Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ukraine/Archive 3

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

This now has its own article at Dnepropetrovsk maniacs. One problem that has been encountered is the lack of English language news sourcing, with most of the media coverage in Russian. If you are proficient in this area, please could you have a look at the article to check for any inaccuracies, spelling mistakes etc. Also, there is a need to ensure that graphic content is not added to the article (see the talk page). Please could you add this article to your watchlist and monitor the situation for Wikipedia. Thanks, --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:36, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Please everyone see this discussion here Talk:Kaharlytskyi Raion. Is it "Raion" or "raion"? Gryffindor (talk) 21:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok... following the conversation with User:Reinyday, I believe maybe we should all move it to capitalised. If no one objects I will start doing that soon. Gryffindor (talk) 17:43, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

In the pages I have edited we normally use it as caps in all the page headers, but as per wiki naming conventions.

On the page about raions it states someof them as example, and they are in caps whereas when talking about the word raion it is lower case.

If you are creating a page for the raion of Stryi, for example :-

The title of the article would be "Stryi Raion".

In the article it would be the "the raion of Stryi was created..." and "there are other raions that border the Stryi Raion, these are.."

Normally it is the project "Projext_xxx" that determines the conventions for things such as this, in this case Project Ukraine !

you can see these also:-

Wikipedia:Resolving_placename_conflicts

Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(city_names)

Wikipedia:Naming_conventions

Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(places)

--Chaosdruid (talk) 20:38, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I just checked Chicago manual, provinces etc. should all be written capitalised if the name is in front. [1]. So it's "New York City" but "the city of New York", just like "Jiangxi Province", etc. Gryffindor (talk) 11:42, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi all

I have just spent a few hours proofreading Lviv

There were a few major problems with the first section, two paragraphs saying almost exactly the same thing, which I merged

Also there were lots of grammatical errors and lots of broken links most of which were not fixable so I removed the [
There were some which i fixed by linking to correct pages though !

Can someone please have a look at it to check my edits !!

thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 19:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Resolved

Ukrainian Sich Riflemen and Sich Riflemen seem to be extensions of the same unit. Can/should they be merged? Further, there is a Ukrainian Sich Scouting organization, does anyone have any information or a website for them? Thank you! Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 12:52, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

They are seperate units at different times and of different functions

"Ukrainian Sich riflemen" (1914-1920)refers to a unit of the Hungarian army

"Sich riflemen" (1917-1919)refers to events when some of the the unit went to Kyiv and started a different group by absorbing local fighters and the youth organisation

I hope this helps to clear up the difference :¬)

Links to scouting movement in Ukraine - There are several pages referring to scout movements in Ukraine, Ukrainian_Plast,National_Organization_of_Scouts_of_Ukraine and Scouting_in_Ukraine

--Chaosdruid (talk) 16:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Those articles are mine, I wrote them. "Sich" Scouting is one of the three component parts of the new federation, and we can't find anything about them, hence my search/query. Can you read Ukrainian and find a website or something for them? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 02:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I am a little upset that you have removed the resolved tag, please can you explain exactly why you did this. You asked "can these two Sich pages be merged" and that clearly has been resolved.

As for your other question, I think it might be best if you tried to ask the Plast themselves, or members of your Project Scouting

It seems to me that you have removed the resolved tag as we have not answered your question on the Sich scouting movement. Clearly the Sich articles that you showed interest in are not to do with the scouting movement. You also have the three articles on scouting in Ukraine so I am a little confused as to exactly it is that you require help with.

There were many more than 3 components of Plast when it was formed, and the articles are not really yours, you may have written much of the material, but many people have contributed to them and ownership is not something Wikiworld condones, an article is "owned" by everyone.

The reference in the article "a national camp in their training and camping centre Plastova Sich in Canada.[12] Oleksander Tysovsky took part in this camp." - simply put this means they called their camp "the Plast fortress"

The only mention I can find on Sich scouts is the mention in the letter introducing the Plast merge in 1996[2], where it says "Many groups, such as scouts of Dnipropetrowsk (Skif), Perekop (in Crimea), "Chysta Krynytsia", "Sich", etc have now formally or informally joined the Plast organization."

Chysta Krynytsia means Crystal well, Perekop is an area of the Crimea, Dnipropetrowsk is an area of Ukraine , and it seems to me that these titles are only for the individual groups of scouts of the PLast, like naming them "the Tiger troop" or "the Founding Fathers troop" or "the Minutemen troop".

I am sure that if anyone here can help you, they will.

thanks--Chaosdruid (talk) 05:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Then should I start a fresh topic here on "Sich" Scouting, separate from "Plast", so that you will not be upset I removed the tag? Being so publicly upset instead of just asking me privately and assuming good faith was surprising, and frankly, quite heavy handed. I do not want to believe you are that kind of editor, as helpful as you seem otherwise. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 05:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi all

Chris - Kintetsubuffalo, needs help with finding information on SICH, one of the modern scouting organisations that formed NOSU to try and make it into the International scouts organisation :-

"The World Scout Bureau has received an application for membership of the World Organization from the National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine (NOSU)."

He will most likely need help from Ukranian speaking people, I thought it might make a good project for one of the older children to research ??

If you need any more info from him - please contact him at Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk

thanks --Chaosdruid (talk) 06:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for this! Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 07:09, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I initiated a vote to who will replace Nestor Makhno in the infobox picture in the article Ukrainians, please join in at Talk:Ukrainians! — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

A lot of fine arts articles mention something called the "Kiev Museum of Russian Art" but we have no article for it. Is there really a museum in Ukraine by this name? Is it devoted to East Slavic art in general or Great Russian art in particular? Is it possible this is a old name for one of Kiev's current museums? The National Art Museum of Ukraine perhaps? --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 23:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

According to The Bradt city guide of Kyiv it does exist and is located at Tereschenkivska 9, but I have never been there... You can call them up at 044 224 6218 :) — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:41, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:52, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

hello. i was reading the article about Lvov and i have a question: shouldn't the article use the name Lwów for the time during which the city was part of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth and later of the second Polish republic similarly to how the Wrocław article uses the name Breslau for the period the city was part of Germany? what are wikipedia rules and standards in that regard? Loosmark (talk) 16:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Долучайтеся до обговорення Статуту організації «Вікімедіа-Україна». Обговорення тут.--Anatoliy (Talk) 13:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi. On the Ukrainian Insurgent Army article, we are having an issue in regards to defining soviet control of Ukraine in the 40's when they pushed the Nazis out, as either "re-occupation" (or another neutral term) or "liberation". Please help on this one. Thanks.--Lvivske (talk) 18:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The very fact that it was the Soviet army and not the Ukrainian army implies occupation. When one also considers the fact that the Soviet army spoke Russian and not Ukrainian, it also adds credulance to the term occupation. Ukrainians will consider it occupation as it was not previously part of the Soviet Union, therefore it cannot be "liberated". Soviets will however stick by the term liberated. Bandurist (talk) 01:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunalely you are incorrect. USSR ANNEXED the territories in question, and the annexed territories are technically liberated, not reoccupied, regardless of the Galicians'opinion apropos.Galassi (talk) 02:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It was the "unification" of Western Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine. UeArtemis (talk) 09:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

the Talk:Ukrainian Insurgent Army has become a very long debate about this topic — most of the debate is emotional and subjective. My suggestion is to separate control of territory, from control of people. One is based on an established event (fact of history), the second one is based on people's feelings about the event. The definition of 'liberate' pertains more to people (and less to territory): "to give liberty to; make free", so one would ask whether people were in bondage under the Nazis (probably yes), and whether Soviet control made these people 'free' (for a significant no. of people, probably not). If we are talking only about territory, then I think "gained" or "regained control of the territory" is better. Ultimately we are talking about control of territory — if we are talking about whether the locals (or historians) thought of this as 'liberation' or 'occupation, which are subjective terms, then the debate will go on and on.... --Pkravchenko (talk) 23:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

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Thanks. — Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 09:48, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be a move to rename all the Raions of Ukraine and remove all the '-(t)skyi' from the names so that they resemble the names of the city centers. It seems agreed upon here, that Raion should be capitalized and I am fine with that.

I perfered the '-(t)skyi' ending since it was already in place. But I would like to see the naming be consistent and since half of them are already renamed I guess it should move forward this way. Unless anyone have any opinions to revert to the '-(t)skyi' ending? Thanks.

Some raions with -s'kyi may be confused, for example: Vasylkivs'kyi Raion (Kiev Oblast) and Vasylkivs'kyi Raion (Dnipropetrovsk Oblast). With «new» scheme of naming they will be Vasylkiv Raion and Vasylkivka Raion. So, why Raion, not District? --Anatoliy (Talk) 23:23, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I think it will be simpler. I just wanted to make sure nobody objected before I update the lists and templates. Raion appears to be the preferred nomenclature. BaomoVW (talk) 02:40, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

For Poland no 'ski/cki' for the powiats=rayons. But renaming rayon => district is not so clear question, for many countries native units names are in use (sums in Mongolia, powiats in Poland etc). Bogomolov.PL (talk) 15:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

For those interested, please see the talk page. Someone is trying to delete portions of the article.--Rubikonchik (talk) 21:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

A proposal has been posted for a contest between all 200 country WikiProjects. We're looking for judges, coordinators, ideas, and feedback.

The Transhumanist 00:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Here was a discussion about Ukrainians definition.

My proposal was to define categories of Ukrainians to be correct with so called ethnic lists.

1) the ethnicity definition (two options):

• smb claims Ukrainian ethnicity or
• smb has Ukrainian ethnic roots (ancestors)

2) The citizenship definition (two options):

• smb has (had) Ukrainian citizenship or
• smb has Ukrainian citizen ancestors

My collegue Lvivske said: "I don't think the 4th works (smb w/ Ukrainian citizen ancestors) since citizenship is not hereditary...but yeah, I think we should put this discussion up with wikiproject ukraine and get some outside input".

Can we accept some of my proposals? Bogomolov.PL (talk) 06:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I do not count Khrsuschev and Brezhnev as Ukrainians, although without doubt they are. For some reason a lot of Russians consider them as such, yet for Russians Gogol is Russian. Why? Go figure. Why those people need to be Ukrainians, but not Gogol or Chekhov? On the other subject, there are a lot of Ukrainians that live in North America that are either Americans or Canadians, nonetheless they stick to their national principles and try to inherit them into their children. The Russian propoganda today simply labels them as the imperialistic Americans and portrays them as greedy hipocrats:) My point is that maybe it is not even worth to put a claim if it was not identified. However, what valuable, in my opinion, is that to put a simple note which relates the person to our Land. In Latin there couple of definitions in that regard. Something in regard to blood and land similiar to ethnicity and citizenship. Maybe that could be mentioned. On personal note for me Ukrainian citizenship is not as valuable as being Ukrainian by belief and deeds:) For example, who is more Ukrainian Khruschev, Khmelnytskyi, Mazepa, Yaroslav the Wise, or Franko? I apologise for this kalambur and, yea, I support the idea. I think that Ukrainians can be defined as the one who were born to the Ukrainian male parent. Otherwise they either had Ukrainian parent, were born in Ukraine, or claimed to be as such. I know it sounds nationalistic, but only for categorization and historical purposes. As far as the human rights deal goes, I think that any citizen of Ukraine should have the same rights as its native no matter what:) For example, Yanukovych is not Ukrianian, but he is Ukrainian citizen. No Ukrainian would try to enforce a foreign culture. Otherwise how can he be Ukrainian? Why does Ukrainian government need to pay for Russian schools. Why don't the Russian or Belorussian (in regard to Yanukovych and Milevsky) community in Ukraine gather up and come up with some budget that would be able to establish them so much needed number of schools? To contrast Yanukovych let's remember Dontsov. Who is Ukrainian and who is not? How can we put Khruschev right beside Shevchenko, or, maybe, Sosiura, or Petliura? Who is Ukrainian? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

So, collegue Aleksandr Grigoryev, you agree to the first ethnicity options (smb claims Ukrainian ethnicity or smb has Ukrainian ethnic roots) limiting ethnic roots to "the one who were born to the Ukrainian male parent"? Or "they either had Ukrainian parent, were born in Ukraine, or claimed to be as such" with no gender preferences? Bogomolov.PL (talk) 05:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

For the record, I found a biographical source on Brezhnev and he indeed self-identified as a Ukrainian when he was younger.--Львівське (talk) 00:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that Mykola Kostomarov should be called Ukrainian as well. JMO. Jwkozak91 (talk) 22:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi, your help in improvement of this article is welcome!--Rubikonchik (talk) 12:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

User:93.72.171.128 is making some changes lately that seem to be intent to whipe traces of the Cassette Scandal from the Kuchma and Volodymyr Lytvyn articles. Not sure if it is vandalism or bad judgement. — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:37, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I have reviewed Andriyivskyy Descent for GA Sweeps to determine if it still qualifies as a Good Article. In reviewing the article I have found several issues, which I have detailed here. Since the article falls under the scope of this project, I figured you would be interested in contributing to further improve the article. Please comment there to help the article maintain its GA status. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 03:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The UPA and Volyn Massacre articles are in pretty annoying edit wars now due to Polish editors trying to bring heavy bias to the articles. Anyone interested in these topics, please help and swing by the talk pages?

Also, one (well, 5 of them) have ganged up and and put me up for enforcement (here because I'm causing them so much grief. Could a admin here swing by and help a guy out? Thanks --Львівське (talk) 00:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Similar things are happening on Władysław Siemaszko (lawyer) and Ewa Siemaszko (engineer) who are not really historians at all but are the ones who are fanning the Polish genocide debate. (Polish wiki - Władysław Siemaszko (ur. 1919 w Kurytybie) - polski prawnik, badacz tragedii polskiej ludności na Wołyniu w okresie II wojny światowej.) Worthy of viewing is this site to see where they are coming from. http://kresowianie.prv.pl/ Bandurist (talk) 03:26, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi everyone! I think I have substantially improved this article. I removed the stub tag, but I understand it is still not reflected here. What's the way around this? Do you know? Regards, Invest in knowledge (talk) 14:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe (it's better to) ask someone from Wikipedia:WikiProject Business for advice? I doubt many of us know anything about stock markets... — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 15:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Does Zlatopol properly fit in Category:Cities in Ukraine? I don't understand whether this and other Settlements in Ukraine subcategories are done by official designation (like USA communities, which are subcategorized by their municipal status) or if there's no real difference. 24.93.116.128 (talk) 02:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

This stetl formally is a part of Novomyrhorod city. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 10:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)