Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains in Japan/Archive 7

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Archive 1

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Archive 7

The Hyperdia and Jorudan train route and fare calculators need to go somewhere high-up on the Trains_in_Japan wiki page. May I query where? ≈ Quark2 ≈ (talk) 00:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

What would make that link more appropriate for an encyclopedia than for a travel guide such as WikiTravel? Fg2 (talk) 00:41, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I would like to ask fellow editors' opinions on whether Shin-Matsudo Station should have its name spelled as Shin-Matsudo or as Shim-Matsudo. The spelling within the article was changed to "Shim-Matsudo" by an editor, insisting that this is the correct romanized form that follows the rules of "n becoming m when followed by m". Shim-Matsudo is also the form used by JR East on its station signs and website (something I was already aware of). My argument, however, is that we should not necessarily follow the (in my view misguided) practice used by JR if it results in confusing romanized forms. I have no problem with spellings such as Namba Station and Ippommatsu Station (Saitama) (an article I created myself), but in the case of hyphenated names like Shin-Matsudo and Kaihin-Makuhari (which JR East insists on writing as "Kaihimmakuhari"), I feel that the components should be treated separately. Any comments? --DAJF (talk) 05:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

The English (rōmaji) signage indicates "Shim-Matsudo", so that's what we use for the title of the article. We should have redirects, though, for the Modified Hepburn romanizations. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 08:07, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

The Tokyo City Atlas 3rd edition uses Shin-Matsudo. The Japan related articles Manual of Style says if the official version uses the m then that form should be used, but then goes on to suggest a google search which gives 12900 to the n case and 1540 to the m case. The actual city of Matsudo uses the n form for the locality which is more "official" than how JR names their station. This and English language texts causes me to favour the n form and a redirect from the m form. Alex Sims (talk) 09:54, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Since they are JR stations, how could what a local city calls them be more official than the name given by the company which owns the station? ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Even from a purely linguistic standpoint, such questions are difficult to resolve. Personally, I tend to lean away from "over-phoneticization" (which dictates 'm' in this case). For one thing, the use of phoneticized variants in such a case obscures the fact that the initial morpheme (kanji, if you will) is the same in (e.g.) the names "Shim-Matsudo" and "Shin-Ōsaka". Perhaps those who speak the language already know, and those who don't don't need to know? That's one way of looking at it. Phoneticization also creates asymmetries based on a sort of language bias: what about "Shin-Kawasaki"? (don't know if this is a real place). We would all agree to write this one with 'n', but the sound is not the same 'n' as in "Shin-Tamagawa" (or in Shin-Ōsaka for that matter). It's a sound which has no letter of its own in English (phonetically, it's written [ŋ]), so we fall back to a "default". Why allow this sort of imbalance (inbalance? :-) in our romanization? These are all rhetorical questions, really... the answers will ultimately come from the personal biases of the participants who shout the loudest or have the strongest feelings about it. Those who love Hepburn will probably tend to favor "Shim-", those who prefer kunrei/nippon-shiki (including me) will favor 'n' for all cases. Himatsu Bushi (talk) 20:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I actually prefer modified Hepburn (and generally can't stand kunreishiki), and if I was making the decision for Japan Rail, I'd have them write it "Shin Matsudo" (no hyphen, and with an "n"). However, as the official "English" name which is used on the actual signage at the station, "Shim-Matsudo" is what we use here (with supporting redirects from other romanizations). ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 20:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't arguing, just pointing out some of the linguistic issues. Taking signage as the gold standard and adding redirects seems a perfectly objective, concrete, and therefore reasonable way of dealing with this issue. On the other hand :-), I also think it would be reasonable for WP to take (what I see as) a more linguistically rational, and globally uniform, stance for its main article titles, and add the others as redirects. I would imagine JR probably has a uniform policy for romanization, but I'd bet one could easily find examples of inconsistent romanization among smaller rail companies. I wouldn't be surprised if romanization for many of these is done by asking the nearest person in earshot who is perceived as being good at English, or even by leaving it to the sign-making company. Himatsu Bushi (talk) 21:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Having lived in Japan fr an extended period, I can tell you that JR is not consistent in it's signage. As for the naming here in WP, we have to go with the most commonly used "English" title, and since "Shim-Matsudo" is on all the signs at the station, that's going to be the most commonly used title as that's what most everyone else is going to use. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 21:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I haven't looked thoroughly, but at least Keio lines Fuda Station and some other neighbor stations, the geo coordinate data are off by several hundred meters on the Google Maps. I wonder they're old 日本測地系, rather than WGS84? [1] --Fukumoto (talk) 17:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

On our page on Thomas Blake Glover it mentions he was responsible in 1865 for bringing the first steam railway locomotive called "Iron Duke" to Japan which he demonstrated on a short track at Oura in Nagasaki. There was a picture of this "Iron Duku" (sic) on a TV program. Does anyone know anything about this engine - Japan's first steam locomotive? And here: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:YNI0_HyaWXIJ:www.bxscience.edu/ourpages/auto/2008/12/1/44529561/japan%2520and%2520industrialization.pdf+"Iron+duku"+Nagasaki&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk "A lo-comotive named the ‘Iron Duku’ was imported to pro-vide the power. This name was presumably a Japanicised form of the ‘Iron Duke’ of the Great West-ern Railway in England, of which it seems to have been a replica" (Msrasnw (talk) 00:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC))

I have added a reference source which gives 1868 as the date for this, although it doesn't explicitly mention the name "Iron Duke". --DAJF (talk) 10:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm wondering if this project might work better as a joint task force of WikiProject Japan and WikiProject Trains. This would allow this project to take advantage of the recent changes in the WP:JA talk page banner, too. Thoughts? ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 21:14, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wikiproject Trains banner already has a place whereby "Wikiproject Trains in Japan" can be selected as a task force, similar to the methodology used in Wikiproject Mil-Hist, with its task force on Japanese military history. Using both banners need not be mutually exclusive, as multiple banners are commonly used on many articles. --MChew (talk) 07:18, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

What is the advantage of this project becoming a joint task force versus a separate wikiproject? Indeed what is the difference? There is no problem having multiple banners Dex1337 (talk) 07:30, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

It was just a thought, no need to get defensive. I never said there was a problem having multiple banners. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 09:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if I sounded defensive, I was actually just asking what the advantages and disadvantages are. I do not really know what the difference is between a task force and a wikiproject is - can you elucidate? Dex1337 (talk) 11:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

One of the main benefits of a task force is that it can take advantage of the larger pool of editors which work in larger projects such as WP:JA and WP:TRAINS. It may even help bring in editors which weren't aware of a focused project like this. As far as how things work, people already working with the project will notice little (if any) difference in how they go about working on articles. That's just off the top of my head. There may be other advantages as well. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 23:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the collapsed templates under Rail transport in Japan#External links, it's clear that the Shinkansen template is different from all the others. Does anyone understand templates well enough to match it to the rest? Fg2 (talk) 06:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to Bamse for matching the colors. Fg2 (talk) 10:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I moved the article "Oshiya" to Pusher (railway station attendant) according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). Also removed some material about what pushers do when they're not pushing (they're railway station attendants, so it's normal for them to do that). Added a {{cn}} (citation-needed) template for the statement "pushers are often stationed on platforms when trains are at around 120% capacity." And I mostly removed the word oshiya from the article, leaving it in once (not in the lead). The article needs further attention, as DAJF pointed out in this edit summary. Fg2 (talk) 22:44, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Ujiyamada Station (found) could use some loving care. Fg2 (talk) 10:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I have tried to add a more recent and better top image from Wikipedia Commons to the infobox in the E259 series article, but for some reason it refuses to display properly (see diff). I cannot for the life of me see what the problem is. Could someone else please have a look, and if possible replace the current image with this better image from Commons? Thanks. --DAJF (talk) 02:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

DAJF, I got it. The original image was huge, 2400x1600px. I scaled it down to the size of the previous one, 1920x1280. It works now.--Chrsschm (talk) 02:50, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! That seems to have fixed it now. Great. --DAJF (talk) 03:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I've been working on adding route maps to some line articles (completed three so far). However, I'm having a formatting issue with {{San'in Main Line map}} where the alignment is messed up if one or more of the collapsed sections is opened (not all the sections do this, only some of them). Is there anyone here more familiar with these extremely complicated route maps who could take a look at it. You can see it used in the San'in Main Line article, too (in the infobox). ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 10:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Regrets -- I'm clueless about those route maps, even without the collapsing-section problem. Fg2 (talk) 11:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Nihonjoe, I thought I had made some progress on it, then after committing the changes I see that there are still problems. I'm not sure that the code behind these route maps is really mature yet. Shall we just ask on the talk page for Route Diagrams?--Chrsschm (talk) 02:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure, because whatever you did, it messed up the San'in Main Line article. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 02:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Undone.--Chrsschm (talk) 03:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate you trying to fix things, though. Hopefully someone at the route diagram group will be able to figure things out. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 06:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The following stub templates have been created and should be used when applicable:

• {{Japan-rail-company-stub}}
• {{Japan-rail-line-stub}}

Please let me know if you have any questions. ···日本穣^? · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:39, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

There is also {{Japan-cable-line-stub}} for ropeways and funiculars. ···日本穣^? · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The CONT icons are being renamed, please see User:Chrisbot for more details. In the mean time all users are asked to use the icon names that are shown at User:Chrisbot/Work status even if it seems illogical. They will change from time to time so please check every time before you use a CONT icon. It is in the good cooperation of all that this will work out. ChrisDHDR 16:08, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

User:DAJF is renaming many articles about Japanese freight stations to the names with the phrase "Freight Terminal" and without "Station." For example Tokyo Freight Terminal, Hōfu Freight Terminal and Higashi-Kokura Freight Terminal. I think this is an act to add a new line to our naming convention that requires everyone's attention. --Sushiya (talk) 13:56, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, "Terminal" is much more common for freight stops (in English), so I think it should be fine. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I would like to draw everyone's attention to the discussion going on at Talk:Machida Station (Odakyu) regarding merging the Machida Station (Odakyu) and Machida Station (JR East) articles. Your comments would be appreciated. armagebedar (talk) 03:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

In the article about the JR Freight Class DF200, its tractive effort is given as 33,390 kgf - This appears to be considerably more than all of JRF's electric locomotives have (according to their wikipedia articles). Even more than such powerful machines as the EF200, EF210, EH200 or EH500 (allowing for the fact that some are notated in kgf others in kN)... Is this really true? I find it a little hard to believe, but I'm no expert.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.141.43.144 (talk) 22:01, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

According to some magazine articles, 33,390 kgf (327.4 kN) is the maximum tractive effort of DF200 while, for instance, 271.8 kN is the rated tractive effort of EH200. --Sushiya (talk) 23:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Even the rated number is about as powerful as the one given for the EH200 (which is the strongest electric JR Freight loco I could find, according to EN & JA Wiki). Impressive. Any idea if the values for the mentioned electric locomotives are maximum or rated? (Comparing these, my guess would be rated...) Would be nice to have comparable numbers all around, wouldn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.141.71.103 (talk) 23:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

There is currently an RFC taking place concerning the romanization of English loanwords in the Japanese language. Input from members of this WikiProject is requested to form a consensus.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 20:41, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The Ibusuki Makurazaki Line article has been marked as coordinates-missing by Anomebot2. I looked at a few other line articles in English and Japanese, I don't see any with coordinates. Should this tag just be removed, or can coordinates be added for one of the line's major stations, its midpoint, etc? --Chrsschm (talk) 18:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

There's a proposal for Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Tokyo Subway task force at the WikiProject Council. 65.93.14.196 (talk) 05:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Today four stations opened in Nagoya, and I created pages for each of them, but one of them happens to have the same name in Roman letters (not kanji) as another station in Kobe, namely Kamisawa Station. I created Nagoya's station under Kamisawa Station (Aichi). I guess there should be a disambiguation page under Kamisawa Station or a link somewhere, but I don't know how to do it so I'm asking if there's anyone else who can handle it. Thanks! haplo (talk) 17:52, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for creating the articles for new stations. I moved Kamisawa Station to Kamisawa Station (Hyōgo) and, after editing some links by cheking Special:WhatLinksHere/Kamisawa Station, changed Kamisawa Station article into a disambiguation page. This is what everyone can do as a standard user. --Sushiya (talk) 15:43, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Per discussion at WT:TWP, new track gauge categories have been created. Japanese railways of 3' 6" / 1,067 mm gauge fall under Category:Japanese gauge railways. If there are any Standard gauge railways, they will fall under Category:Standard gauge railways in Japan. These categories need populating. Mjroots (talk) 08:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I missed this note, but I'm afraid Category:Japanese gauge railways is a bizarrely named non-starter. (I thought it was a hastily created typo for "Japanese narrow gauge railways" when I first saw it.) I have created and started populating Category:1067 mm gauge railways in Japan instead, as railway gauges are invariably specified using metric notation in Japan, regardless of whether they are originally derived from imperial gauges. --DAJF (talk) 02:42, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I've been doing some work on trains in Fukushima City. The existing articles for both the Abukuma Express and the Iizaka Line refer to the companies that own/operate them by the romanization of their Japanese names ("Abukuma Kyūkō Railway Company" and "Fukushima Kōtsū"), however from looking at the websites of both of these companies (here and here) you'll see that they have English names listed (AbukumaExpress.,ltd and Fukushima Transportation, Inc.).

Am I correct in thinking that it would be preferable to change all in-article references to the official English names instead of the romanizations? Also, would the preferred name for "AbukumaExpress.,ltd" be "Abukuma Express"? After all, who am I to play god with spaces in names?

Lastly, assuming that changing the names to the official English names is the preferable course of action, is there a better way to go about it than to go and find/replace everything manually? I don't really know much about bots and such. -- purplepumpkins (talk) 14:27, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

If they have an official English name, we should use it (minus the "Inc" and "Ltd"). ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 00:58, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Do you know of a way to automate the change so I don't have to go through and do it all manually? -- purplepumpkins (talk) 01:16, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I ended up just doing it manually, so no worries. Thanks. -- purplepumpkins (talk) 03:16, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

To answer your question: no, other than requesting a bot to do it, but that would likely take longer than just changing the name manually (as you've already done). ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:59, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

As of today, there are only 28 Japanese railway station articles left that need geocodes: see User:The Anome/Japan railway stations missing coordinates for the list. Unfortunately, most of these are disused stations, but they are still of historical interest, and worth geocoding. Would any railway enthusiasts with Japanese knowledge be interested in filling in the coordinates for these last few articles? -- The Anome (talk) 23:43, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I added a couple useful links on the talk page. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:59, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

There's a discussion of romanization of names (including station names) here. LittleBen (talk) 12:42, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I would like to know if some free data source has been used to create all the stubs for the trains stations. I wanted to enrich the stations names in OpenStreetMap (especially the romaji names) and I did an automatic import script from Wikipedia, but in fact I cannot use it because of a license compatibility issue (what a pity). So if there is a free source, I could also use it. --Fabiensk (talk) 08:27, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

The names of the station are freely available from multiple sources, mostly Japanese. Since the names can't be copyrighted, there shouldn't be any problem using the information on Wikipedia regarding the names. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 09:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

On the Openstreetmap mailing list, someone talked me about the Database Directive which is applied in the European Union and protects the collections of data. As I plan to do a non-private use (automated extract), I guess it is forbidden (but any other interpretation is welcome) :-( Anyway, I am still interested in any source that has been used to create the article stubs. --Fabiensk (talk) 19:50, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi,. Can I ask if anyone here knows how the "noriire" system in Japan works? Is it just 2 different companies sharing trainsets and operations are handled independently on their respective infrastructures or is it an infrastructure access contract? I can't find any information about it on Wikipedia or other sites. Any information or if you can point me to a website which explains this, it would be very much appreciated. Thanks. 138.253.210.27 (talk) 14:08, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Japanese Wikipedia has ja:直通運転. According to the article, when a train goes to another company's line, the company that owns the train lends it to the other company and the other company operates the train. Note that it is currently unsourced and tagged as citation needed. --Kusunose 03:52, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi everyone, I live in Tokushima and was taking pictures of the local train stations. Is there any guidelines I should follow for the station pictures. Thanks in advanced. --Jamo58 (talk) 06:05, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The pictures should be in focus, show useful information (a picture of the front of the station, the different platforms, a view in both directions from the platforms, stuff like that. Look at the other train station articles with pictures and see what they have. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:31, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

One more question, if the japanese article of the same station already has a picture, and its labeled for free use can i just paste that picture into the english article as well. Thanks --Jamo58 (talk) 06:24, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Only if it's hosted on Commons. If it's just on the Japanese Wikipedia, then we will need to move it over to Commons prior to adding it to the article here. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:31, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

How do I move it to commons. Do I just need to save the file and then re upload it or is there a shortcut? The pictures all have the GNU Free Documentation License so it's ok to use them but they are all on just the Japanese Wikipedia. Thanks again. Sorry for being a noob.

--Jamo58 (talk) 23:58, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

WP:TRANSFER has a guide on transferring to commons. Feel free to ask for help :-) Alex Sims (talk) 01:38, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I noticed this discussion rather late which is of importance Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Train_stations_.26_subway_stations_and_precision. Simply south...... cooking letters for just 7 years 15:25, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

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Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

My limping translation of the Japanese article is seriously in need of expert attention, thanks. Mangoe (talk) 22:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

The Aoshima Station article has been nominated for deletion. It would be greatly appreciated if an editor were to expand the article. There is a corresponding article on ja-Wiki which could be used for this purpose. Mjroots (talk) 23:50, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

I found two articles relating to the same line, could someone expert on Japan Railways correct or explain that?

• Tsugaru-Kaikyō Line

• Kaikyō Line

Coccodrillo (talk) 09:32, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Please come participate in the discussion on changing Romanization in the Japan-related manual of style. Thanks! ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:20, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Just a note to page watchers that Template:Infobox Japan station has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox station; the discussion is here. Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 14:34, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

This incident http://www.torontosun.com/2015/06/01/body-of-elderly-woman-found-stuffed-in-suitcase-at-tokyo-train-station may be worth mentioning in the article about the railway company or one about the station itself. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 16:08, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

The Asahi Shinbun is reporting that Koboro station will close at or after the end of October 2015/ Mjroots (talk) 20:44, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

How about changing "news"?.--Takahiro4 (talk) 03:39, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Please be more clear. What do you mean? Do you have an example article? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 05:57, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

See WT:WikiProject Trains#SEK Class Ζδ

There are a number of new articles which are very badly written. They need review and will otherwise soon be deleted. If anyone from this project can help, it would be appreciated. Thanks, Andy Dingley (talk) 16:56, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Ōtemachi Station (Tokyo) to be moved to Otemachi Station (Tokyo). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 23:15, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

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Dear WikiProject members, I have proposed that the Seikan Tunnel Tappi Shakō Line page be merged into the Kaikyō Line page. Please participate in the discussion if you would like to give a say. Oshawott 12 ==()== Talk to me! 02:15, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Many non-Japanese pages appear in the "pages needing attention" section. Is there anything we can do to have these pages removed? There is a note that it is bot curated? Paullb (talk) 01:08, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

A fairly serious accident has occurred in Yokohama today. I've added it the the list of rail accidents (2010–present), but it is possibly serious enough to warrant an article. Japanese speaking editors will have the advantage in sourcing and referencing an article. Mjroots (talk) 13:06, 5 September 2019 (UTC)