Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Scotland national football team hat-tricks/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 19:12, 10 May 2011 [1].

List of Scotland national football team hat-tricks

List of Scotland national football team hat-tricks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Miyagawa (talk) 18:52, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

After randomly coming across the FL List of England national football team hat-tricks, I checked to see if there was a Scottish article and there was - I've changed it to match the formatting on the England FL, expanded the prose section and added the conceded section. Hit a problem image-wise as there simply doesn't seem to be much in the way of free use images available for Scottish players listed (in fact, there isn't a single one). Miyagawa (talk) 18:52, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose until a few issues are solved:

  • no reference provided that these 29 are the only 3 or more goals scored
  • same for those scored against (I am suspicious that the list is so short)
  • There isn't a specific reference to say either - essentially I went through the entire list of Scotland results to double check and collate the article. I've added a general reference for the index page of the website, but in order to place an inline citation for either of those comments on the tables below, I'd have to insert 21 seperate citations for each (as the information is spread across 21 seperate webpages). Miyagawa (talk) 12:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've implemented a similar solution. Miyagawa (talk) 22:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • color scheme needed for 4 goals and for the instance where Scotland actually lost (really rare to score a hat-trick and still lose
  • Its only happened once, in the 3-4 defeat against Norway on 4 June 1963. Would a note be more appropriate as it's a single occurance? Miyagawa (talk) 12:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just a quick note as I realized I missed it - I've added a color scheme for 4 goals. Miyagawa (talk) 12:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • a hat-trick is 3 goals, not more

Nergaal (talk) 20:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:32, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Caption - should be Denis Law not Dennis.
  • "scored three sets of hat-tricks" don't think you need "sets of".
  • "in a match has been four" really it's "in a match is four".
  • Above three are fixed. Miyagawa (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "although some sources" the two sources reffing this are the SFA and RSSSF, can you explain why this shouldn't be classed as correct?
  • The RSSSF is the one that states that some sources specifically, while the SFA website is one of those sources. RSSSF has him listed as four goals, not five. Miyagawa (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Robert Smyth McColl, Denis Law and Hughie Gallacher " no need to repeat Denis or Hughie here.
  • "with three sets of hat-tricks each" again, no need for "sets of".
  • "in a Friendly against Wales" no need for capital F here.
  • United States national football team is a dab link.
  • Above four are fixed. Miyagawa (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would prefer to see both tables have consistent column widths.
  • I've run a script on the references to ensure they meet WP:DASH (i.e. replacing spaced hyphens with en-dashes per this edit).

The Rambling Man (talk) 09:26, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for your comments, will sort out the column width issue shortly. Credit has to go to Jmorrison230582 who did a series of copy edits on the article which fixed all but one of those issues before I could. Miyagawa (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Have now formatted the tables so that they both match. Miyagawa (talk) 18:38, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:07, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "until the 2003/2004 season...". I believe the MoS recommends against the use of slashes when possible. The en dash usually works well for season ranges.
  • The non-free image needs to go. It adds nothing to the article that a free photo of one of the players couldn't provide. Even if there aren't any free photos possible, I don't think the purpose given of "illustration" is sufficient.
  • Check the sorting in the Results column in the first table. I'm getting single- and double-digit scores sorting separately. This may require the use of a sort template to fix.
  • Note b: Year ranges should have en dashes. Even in notes, style should be maintained.
  • Note c: Showing up on the same line as the end of note b for me. Maybe this could be avoided by using bullet points? Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:18, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think I've fixed those points. Removed the image, realized it was a coding error causing note c to attach itself to note b. Fixed the sorting in the results column - found that it was due to a lack of preceding zeros for the single digit results. Let me know if any of these issues are recurring for you and I'll find another way to resolve them. Miyagawa (talk) 08:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 08:38, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments:
  • The information in note A is essential enough that it should be presented before the table.
  • It is generally less reader friendly to produce the key after than before the table. People need to know the legend before they read the map.
  • I would recommend making a short introduction to the table which contains the note about war-year matches, the content in note A and the yellow issue.
  • If the content in note D sourced in any way beyond grooming through the ten RSSSF links?
  • Any possibilities of free images? For instances any person to have made a hat-trick.
  • Refs are normally center-aligned.
  • I believe the Dutchman should be sorted as 'Nistelrooy' rather than 'van Nistelrooy'.
  • Should not the RSSSF links be dated?

Arsenikk (talk) 20:46, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think I've addressed these issues now. The sorting has been fixed for Nistlerooy and the key moved above the tables. Ref columns are now center aligned and moved the info from note A to above each table. There are no free use images of any of the goal scorers as far as I can find, I did have a fair use image but it was requested to be removed by an earlier reviewer. The content in note D (now C) isn't available in a single link - those ten links list every Scotland football result and are to represent that there are no missing hat tricks. Miyagawa (talk) 23:51, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, I just replaced the mess of references in the lead with a note tag linking to note A (formerly B), as it was previously referenced by six different references and just looked messy. Miyagawa (talk) 23:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I should also note that there are no free use images of Scottish goalscorers. There are images avaliable for a couple of players who scored hat tricks against Scotland, but I thought it was better to wait until a free use image of a Scottish goalscorer became avaliable. Miyagawa (talk) 13:00, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Flickr kind of has an image of Law which meets our licence requirements for inclusion, worth a thought? The Rambling Man (talk) 14:15, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • After looking at that I checked Commons and found other shots of the same statue - I created a head shot of Law and added it to the article. Miyagawa (talk) 21:03, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is normal to use straight text (and not indented italics) for information about what the list contains. Indented italics is intended for navigation between articles. Placing the yellow box in its own section looks rather odd, perhaps it is better to move it somewhere else; for instance if the key is provided before the first table, it would understood that it also applies for the second table. Arsenikk (talk) 21:53, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment mildly trouble by the use of yellow alone to denote "more than a hat-trick scored" (according to the key). WP:ACCESS needs a symbol plus a colour if you're going to use a colour. I know the table is reasonable because it has 4 or 5 as well as yellow, but the key doesn't... Other thing, which is well picky is that sorting by result in the Scotland hat-trick table should, in my mind sort "best result first" or "worst result first"? So when listed in descending "best results", I would expect to see 8–0 come before 8–1 and that to come before 8–2. It's not a big issue, but one which would I would delight in being sorted (no pun intended) if possible. Oh, and ref 2 could use an accessdate... The Rambling Man (talk) 14:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well... easy stuff first. Added the access date, and changed the key to include a symbol. Now the hard - after trying a few different methods and searching a lot of existing lists for a way to do it, ended up throwing out the rulebook and essentially used a sort template to sort the column manually. But it works. :) I put the single loss at the bottom of the list. Miyagawa (talk) 20:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support brilliant. I love working with editors like Miyagawa. Considerate, grateful, attentive, all good. Nice work. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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