Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yuki Asuka
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was No consensus, defaulting to Keep. Black Kite 23:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yuki Asuka
- Yuki Asuka (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
A Japanese porno actress. As a porno actress she doesn't appear to be particularly notable. The only potentially notable thing about her is having been arrested, which is not enough for being notable per notability guidelines for porno. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 22:32, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. Dekkappai (talk) 22:34, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep She may not be notable as a porno actress but she is notable per WP:V and WP:BLP with regards to this upi newspaper source I would recommend adding the original Yokohama Shinbun Japase newspaper source. Igor Berger (talk) 22:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: That's just one count of indecent exposure. We can't turn every petty criminal into a notable personality. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 22:56, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- How many counts does a person need to have to be notable? Is the question not that the person should be notable per sources? Do they have to be a major porn star or an important law violator to be notable? We should apply WP:WEIGHT and get some commentary from WP:BLP project not just porn star project. What do you think?
- Comment: That's just one count of indecent exposure. We can't turn every petty criminal into a notable personality. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 22:56, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Every petty criminal isn't notable. Mangoe (talk) 23:00, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep I think the nominator is correct that she is not extremely notable as a porn star (note, however, that she does appear in a video reviewed by AVN-- a U.S. publication that does not specialize in the Japanese industry.) It's her arrest, and its coverage that makes her notable. I don't think the "every petty criminal" argument holds water. Not "every petty criminal"'s arrest makes international news. This person's arrest highlighted an interesting and largely hidden aspect of the Japanese adult entertainment industry-- shooting videos in public for reactions from unsuspecting bystanders. That's why she made international news, and that's why she's notable. (Director Hisayasu Sato's Mibojin Hentai Jigoku made notable use of this technique, which, since it is illegal, is widely denied by the industry. See the All Movie Guide description[1]) Dekkappai (talk) 23:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with what you said. I have been living in Japan for 17 years now, and while in America such an incident would not make big news, in Japan it is a Taboo and against the law to be seen nude on a public street and that is why this made International news. Pretty much it is like Larry Flint and the Hustler magazine controversy made Japanese. I think even deleting it maybe against freedom of speach and a violation of First Amendment because this can be seen as a protest in Japanese society, but I am not sure. A lawyer needs to determine this. Igor Berger (talk) 00:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I wouldn't put much stock in AVN reviews as a reliable source to establish notability. AVN is not an independent reviewer of movies because they take in ads for the movies they review (and this includes the American distributors of Japanese movies). Besides the mention of Yuki is brief and not significant coverage under WP:Notability. As for the nude arrest, are there any more articles that are intellectually independent of the UPI article? Oh and Igor, the First Amendment applies to American government censorship, not wikipedia.Vinh1313 (talk) 02:27, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with what you said. I have been living in Japan for 17 years now, and while in America such an incident would not make big news, in Japan it is a Taboo and against the law to be seen nude on a public street and that is why this made International news. Pretty much it is like Larry Flint and the Hustler magazine controversy made Japanese. I think even deleting it maybe against freedom of speach and a violation of First Amendment because this can be seen as a protest in Japanese society, but I am not sure. A lawyer needs to determine this. Igor Berger (talk) 00:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —Dekkappai (talk) 23:38, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, she's notable for neither her pornographic appearances (per WP:BIO) nor her arrest (per WP:ONEEVENT). Jfire (talk) 23:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per the rationale provided by Dekkappai. Once again I see that ONEEVENT is being misapplied. RFerreira (talk) 00:08, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- keep-notability is established as there is also an article at ja:結城明日香. Two languages means she's not a flash in the pan. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 02:27, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you show us the video evidence for examination? Just joking! Thanx for the Japanese link. Igor Berger (talk) 03:18, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Just a comment: Two and even more languages just means that hard-working and well-meaning editors translated the article. It is not by itself an indicator of notability. I do tend to agree with other interesting comments about the notability of public nudity in Japan. ---Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:15, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I'd like to understand the damn thing before evaluating its chances. We now read that Yūki got in trouble for walking around Yokohama naked, and that she and Inoue also had filmed Shimizu walking naked through Chinatown. Yūki's birth name is Arisa Shimuzu [sic]. I'd guess that "Chinatown" refers to part of Yokohama. So who walked where, and who was arrested? Though even if this is sorted out it seems little more than a small news story at this point. Incidentally, photographing nude women in Japanese urban spaces (and exhibiting the results) has a history that's at least 49 years old. -- Hoary (talk) 04:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Looks like so, but he did not get arrested for that, it just caused quite a stir. Being arested in Japan for nudity in a public place is big news, and it goes internationally. Going against Japanese hivethink is turbulent and discrespectful to the society. Maybe you have heard a saying in Japan, if a nail is sticking out of a plank of wood hammer it in to be equal with others. So naked AVI shoot in Yokohama Chinatown is very big news. I would not be supprised if it hit prime time telivision like NHK and Asahi TV. Anyone who knows how to write Japanese, which I do not, do a search for the article story in Google Japan and see what you get. Igor Berger (talk) 04:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Igor, you seem to be both confidently asserting that this was big news and implying that you don't actually know if it was big news. Offhand, I don't know: I'll happily google for it but not as long as I'm using a work computer. And if it is notable then I don't see why it's more significant for Yūki/Yuki/Shimizu/Shimuzu than for Inoue, and anyway WP:ONEEVENT kicks in. Meanwhile, it seems as if the whole article is taken from this short and slapdash UPI story, complete with typo (though I'm not alleging a copyvio). -- Hoary (talk) 06:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What I am recommending that someone who reads Japanese should Google this in Google Japan, and see if there was a big news in Japanese media about this event. Although this was one event there might have been over actions by association that have not been brought to light yet. After 17 years in Japan I speak Japanese but unfortunately cannot read it. But would not one event rule apply to a certain news story that has no follow up or consequences? For example a metiorite falls in Peru has an article even it is one event, 2007_Peruvian_meteorite_event! I mean I hope they do not have metiorites falling down on them every year. Why does it have an article? Could it be atributed to that the local people got sick from exposure to toxic fumes, those implying cause and effect. So, a follow up from that event. I think the naked in public place arrest is more than one event scenario. Igor Berger (talk) 07:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, I'll try to google for it later, unless somebody beats me to it. This meteorite seems to have made a big crater, and in some way made hundreds of people ill (or possibly induced quasi-hysteria and imagined illness in hundreds of people); somehow I'd have thought that this was more significant than having an actress get her tits out in a Yokohama street (much though I'd have loved to have had a close view the latter when younger and hornier). Or perhaps you're suggesting an article on the history of erotic events and pseudo-events in Japan; my only contribution to that would be a link to the Kijima article (which needs sourcing for its vague assertion of a moral panic). -- Hoary (talk) 07:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Well let's give the actress her WP:DUE. I grant she is not Larry Flynt but then who can match him! Igor Berger (talk) 10:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, I'll try to google for it later, unless somebody beats me to it. This meteorite seems to have made a big crater, and in some way made hundreds of people ill (or possibly induced quasi-hysteria and imagined illness in hundreds of people); somehow I'd have thought that this was more significant than having an actress get her tits out in a Yokohama street (much though I'd have loved to have had a close view the latter when younger and hornier). Or perhaps you're suggesting an article on the history of erotic events and pseudo-events in Japan; my only contribution to that would be a link to the Kijima article (which needs sourcing for its vague assertion of a moral panic). -- Hoary (talk) 07:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- What I am recommending that someone who reads Japanese should Google this in Google Japan, and see if there was a big news in Japanese media about this event. Although this was one event there might have been over actions by association that have not been brought to light yet. After 17 years in Japan I speak Japanese but unfortunately cannot read it. But would not one event rule apply to a certain news story that has no follow up or consequences? For example a metiorite falls in Peru has an article even it is one event, 2007_Peruvian_meteorite_event! I mean I hope they do not have metiorites falling down on them every year. Why does it have an article? Could it be atributed to that the local people got sick from exposure to toxic fumes, those implying cause and effect. So, a follow up from that event. I think the naked in public place arrest is more than one event scenario. Igor Berger (talk) 07:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Igor, you seem to be both confidently asserting that this was big news and implying that you don't actually know if it was big news. Offhand, I don't know: I'll happily google for it but not as long as I'm using a work computer. And if it is notable then I don't see why it's more significant for Yūki/Yuki/Shimizu/Shimuzu than for Inoue, and anyway WP:ONEEVENT kicks in. Meanwhile, it seems as if the whole article is taken from this short and slapdash UPI story, complete with typo (though I'm not alleging a copyvio). -- Hoary (talk) 06:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Looks like so, but he did not get arrested for that, it just caused quite a stir. Being arested in Japan for nudity in a public place is big news, and it goes internationally. Going against Japanese hivethink is turbulent and discrespectful to the society. Maybe you have heard a saying in Japan, if a nail is sticking out of a plank of wood hammer it in to be equal with others. So naked AVI shoot in Yokohama Chinatown is very big news. I would not be supprised if it hit prime time telivision like NHK and Asahi TV. Anyone who knows how to write Japanese, which I do not, do a search for the article story in Google Japan and see what you get. Igor Berger (talk) 04:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment According to journalist and Swedish Tokyo correspondent, Kjell Fornander, five to ten videos are made in the average AV career.[2] Asuka, according to the news article on the arrest, had starred in about 100 at that time. So, by real-world (though, notably, not Wikipedian) standards, she is notable even within the AV field. I don't think public nude photography has been claimed as Ms. Asuka's unique contribution to Japanese society. In fact it's a fairly common sub-genre of the AV industry. But because of its illegality, its existence is routinely denied by the industry. Ms. Asuka's being caught in the act by cell-phone camera is what is notable, and what made international news. Also, I don't think blaming Ms. Asuka for the Yūki/Yuki and Shimizu/Shimuzu mix-ups resulting from Japanese/Wiki orthography and newspaper typos casts any more doubts on her notability than the same would for Toshiro/Toshirō Mifune. Dekkappai (talk) 22:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Dekkappai (and I always love that username), the last part of what you write is some kind of response to something that I wrote. You are of course under no obligation to come up with what I think would be a better response, but I warmly invite you to do so. You clearly think that the article about Yūki/Shimizu is worth preserving (and, presumably, improving). I haven't yet decided if I agree with you, but even if I don't I respect your point of view. However, I'm mystified by what seems to be an imbalance of energies here. Whatever the merits of an article on her, the article as it stands now is awful. Couldn't you -- or somebody else who's written rather energetically on behalf of there being an article -- at least remove the contradictions (real and apparent) that still plague the very first paragraph? -- Hoary (talk) 04:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree the article reads like an advert for the AV model. Should be written more in encyclopedic style and texture. Igor Berger (talk) 05:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I apologize if I sounded a bit sarcastic up there, Hoary. I've seen your input at other AfDs, and do respect your obvious knowledge and opinions also. The typos/inconsistencies you point out can be easily fixed, and I'll do what I can right now. The state of the article as a whole is pretty poor, obviously, I'll see if I can do something about it later on today when I'm free to do this manner of research. (Oh, about the, ahem, username. It started out as a one-edit/one-article joke, and I'm stuck with it. I've had thoughts about changing it, but it seems to suit me so well... Glad you approve. :) Dekkappai (talk) 17:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No, no sarcasm at all, and nothing to apologize about. For my part, I'm sorry; I'd wrongly assumed that you could read Japanese fairly easily: of course if you can't then it's not so easy to improve on the present mess of an article. -- Hoary (talk) 02:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- My Japanese is pretty hit & miss, picked up by close proximity with Japanese speakers as a child, my own non-academic reading & studying, and visiting the country a few times when I lived in Korea for a few years. (During which time the Korean language supplanted most of my knowledge of Japanese.) Apology, or non-apology, accepted or not, as appropriate. Dekkappai (talk) 17:25, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No, no sarcasm at all, and nothing to apologize about. For my part, I'm sorry; I'd wrongly assumed that you could read Japanese fairly easily: of course if you can't then it's not so easy to improve on the present mess of an article. -- Hoary (talk) 02:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Dekkappai (and I always love that username), the last part of what you write is some kind of response to something that I wrote. You are of course under no obligation to come up with what I think would be a better response, but I warmly invite you to do so. You clearly think that the article about Yūki/Shimizu is worth preserving (and, presumably, improving). I haven't yet decided if I agree with you, but even if I don't I respect your point of view. However, I'm mystified by what seems to be an imbalance of energies here. Whatever the merits of an article on her, the article as it stands now is awful. Couldn't you -- or somebody else who's written rather energetically on behalf of there being an article -- at least remove the contradictions (real and apparent) that still plague the very first paragraph? -- Hoary (talk) 04:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Question Is it proper to Move an article in the midst of AfD discussion? I think the article should more properly be titled "Asuka Yūki". Dekkappai (talk) 17:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:MOS-JP, the English Wikipedia should use Western name order. —Quasirandom (talk) 00:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, and I believe the Western order would be "Asuka Yūki". Dekkappai (talk) 00:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The last time I looked, it wasn't appropriate to move during an AfD, no. I must regretfully concede that yes, MoS-ja has an intercoursing stupid rule by which the names of Japanese people born after 1867 must be put back to front, in order not to frighten the horses or whatever. And yes, this even applies to the noms de guerre of hotties, leading to such nonsense as "Sora Aoi" (cf "Twain Mark", not that he was a hottie or anything). -- Hoary (talk) 04:45, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Right-- Rampo Edogawa is another name that suffers more than usual under this rule. Dekkappai (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The last time I looked, it wasn't appropriate to move during an AfD, no. I must regretfully concede that yes, MoS-ja has an intercoursing stupid rule by which the names of Japanese people born after 1867 must be put back to front, in order not to frighten the horses or whatever. And yes, this even applies to the noms de guerre of hotties, leading to such nonsense as "Sora Aoi" (cf "Twain Mark", not that he was a hottie or anything). -- Hoary (talk) 04:45, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, and I believe the Western order would be "Asuka Yūki". Dekkappai (talk) 00:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:MOS-JP, the English Wikipedia should use Western name order. —Quasirandom (talk) 00:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Another Question ***WARNING*** The following links are not work-safe! At THIS site (biglobe.av-channel.com), I've found Asuka Yūki (結城明日香) in their top-ten rankings for several weeks. HERE, for example, she is in the #1 position (1位 結城明日香) (look at the listings on the left). All the "Week" headings give the current week, however. My Japanese is far from good, does anyone know how to make better sense of this? Dekkappai (talk) 22:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know, but I can confirm that yes, according to this site she is this week's number one. And a look at her page tells me that she's welcome to stroll along the street outside my house any time. Though I'd ask her not to invite a media circus when she does so. -- Hoary (talk) 02:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- On balance, keep. She may just be a flash in the pan (I haven't investigated), but anyway she's at least one week's flash in the pan. And let's not pan flesh. -- Hoary (talk) 02:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- So that's a keep per WP:HOTTIE? :) Jfire (talk) 02:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You betcha. -- Hoary (talk) 02:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Should we not examine the videos to see how HOT she is..:) Igor Berger (talk) 03:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ahem. In a subject as serious as this, I'd hoped we could avoid playing the WP:HOTTIE card. But there it is, and there's no denying it. :) Dekkappai (talk) 17:19, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Looks like she gets to stay! Anyway, for now, she maybe deleted later, if she stops being HOT. Igor Berger (talk) 04:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Ahem. In a subject as serious as this, I'd hoped we could avoid playing the WP:HOTTIE card. But there it is, and there's no denying it. :) Dekkappai (talk) 17:19, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Should we not examine the videos to see how HOT she is..:) Igor Berger (talk) 03:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- You betcha. -- Hoary (talk) 02:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- So that's a keep per WP:HOTTIE? :) Jfire (talk) 02:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- keep Would almost be notable by her pornographic work. Her arrest appears to push her over the edge to reasonable notability per WP:BIO. JoshuaZ (talk) 20:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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