Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The First School of Modern SkyFlying

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Olav Zipser. (non-admin closure) ––FormalDude (talk) 05:42, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The First School of Modern SkyFlying

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I've prodded this with "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline nor the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar.". User:Jc37 suggested a merge to Olav Zipser , but IMHO the article is purely promotional, and the notability of Zipser is dubious (it just survived an AfD as no consensus). Can we at least prune this entry from the series of SPA-written articles promoting Zipser and his businesses/ideas (other articles include Space Games and the most salvagable, freeflying, which just needs to be de-Zipserized per WP:UNDUE)). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:46, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies, Sports, and United States of America. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:46, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Olav Zipser. It can be AfD'd later and if found to be not notable, then they can both go. But, redirect appears to be the reasonable as we're apparently supposed to approach alternative to deletion. I'm hesistant to suggest redirect to a target when the relevance is questionable such as in the case of re-directing some small time personnel/company to an indisputably notable target whose connection with the article company/person in question is very tangential. In this case, the two are closely inter-related so I vote re-direct. Graywalls (talk) 00:51, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

keep

Zipser is known and respected around the world by pretty much every freeflying skydiver alive, as the ‘Father of FreeFly’.

It would not be possible to talk about the history of freeflying without mentioning Zipser, and not possible to completely 'de-Zipserize' the freeflying article (as suggested above) as Zipser is undisputedly recognised in skydiving circles around the world, as the founder of freeflying.

The First School of Modern SkyFlying is exactly that, it was 'the first' - since it existed there are now hundreds of freefly instructors and schools around the world, as well as wind tunnels and wind tunnel coaches teaching freeflying.

The First School of Modern SkyFlying does not exist as a business to be promoted, so the article is historical so cannot be promotional, other than to the sport of skydiving and freeflying itself as an activity.

The same is true of the Space Games, it is part of the history of the development of freeflying. The last Space Games was held in 2006. So again, this article cannot be considered promotional, other than to the sport of skydiving and freeflying itself as an activity.

With all due respect, I feel that these articles would be best edited (or decided on) by Wikipedians with skydiving knowledge and experience, as this is a non-mainstream activity, with Zipser being very much a significant part of freefly history and development.

As per Wikipedias notability guidelines… Zipser, certainly in skydiving history and circles, is "worthy of notice", “remarkable", "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded”

The equivalent of a PhD in sporting terms would be the Sports Emmy Award, which he received.

There is a solid reference on the official Fédération aéronautique internationale website - the world governing body for air sports

https://www.fai.org/page/isc-artistic-events

As mentioned before in a previous [discussion] for the Olav Zipser article. Skydiving and freeflying are fringe sports / not main stream activities. Whilst the sports themselves are often mentioned in mainstream media (normally only when there is an accident or death though), the pioneers and champions famous within the sports are generally only featured in skydiving and parachuting specific publications and websites. Rarely is main stream media interested in the individuals behind the sport that are 'famous' within the sport like with main stream spectator sports like football.

Quadtripplea (talk) 15:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:58, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Famous doesn't mean notable. I don't find any sources for this school or sports "thing". I'm not sure even the Olav fellow would be notable, but we can discuss if/when that gets tot AfD. The references mentioned above are about the sport, not this entity. That's the issue. Oaktree b (talk) 14:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Oaktree b Just a note that Olav had his AfDs, two, recent one was no consensus and you commented there briefly :) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Olav Zipser (2nd nomination) _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:00, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

keep or merge with Olav Zipser Quadtripplea (talk) 18:50, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You already voted above, please note it's one vote per person. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:27, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect - it's a "thing" all right [1], but this book is only a passing mention and in relation to Zipser. Also found four mentions on Newspapers.com, but all four are briefest of passing mentions with no notability apart from Zipser, i.e. "Zipser has opened The First School of Modern SkyFlying". The independent, verifiable information I can find on this topic is already contained in the Zipser article. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 03:44, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.