Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minami Minegishi (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:25, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Minami Minegishi

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My redirect of this article to the "band" [AKB48]] was reverted. This is a poorly referenced BLP for a person who outside that band has no notability, and it's part of the conglomerate of fan articles on this band--AKB48 on Wikipedia. The article consists, besides a nauseating list of "appearances" (in J-pop every fart is notable), of nothing but one bit of gossip: supposedly she spent the night with some boy. Gasp! In that sense, BLP1E might even apply. Besides that there is nothing here--nothing but a fan site. Drmies (talk) 16:52, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I just noticed this is the second nomination, and I am not convinced by the first one. One of the keep arguments is her participation on an AKB48 single--well, band members aren't automatically notable if the band has success, and as you can tell from this fan article, there's a TON of persons on that record. I think we're forgetting that this is an industry and that the "characters" in those bands are just that, characters, who can be exchanged from one day to the next. Individual notability can therefore most certainly NOT be derived from membership, if that were in any doubt. Drmies (talk) 16:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This page should not be deleted. It is quite obvious that "Drmies" is biased against J-pop ("in J-pop every fart is notable", and "I think we're forgetting that this is an industry and that the 'characters' in those bands are just that, characters, who can be exchanged from one day to the next. "). Just because "Drmies" is not familiar with Minami Minegishi does not mean she is not well known in Japan, and in Asia in general. I am getting the impression "Drmies" is more guided by cultural imperialism than objectivity. Nilbuk (talk) 17:54, 13 June 2013 (UTC) — Nilbuk (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- No need for the quotes. I'm not biased against J-pop any more than I am biased against, say, plastic tableware. I am biased against fancruft, that I'll cop to. Your claim of my being guided by cultural imperialism is a personal attack and shows a lack of good faith. BTW, where'd you come from all of a sudden? Should we place Template:Not a ballot on this page? Drmies (talk) 18:24, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Drmies, please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Vgleer. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 17:36, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep. There are plenty of reliable sources. The article has been nominated for deletion last year, and was kept. Since then, she only became more famous. Many new reliable sources have been added to the article since then. Here's the latest article I saw: [1]. As you can see, Oricon Style cares about everything about her very much. --Moscowconnection (talk) 20:19, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. User who brought this AfD has turned a number of articles on individual AKB48 members into redirects. I will not judge whether this user is biased again this or any other pop group, but the statement "I think we're forgetting that this is an industry and that the "characters" in those bands are just that, characters, who can be exchanged from one day to the next" indicates a personal opinion that, while some may share, is irrelevant to this AfD because it is only a subjective opinion. Even "characters" one personally thinks are "exchangeable" are notable as long as they pass WP:GNG, which demands more objective criteria. As I noted with the Mariko Shinoda AfD, it is true there is a legitimate argument that of the 100s of members of AKB and its sister groups, the vast majority do not deserve their own articles. Notability is not inherited. But it is basic to not only the AKB marketing strategy but also of many other talent agencies like Johnny's to create individual notability for the major members by having them appear in different musical groups, appear individually on TV, have individual contracts to do TV CMs, etc. So it is not the case that all AKB members are only notable because of AKB. Each must be judged individually. Even before her scandal, Minegishi was active in multiple groups/bands (indicating her notability was not solely derived from AKB), appeared in TV commercials by herself ([2]), and was a regular on TV shows by herself ([3]). Then there was the scandal. True, this was a scandal, but it was reported by the media not just because it was a scandal, but because it was perceived to be emblematic of the Japanese idol system ([4], [5], etc.), . Perhaps ironically, Minegishi came to represent something more than AKB. Infamy is still fame, and passes WP:GNG. Michitaro (talk) 21:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - First of all, having an opinion about the notability of a group of articles is NOT the same as bias. Drmies is entitled have an opinion without it somehow invalidating the whole discussion. As for the article, I'm wondering if it shouldn't be about the head shaving incident, rather than the person. I have very little interest in idols, but I do remember reading about this when it happened. As Michitaro said, this incident was widely discussed as being an example of sexual norms in idol culture, and a number of other areas outside of the usual gossip mills. The article needs a lot of work, but it seems like it might be worth it. Grayfell (talk) 23:55, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep and clean up a lot - the head-shaving incident does make this particular member stand out - not as a member of the group, but as a representative of the entire industry. It is true, though, that most of the article's content is unacceptable. Ansh666 00:52, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - Per Michitaro's last argument about her head-shaving incident. Incident was reported in domestic and international media; in Japan it was the source of serious discussion on the state of idols in Japan. In excellent articles such as in The Atlantic [6] or CNN [7] it generated culturally relevant commentary on gender relations and abuse in the Japanese entertainment industry. In lieu of a stand-alone article on the incident, better expansion of that section in this article is warranted. Jun Kayama 02:49, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Sure she is mainly famous outside Japan for shaving her head; however, in Japan, it was a big deal. Also, the sheer volume of coverage for that incident, along with the fact she was already famous even before it, means this isn't a BLP1E case. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:21, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - National media continues to refer to Minegishi's incident and her affect on the Japanese idol perception including this article posted today which made the New York Times [8] WP:NEWSEVENT -AngusWOOF (talk) 16:39, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Her apology and head-shaving struck a nerve because it reminded people of the bad old days when Japanese were expected to committed suicide in such situations. See this BBC story. It's not very often that individual J-pop celebrities get covered in the international press. Kauffner (talk) 11:19, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Minami also "is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles" (AKB48 and no3b), which is "Wikipedia:Notability (music)#Criteria for musicians and ensembles" criterion 6. --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:52, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.