Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of Liberia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 17:54, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of people on the postage stamps of Liberia

List of people on the postage stamps of Liberia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:LISTN. Additionally, unsourced since its creation in 2004, ends for some reason in 1974, less than 1 pageview per day so not of great interest to our readers also. Same issues as with the many dozens of similar articles already deleted. Fram (talk) 14:00, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Africa. Fram (talk) 14:00, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - we have articles such as List of people on the postage stamps of the United States and List of people on the postage stamps of India. Even if people are not reading the article on Liberia's stamps, we cannot delete articles just because they are low-traffic. And we certainly cannot start deciding which countries are more notable than others, and only keeping the lists of certain countries. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 14:20, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • If there are sources for these countries, but not for Liberia, then we can very well decide to keep an article for one country and not for another. The eletion reason is WP:LISTN, the article is unsourced and while individual entries could be sources, there are no sources for the group topic, for "people on postage stamps of Liberia". The sorry state of the article is just additional information, when the first of these AfDs happened some people complained that people wanted these lists (no, not really), or that we need to give time, or... There have been many, many deletions of such articles, often by Prod, but also by AfD, see here. Such deletion happened for Italy, the Philippines, Germany, ... so it's not as if only smallish or third world countries get their article deleted. Fram (talk) 14:32, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I found sources for Liberia. I think it's unlikely that there are not sources for every country, given the meticulousness of stamp collectors. Based on that, my !vote stands, but reasonable minds can differ. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 15:02, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

None of these sources are about the subject though. The first[1] is a general stamp catalogue of Liberia, as is the second; the third[2] isn't even that much, and the last[3] is a primary source and again just a stamp catalogue. None are about people on postage stamps of liberia, none discuss that topic, you just can extract this information just like you could create a list of all green and black stamps of Liberia, or all 5 cents stamps of Liberia, or all watermarked stamps of Liberia. Fram (talk) 15:40, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is no policy basis that a list needs an outside source discussing the topic, and LISTN does not require that. We have articles like List of flags by color combination which are far more ridiculous. A list of people on a certain country's stamps is interesting and informative, which is what WP is all about. I think a lot of lists here are silly, and I don't see any real basis for deleting this one outside of an aversion to stamp articles (which is fair, stamps are strange). ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 14:02, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete we do not have a level of sourcing to meet list requirements. I doubt we do in the other cases mentioned, but since we need to find enough sourcing for an specific topic to justify a list, that other topics may or may not have enough sourcing to justify a list is not grounds to have a list here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:35, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete not another postage stamps list article. Clearly fails WP:LISTN. LibStar (talk) 07:18, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:LISTN says that the list topic being discussed as a group is "One accepted reason" for notability. It is by no means the only reason. LISTN goes on to say: "There is no present consensus for how to assess the notability of more complex and cross-categorization lists". A list of people on Liberian stamps qualifies as a cross-categorization of stamps, so saying it fails LISTN is disingenuous and misleading. Not liking stamps lists is not a valid reason for deletion. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 13:58, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Somehow, I see claiming that this fails WP:LISTN as less disingenuous than stating "I found sources for Liberia" as a reply to "there are no sources for the group topic, for "people on postage stamps of Liberia". " when it turns out that none of these sources were actually about that topic. YMMV, but I would first look at your own role and statements here before starting to attack others. And a cross-categorization of non-notable subjects (as most of these individual stamps aren't notable) is not in any way better than a listification of a non-notable group subject. "Non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations" is listed in WP:NOT, which is policy. Fram (talk) 14:52, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I did not intend to make personal attacks. My use of "disingenuous" was a poor choice, I meant it only to mean 'misleading'. And relying on the NLIST guideline is misleading since it does not address the topic of this discussion and it does not require any list to have a source establishing that the 'group' is notable. And that's it, I will stop before I say something else poorly. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 15:35, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per ‡ El cid, el campeador .GorgonaJS (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails LISTN, there appears to be no SIGCOV in RS on the phenomenon of people being portrayed on Liberian stamps. The primary objection to deleting this article appears to be WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Why should we have an article/list on this subject if no RS does? -Indy beetle (talk) 22:29, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: As an indiscriminant list. I randomly picked Jehudi Ashmun to see if there was a source provided there but there is no mention at all. I would think some mention (sourced) would be important on individual articles before making a list of names (such as Robert Goodloe Harper), that also does not include mention. -- Otr500 (talk) 13:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.