Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Africa

WP:DSAFRICA

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Africa. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion

Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:

Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Africa|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.

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Other types of discussions

You can also add and remove links to other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Africa.

Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:

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See also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa

Africa

Nkosana Makate

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Product of WP:BLP1E. Yes, the subject has been making the news in the past few months but this is all just 15 minutes of fame. WP:ATD, a redirect to Vodacom#"Please Call Me" would make sense. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, Technology, Africa, and South Africa. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2005 Air Kasaï Antonov An-26B crash

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Accident barely demonstrates notability. Fails the general notability guideline, the event criteria and doesn't demonstrate any lasting effects. Accident barely has any coverage whatsoever. I've only been able to find three news channels covering it including two in french and one in english: NBC news; Congo Planète (French); AllAfrica (French). Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Aviation, Africa, and Democratic Republic of the Congo. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Embassy of Guinea, London

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Article contains no content other than location and former location of the embassy. Lacking any secondary sources, only source is government listing of diplomatic missions. Fails WP:GNG. AusLondonder (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Organizations, and United Kingdom. AusLondonder (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On a quick Google search I can't find anything useful, so perhaps this should not be standalone. Best WP:ATD I can see is redirecting to List of diplomatic missions of Guinea#Europe. —Kusma (talk) 19:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect (NB this could have been done – or at least tried – without an AfD). I was going to suggest Foreign relations of Guinea as a target, but the target suggested by Kusma is probably better. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Article merely confirms it exists. Fails GNG. LibStar (talk) 23:48, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Kusma. Not notable enough for an article, but a plausible search term. Thryduulf (talk) 12:20, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Sporting Clube da Praia players

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Indiscriminate list of mostly non-notable people fails to meet the criteria defined by the WP:NLIST. Let'srun (talk) 15:43, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Football. Let'srun (talk) 15:43, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Africa. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The player base from most of the club's history is completely impossible to verify, the list is utterly impossible to maintain and the vast majority of entries on the list would be amateur footballers that fail WP:GNG individually. People that do meet GNG individually, and whose playing for SC Praia we have verified, can be collected in a category. Geschichte (talk) 08:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per similar AfD (CD Travadores players). Svartner (talk) 22:09, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Redundant list filled with unsourced materials and non-notable players. X (talk) 18:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ornela Livramento

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a Cape Verdean women's basketball player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The best I found was this interview. JTtheOG (talk) 20:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Basketball, Africa, and Rhode Island. JTtheOG (talk) 20:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete fails WP:GNG -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 21:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: This subject does not meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. All of the sources in the article are either primary or are namedrops. Let'srun (talk) 00:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Road signs in Lesotho

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This is just a NOTGALLERY violation plain and simple. There's basically zero prose and it only exists to include related images. The only sources provided appear to be primary. The scope of the article does not appear to be providing information outside a collection of images. These belong on Commons, which actually does host galleries with little to no prose. GMG ^talk 16:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Africa. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:01, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Also delete the articles on the "See also" section which has the same problems (created by others), as well as the Road signs in Cyprus article created by the same editor. The editor has been here for over a decade and they should know better by now. These are just some of the articles I've checked. There maybe others with the same issue. The editor should look at Road signs in the United Kingdom for inspiration if those are the types of articles they are interested in.Tamsier (talk) 12:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into a single article about road signs in countries that use the SADC system (South Africa, Botswana, Tanzania, Namibia; possibly others?) with a few examples of common signs of each type and highlighting any that differ from the standard. There is the start of useful encyclopaedia article here. The present format is not great, but deletion is not the solution to a poorly structured encyclopaedia article. Thryduulf (talk) 08:29, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Eh...There are like 100 of these, and they're not really attempts at writing an encyclopedia article in the first place. What you're suggesting doesn't sound very much like a merge, but more like writing a new article. Having two broken primary web links, a primary gov manual, and two lines of prose doesn't really give you a whole lot to work with. GMG ^talk 22:37, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There's definitely an encyclopedia article to be written about road signage practices in Lesotho. But unfortunately we have a giant gallery with no encyclopedic information. I'm not opposed to Thryduulf's suggestion, but for this article I would advocate WP:TNT without prejudice against someone recreating an actual article at this title. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 01:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afro fusion

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374	An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette	An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/	Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/	All of the article's material was copied from another blog	Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed	The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go	Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists	Article contains several quotations from Mango		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/	Semi-indepedent		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([1])
2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [2] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [3] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[4]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[5][6][7]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[8][9][10] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[11][12]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bernadine okoro
1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [13]
2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [14], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[15][16] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[17][18][19]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[20]. Also, I find this statement broad

“By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”

For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[21]

Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23].
So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .

"but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [24] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[25] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [26]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [27].

Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.

Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.

The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).

I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.

"Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.

The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.

Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [28], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.

As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.

Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [29][30][31] [32][33][34]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [35]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [36]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[37] [38] [39]

Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [40] [41] and crossover [42] [43] [44] [45] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[46]

If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?

Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in 1 sentence in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [47]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[48]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."

As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlife kpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".

In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].

The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.

Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[49]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[50]

As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[51][52][53] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [54][55][56].

Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[57][58][59] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)

There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [60][61][62][63], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.

You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.

Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [64]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.

Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [65], [66] [67] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [68][69][70] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43

Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.

As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.

It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Kenya. dxneo (talk) 21:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sandogo

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Set of new geographic pages of villages of Burkina Faso created by User:Hisirmynameismahbeer. All of them seem to be added using copy-paste of a template and some very disputable sources. In this example, a completely unrelated Britannica entry is used as source. I started draftifying some articles and fixing the ones for which information can be found, but this seems a clear case of WP:TNT. Some of these places exist and are found in the 2006 census data (found here) but they are definitely not "towns", they are often located in a different district than the one in the infobox, and sometimes they are only districts of a city (which would not fulfill WP:NGEO). Broc (talk) 11:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Africa. Broc (talk) 11:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because of the reasons added above:

Delete all per WP:V and WP:BURDEN. Wikipedia has had presistent problems with dubious geographical oneliners in the past, from California to name one example. You can take the time a user spent on making a particular set of oneliners, and multiply that time by hundreds or a thousand to reach the number of the hours it took to clean it all up. It is imperative to take a hard stance against mass-created geostubs with questionable verifiability. Geschichte (talk) 23:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
DELETE ALL per WP:BURDEN. Fails WP:GEOLAND. --Twinkle1990 (talk) 15:11, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can see at least two that are worth keeping - Katabtenga (based on sources in the article) and Dassouri (based on sources in the French article.) Habaza also has text but I can't verify it. I spot checked some of the other settlements and can verify some but not others - Louksi clearly exists, for instance, but Nemnin is a neighbourhood of Ouagadougou which doesn't pass GNG "on its face" in the article - so I'm happy with deleting the rest as a purely procedural concern, without any sort of prejudice on re-creation. SportingFlyer T·C 16:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SportingFlyer the reason why I opened this AfD and grouped all pages together is that verifying and sourcing all these articles (of which I would guesstimate 30% are worth keeping) is a huge effort. As Katabtenga is a well sourced article, I will withdraw the nomination for it. Broc (talk) 08:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I think this needs more discussion since there is an opinion that some of the articles in this bundled nomination should be Kept.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:55, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural keep Sorry, but these should be nominated separately, bundling together could keep a more legitimate town. However I do agree there is a problem here, but the process of bundling all-together is a bit of a shit-show. Govvy (talk) 10:11, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How is keeping a bunch of copy pasted articles that nobody will likely ever nominate separately (I most certainly will not) and containing wrong information a better solution for the encyclopedia? Broc (talk) 10:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep and nominate separately – It's already becoming a WP:TRAINWRECK here a bit. The nominator stated in a comment above that, "I would guesstimate 30% are worth keeping". The nominator also stated that they don't want to do the work to nominate each article separately, but this is not a valid criteria for mass deletion. Yes, there have been problems with geography-related articles on English Wikipedia, but this is also not a valid criteria for deletion of this batch as some sort of default, based on the past history of other articles. See also: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep and nominate separately – If you want them deleted, do the work and review them one by one. — Maile (talk) 12:09, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Very nice burden on WP:NPP who is definitely not overloaded already.^[sarcasm]~~This would create a huge burden on WP:NPP where editors need to review 50+ pages, all containing wrong or dubious information and poor sourcing, merely because some of these places actually exist and therefore fulfill WP:NGEO. Broc (talk) 13:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And honestly the editors arguing for a procedural keep above have forgotten to consider that these are a bunch of copy-pasted recently created pages from the same user (hence the grouping). Broc (talk) 13:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural delete all If someone wants to create articles, they should do the work and review them one by one rather than mass-produce single-line junk with an unreliable autogenerated source. These could also be redirected to List of cities in Burkina Faso or provincial-level articles like Gayéri (department). Reywas92^Talk 14:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural keep Most of these articles are badly problematic but are notable. I figured this out after I could confirm Louksi on a map, but couldn't find any sources (apart from one photo of a proposed building from an architect) until I poked over to the French site to see it was Lougsi (see [71]), meaning I verified Katabtenga, Dassouri, and Louksi. This gave me a hint that there are other misspellings in here as well, including Taonsgho [72] for Taonsogo, Goghin ([73]) for Goughin Nord, et cetera. Zékounga is clearly notable from the French article as well now that I look at it, and I've done what I can to rescue it mostly by providing a link to the French page. The only one I support deleting right now is Nemnin, because these are impossible to BEFORE without looking at the French wikipedia. SportingFlyer T·C 18:10, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sandogo also has a link to the French article now and is a clearly notable town of over 6,000 people. SportingFlyer T·C 18:13, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Additional confirmed notable places under GEOLAND using the french Wiki:

Nakomtenga - Nakamtenga

Tinsouka - Tinsouka

Goupana - Goupana

Dinkabara - Dinkabra

Babakou - Babakou

Cannot confirm Bangma is Bagma though. SportingFlyer T·C 18:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would support deletion or re-nomination of Pamno Ouidi, Nemnin, and Ayaraba, have confirmed these do not pass WP:GEOLAND. But I can confirm Zambanega. SportingFlyer T·C 00:42, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Solar eclipse of February 11, 1804

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Eclipse is not historic and has no references but a NASA database page. There are also no references or sources to be found for this article and it has attracted zero media attention. Though the idea of a zero-second eclipse is nice and all, there's really no evidence for this article's notability and by WP:NOTDATABASE it should probably just be redirected to List of solar eclipses in the 19th century. I also think it would be good to look through other historic eclipse articles that may not be notable and consider redirecting those as well, but that's a topic for another discussion. Thank you! Poxy4 (talk) 21:56, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Astronomy, Africa, Europe, and Brazil. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:37, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

redirect to List of solar eclipses in the 19th century. This is an entirely calculated eclipse with no record of observations— not terribly surprising given the era and track. Mangoe (talk) 02:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of solar eclipses in the 19th century, since the article fails the notability criteria for events. Most of the sources about this eclipse are primary and do not consitute notability. InTheAstronomy32 (talk) 18:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I'm somewhat neutral on this one. Based on the path of totality it was certainly observed in eastern European cities and other locations, even though there were no published journal articles on expeditions. There are a couple of boilerplate web sites on the event, but it isn't showing up in any books. I'd say it is of questionable notability, so no objection to turning it into a redirect or just keeping it. Praemonitus (talk) 18:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

George John Seaton

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No evidence of notability. All the significant sources dealing with the topic are written by the subject. All others simply reference background story and not the subject. Fails WP:GNG . An earlier version was draftified because it lacked any credible claim to notability, so the same authored simply created this new version in mainspace without improving notability. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 15:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Africa, France, England, and South America. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 15:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ - as well as the lack of notability, the whole thing reads like a school essay. Or maybe from a chat-bot. This is highlighted by the following comment in the lede: "This article explores George John Seaton's life as a prisoner, slave, and man. It will include researched documentation as well as information from his personal book, Isle of the Damned, to piece together the story of this man's intriguing life."--Gronk Oz (talk) 12:25, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It reads like a school essay because the person who wrote the article, Jeorgiaobrien, is a university student who made it for an assignment. Just putting that out there in case anyone else who comes across this doesn't know. Sadustu Tau (talk) 15:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I propose moving the article into the draftspace. As the user above noted, this is part of a student assignment, in which first-year college students are grappling with understanding the differences between primary, secondary, and tertiary sources. The article was prematurely moved to the mainspace and correctly flagged—but it can be turned into a feasible Wikipedia article because there is a relevant source base.

Seaton’s notability primarily arises from the extensive reception of his autobiography, which occurred in two waves: 1) initial reception upon publication in the early 1950s, around the time Devil's Island ceased operations as a penal colony, by a largely Anglophone public and 2) the use of his autobiographical account in the contemporary historiography on French Guiana and related topics that reach from the treatment of prisoners across the French Empire to examples of queer sexuality during incarceration. In short, given that there is only a limited number of prisoners’ own accounts from their time in French Guiana (some of which have further been debunked as hoaxes), Seaton’s autobiography has become a standard historical source among scholars—and he, by extension, a model prisoner of sorts.

I have advised the student to make the necessary edits to turn this article into a proper encyclopedic essay, and to restructure it around the significance of his autobiography, which can be properly verified with secondary sources. We would appreciate it if she received the opportunity to make these edits in the draftspace. Outcasts&Outlaws (talk) 17:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - as nominator, I have no problem with this being moved back to Draft. I would have done so myself had there not already been a Draft in existnce preventing the new version being draftified. It will therefore need an Admin to do the draftification. However, I or any other editor, will still have be convinced by the sourcing that this person is indeed notable and not simply a self publicist, before accepting it in Mainspace. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 17:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - as the only !voter, I am also happy with draftification.--Gronk Oz (talk) 23:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I am the author of this article. I am continuously working on the article, so it meets the notability requirements. There are no longer any direct quotes from Seaton's autobiography and any wording that may sound like an essay has been removed. Here is a list of secondary sources that speak directly of Seaton and are sourced throughout the article: Negros with Slaves by Jet Magazine, Words of the Week by Jet Magazine, Space in the Tropics by Peter Redfield (University of California Press), and Empire of the Underworld (Harvard University Press). Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 16:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I have been working on improving the article, there are now over 10 new sources that are all secondary sources and relate to George John Seaton. I have implemented many changes including formatting, word choice, and the removal of any primary source quotes. Please review this article once again. If you have more improvements you would like me to make, please visit my talk page. I will be happy to continue to make changes. After reviewing the article, if it meets notability requirements then I would love for this article to no longer be flagged for deletion. I am doing my best to follow Wikipedia's guidelines while also sharing a story of a man who should be remembered. Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 03:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Change !vote to Keep - the changes described above tip the scales (just) in my opinion. I would still like to see the article's tone cleaned up to fix unsupported phrases like "notoriously one of the worst penal colonies of its time", "if imprisonment didn't kill a prisoner, then disease would", etc. and to spend less space discussing Papillon in two different sections. But I think this can be done in place rather that draftifying. --Gronk Oz (talk) 05:12, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - From a brief look at this article and its references, perhaps it could be retitled Isle of the Damned and be restructured to be about the book/s Isles and Scars - their reviews and reception, use by University of Michigan, comparisons, censorship, etc? It would of course include a potted bio of Seaton. Is there enough for WP:NBOOK? JennyOz (talk) 07:28, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the feedback. I will speak with my professor about the suggestion and consider your idea. Best wishes, Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 15:50, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:58, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. This article has basically been rewritten over the past two weeks and we have an unbolded "Keep" from the article creator. I'd like to hear from others, especially the nominator, whether these changes made to the article affect your point of view of what should happen with it.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment as the nominator, I still remain uncertain about notability. As indicated above, I would be content with draftification to allow for improvement. I don't have access to any of the sources added during the recent major revision, but from their context it appears that the content of the book has been used in historical analysis both about the prison and its treatment of prisoners and other topics. Had this article been about the book, this may well have been sufficiet to demonstrate notability, but since , in this case, notability dependends on demonstrating multiple reliable sources that discuss the subject, I cannot be sure that that has been achieved, especially as most of the claims to notability are bundled into a single short paragraph at the end. Those with access to the quoted sources may possibly disagree, in which case I would be content to defer to their better understanding. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 22:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Africa Proposed deletions

Evans Brima Gbemeh (via WP:PROD on 11 September 2023)

Algeria

Algerian Cup Final referees

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Irrelevant article of mostly non-notable people, which doesn't meet WP:GNG. We tend to only have articles like this for major events like FIFA World Cup referees, not for national cup tournaments like this one. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Football, and Algeria. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, not relevant for Wikipedia. Geschichte (talk) 12:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per WP:INDISCRIMINATE, WP:NLIST. Svartner (talk) 18:21, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Algerian Cup semi-finals

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Non-notable topic. 'Algerian Cup semi-finals' is not independently notable outside of the Algerian Cup and an unlikely search term. Merging may not be an option since the whole article is unreferenced. Details of the semi-finals themselves seem to be already covered in individual season articles, although for example 1964–65 Algerian Cup is completely unreferenced as well. C 679 04:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete This really is not about notability, season pages are okay for the cup and that covers each semi, this is really not in the WP:SCOPE of how to construct the football content on wikipedia. Govvy (talk) 09:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete don't need a separate articles for semi-finals, they can be covered in other existing articles like the parent article Algerian Cup or the season articles. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Separate articles for finals are understandable, but not for semi-finals. Svartner (talk) 18:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MC El Bayadh Bus Crash

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Reviewed during NPP. Article about a bus crash. No wp:notability per the events SNG or GNG. Also per wp:not news. North8000 (talk) 13:16, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Clearly fails WP:GNG and WP:EVENT. Nagol0929 (talk) 15:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Football, Transportation, and Algeria. Skynxnex (talk) 15:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Selective merge a mention that a player and staff died in a bus crash before a match in the main MC El Bayadh article seems fine, but this event has no WP:SUSTAINED coverage and violates WP:NOTNEWS. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:57, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 13:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete (however) I believe this can be covered in the two team club pages, and should be added to the 2023–24 Algerian Ligue Professionnelle 1 season page along with 2023–24 in Algerian football if it ever gets created. As that kind of information can effect the team big time involve in this competition. I don't see the need for an independent article. Govvy (talk) 15:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect to MC El Bayadh#History. Giant Snowman 14:21, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

<--

Algeria Proposed deletions

Please hide entire section when there are no articles nominated for WP:PROD -->

Angola

List of Girabola seasons

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Per WP:NLIST and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The list of seasons can already be found in the main article Girabola, another duplicate article being unnecessary. Svartner (talk) 09:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football, Angola, and Lists. Svartner (talk) 09:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Shouldn't you include everything linked to? Category:Girabola seasons Dream Focus 11:15, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, Svartner doesn't advocate deletion of the individual seasons, just the overarching list - which adds exactly nothing to the category. Geschichte (talk) 16:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, my question is whether there is a separate list if the main article already includes a list of seasons. Svartner (talk) 20:38, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Its unneeded. also kind of goes against WP:NOTDIRECTORY. The way the article is made, it may as well just be a category page. Shadow311 (talk) 19:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The seasons are listed in the template. If no other information is in the list article, it becomes pointless. Dream Focus 23:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:25, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and expand/improve, in-line with List of Premier League seasons etc. This is ~~Morocco's~~ Angola's top football competition. Giant Snowman 18:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment (I am at abstained vote here.) This list could be more useful if done right. As GS pointed out we do have them. And @GiantSnowman: this is the Angolan league, not the Moroccan! :/ Govvy (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, getting Girabola mixed up with Botola! Giant Snowman 20:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete without prejudice - at the moment this is a duplicative, unnecessary article, but there's the potential for a better article here if someone wants to create something more detailed. SportingFlyer T·C 20:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Svartner, Shadow311, Dream Focus, Govvy, and SportingFlyer: I have started the process of converting into a proper list a la List of Premier League seasons, just need someone with time and knowledge to help... Giant Snowman 20:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Using RSSSF which lists all the champs... Giant Snowman 20:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...and I've just noticed has pages for every individual season, such as 1979, 1980 etc. As such, if you still don't want to keep, please agree to draftify so I can work on it. Giant Snowman 20:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No problem with draftification, but I do hope it's more comprehensive than just what's on the Girabola page. SportingFlyer T·C 15:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...which it would be if you check my edits to this article... Giant Snowman 20:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a big difference between the Premier League and the Angolan championship. The list of seasons is duplicated, as it is also included in the main article Girabola. Svartner (talk) 00:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Girabola#Girabola_participation_details list all the information doesn't it? Dream Focus 02:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That section is absolutely incomprehensible! I have deleted. Giant Snowman 20:39, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I'm with GiantSnowman here. This article needs work, but that is not a reason for deletion, especially if it not an obvious WP:TNT. This article has a lot of potential à la List of Premier League seasons, so it's not a TNT. Anwegmann (talk) 23:16, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 18:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cameroon

Akuma Saningong

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Purely promotional and written by a UPE. - UtherSRG (talk) 10:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.

Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Academics and educators, Cameroon, and Germany. UtherSRG (talk) 10:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I started to remove the sources that are really blogs or blurb/PR for his promotional speaking events, but I would be left with little else if I continue. Highly promotional article for which a Wikipedia article is the main component of his notabilitt?! Aszx5000 (talk) 13:43, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So why not !vote? - UtherSRG (talk) 01:22, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:57, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fails WP:NSCIENTIST, other claims are spurious, nothing on Google that isn't press-related. BrigadierG (talk) 18:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete — obviously promotional, not much more to be added. — Biruitorul ^Talk 20:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Puffery and made up creation. The article doesn't provide variable importance for inclusion, while begging the fact that it lacks context and SIGCOV for WP:NAUTHOR (probably self published books), WP:NSCIENTIST. Doesn't show the need for entry here. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep | Clear pass for WP:NSCIENTIST, Creteria 1. See the Google Scholar entry for the subject in question: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=En63PXAAAAAJ His refereed article: https://diabetesjournals.org/diabetes/article/58/4/984/105/Functional-Characterization-of-Promoter-Variants has been cited more than 96 times by other academics and his basic research on the subject has led to further insights into understanding the molecular basis of obesity and its prevention. His other peer-reviewed article: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13568-018-0546-y Has been cited 20 times. It was also seminal work in addressing the issue of endocrine disruptors, which are environmental hazards that have a huge impact on humans, such as causing males to develop feminine features like breasts. Also a clear pass for WP:NAUTHOR See WorldCat record for non-self-published book: https://search.worldcat.org/de/search?q=Saningong Sword-Emperor-dev (talk) 05:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, this is a single-purpose account. Biruitorul ^Talk 06:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Democratic Republic of the Congo

2005 Air Kasaï Antonov An-26B crash

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Accident barely demonstrates notability. Fails the general notability guideline, the event criteria and doesn't demonstrate any lasting effects. Accident barely has any coverage whatsoever. I've only been able to find three news channels covering it including two in french and one in english: NBC news; Congo Planète (French); AllAfrica (French). Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Paulin Basinga

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Appears PROMO. I don't see articles about this individual, only interviews or use of him as an expert on xyz health topic in various media. Odd that all sourcing here is from Nigeria, but none in the home country, possible "pay to publish" as we see typically in Nigerian media. I have my concerns, bringing ti AfD to discuss. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness and Rwanda. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Nigeria, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 15:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose!

In the beginning, I read about him and his works. For clarification, it may seem to be promo but factually it is not.

In facts, connectively, I read that in the home country he was a university lecturer, researcher and consultant. These can be limits to his articles other than interviews or use of him as an expert. But I considered it notable because he featured on international articles including those of World Bank and BMGF. It is referenced that later on, he has featured on other institutions such as Global Citizen and UGHE.

I do not see any problem with sources from Nigeria because based on reliable sources, it shows that his work in leadership role at BMGF were about Africa and the biggest office there was in Nigeria.

However, If we test him in Rwanda, below are some articles about him but there are in Kinyarwanda;

https://mobile.igihe.com/amakuru/u-rwanda/article/dr-paulin-basinga-yahawe-kuyobora-bill-melinda-gates-foundation-ishami-rya
https://igihe.com/amakuru/u-rwanda/article/live-rwanda-day-yatangiye-i-washington-dc-amafoto

Thanks. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oaktree b, a drive-by comment: are you insinuating that "pay-to-publish" determines the nature of Nigeria media. I can't see much coverage if not two from Nigerian source. Don't you think it's below the belt?
Back to deletion discussion! — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I never knew the story about Nigerian and Indian media, and I think we should not easily globalize because from this subject, mathematically, the sources from Nigerian media are less than 30%. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt

Beni Ebeid Stadium

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No refs on the page for many years. Not seeing much which could be included however the sources may not be in English. JMWt (talk) 11:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. No located sources.

🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 15:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Beni Ebeid SC as ATD. Definitely not notable. Mccapra (talk) 16:09, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Sport of athletics. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:50, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to Beni Ebeid, the town it's in. The stadium isn't owned by the football club, they just operate there. The football club Beni Ebeid SC also needs to be merged into the town article. As it doesn't pass WP:SIGCOV, WP:GNG. Govvy (talk) 10:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 19:17, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Beni Ebeid SC as above; not even mentioned at the town article. Giant Snowman 19:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I sent Beni Ebeid SC to AfD, so now it's an inappropriate target! And it is mentioned in the town article now! :/ Govvy (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I think it needs fixing rather than deletion! Similar to what I've done to Beni Ebeid SC, I'll update this article one with new content in the nearest possible time. Ben5218 (talk) 14:37, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I've updated the article and added references. It's still a stub, but I think that's enough to keep it. Thoughts, everyone? @GiantSnowman, @Govvy, @Mccapra, @JayCubby.
Ben5218 (talk) 10:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment thanks for finding these Ben5218 but a Facebook post and two pieces of coverage saying the name of the stadium is changing don’t make it notable. I still a merge and redirect to either the club or the town is best. Mccapra (talk) 14:45, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Giant Snowman 17:59, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That Facebook post contains a video discussing the stadium's and club's history, though, and only one reference covers the name change, not two. Since my last comment here, another four references were added (I can find and add more easily, if needed), and I also added more content. This topic definitely passes WP:GNG now, in my opinion. Ben5218 (talk) 18:16, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep per the sources currently in the article. Decent enough coverage about an Egyptian topic. Geschichte (talk) 08:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 19:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt Proposed deletions

Ethiopia

Ethiopia Proposed deletions

Ghana

Emmanuel Kwasi Debrah

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The subject is not notable, WP:REFBOMB with sources written by the subject or the company he works for, 95% of the sources emanated from JoyNews where he works. As seen [here] and [here, ]. There are even cases where the sources directly came from the subject as seen [here]. Apart from that, most of the sources are not Reliable and are not Independent Ibjaja055 (talk) 13:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Journalism, Poetry, and Ghana. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:27, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All these anomalies are corrected Gyanford (talk) 10:06, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wesley Grammar School

AfDs for this article:

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Content of article has been significantly expanded since previous nom but no citations have been added that demonstrate WP:NSCHOOL has been met. Since the previous AfD closed as draftify the article creator has moved it to mainspace twice without addressing or discussing the notability issue. Triptothecottage (talk) 05:09, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ping @Rich Smith, @FatCat96, @Aydoh8, @Indefensible and @GraziePrego who participated previously, and @Liz who draftified for the second time. Triptothecottage (talk) 05:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Schools and Ghana. Triptothecottage (talk) 05:15, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
● Delete: I Have added some sources but they are mostly either unreliable, or don't have significant coverage. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 14:17, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources are interviews and not online sources. Thus, references were not attached. Samuel Ola (talk) 20:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interwiews are a primary source, in order for the article to be kept we need "significant coverage from reliable secondary sources". 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 13:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 06:42, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep There is a distinct lack of sourcing on the page, but we are told it was established in 1956 so this is a well established school, and this is born out by having an active old students association (WESGOSA) which helps verify several notable alumni already listed, including the first lady of Ghana [74]. So this is a school with significant notable alumni. It is also the case study school in this Ph.D. thesis [75] on learning styles and academic performance in Biology. This study [76] also uses the school as the experimental group in their study on teaching trigonometry. Although the secondary information about the schools in these studies is limited, they do add to the case that the school is significant, well established and of note within the community. There is also a lot of news paper coverage, as noted above. Those are primary sources. What remains lacking at this point is a good secondary source that verifies the information already on the page. If we had that, this would be a clear keep. I have not found that yet, but I think there is a suitable case, based on the notable alumni, the active old student association, and the academic references, to argue this crosses the line. (ETA: We do have this history, from a newspaper, written on the occasion of the school being 50 years old. [77] )Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:26, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete - for me there just are not enough suitable sources for !keep. I agree one might think there are sources for a school of this age, however I do not think we can move from draft without suitable sourcing. Given that it has moved back and forth from draft to main, it seems like the best option is !delete until such time someone can rewrite with sufficient sources to satisfy the AfC process. JMWt (talk) 11:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually yes, I had not spotted that draft back-and-forth. Perhaps the performer of the move can comment. On the basis of the lack of in page sourcing yet repeat moving to mainspace (making draftify unavailable as an ATD) I would be inclined to move to delete pending some explanation on that. Is there a redirect ATD available? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 12:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Samuel Ola: Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 12:06, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kenya

Afro fusion

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This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374	An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette	An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/	Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/	All of the article's material was copied from another blog	Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed	The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go	Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists	Article contains several quotations from Mango		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/	Semi-indepedent		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([78])
2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [79] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [80] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[81]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[82][83][84]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[85][86][87] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[88][89]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bernadine okoro
1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [90]
2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [91], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[92][93] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[94][95][96]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[97]. Also, I find this statement broad

“By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”

For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[98]

Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[99][100].
So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .

"but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [101] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[102] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [103]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [104].

Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.

Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.

The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).

I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.

"Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.

The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.

Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [105], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.

As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.

Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [106][107][108] [109][110][111]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [112]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [113]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[114] [115] [116]

Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [117] [118] and crossover [119] [120] [121] [122] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[123]

If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?

Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in 1 sentence in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [124]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[125]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."

As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlife kpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".

In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].

The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.

Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[126]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[127]

As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[128][129][130] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [131][132][133].

Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[134][135][136] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)

There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [137][138][139][140], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.

You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.

Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [141]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.

Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [142], [143] [144] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [145][146][147] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43

Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.

As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.

It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Kenya. dxneo (talk) 21:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Håvar Bauck

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Bio appears promotional, lacks verification from reputable sources, and does not meet the General Notability Guidelines BoraVoro (talk) 11:05, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Kenya, and Norway. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:53, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP - There seems to be more than enough references that are reliable and the notability criteria is met with significant, non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of each other to keep a posting about Håvar Bauck .I think that the page certainly is within the realm of the spirit of Wikipedia. Felixgfive (talk) 10:21, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- So this user claims a COI, but doesn't say with who, has just started their account, and has simply copied the notability language. Drmies (talk) 19:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Subject easily passes WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Article is clearly written in WP:NPOV. He is also a recognized voice of the travel industry in Kenya. Does the nominator consider major sources like Nation Media, Capital Business or BusinessDay (WP:NGRS) not reliable because they are African? ANairobian (talk) 09:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Techcrunch is an obviously reputable and reliable source. Skift and Phocuswire (by Northstar Travel Group) are reliable international travel publications. Daily Nation and Business Day are two of the most reputable newspapers in Kenya and Nigeria respectively. Capital Business is also widely recognized as a reliable Kenyan business news source. Ventureburn (by Memeburn) is a major Pan-African entrepreneurship news source. 197.254.70.206 (talk) 09:29, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting due to concerns of canvassing. One account was registered after this AfD had begun, the other account is also only about two weeks old, and the third is an IP editor.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 13:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Nobody asked me to write or vote here. I'm a new editor, but I've been observing and learning for a while. I came across the AfD in WP:KE and recognized the name because I've read about him, read several of his articles, and also seen him speaking at conferences. Definitely notable in my opinion. I personally don't think the article reads like an advertisement, but since at least two editors disagree, I took the liberty to make some small edits, toning down the language a bit and moving some supporting references immediately next to the parts about "first in Africa". Hope that does it!ANairobian (talk) 19:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment appears to have been WP:REFBOMBED with churnalism, press releases, self-published works and interviews. Does not appear to have any reliable sourcing. Can those seeking to keep this provide two reliable sources? Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm expecting that this gets relisted again to be honest. I have similar concerns to you. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:31, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Most of these sources used are in reputable publications, which should be fairly easy to verify, e.g several news stories in Finansavisen, a leading Norwegian business daily (Article 1, Article 2); Techcrunch (Article); Ventureburn (Article 1, Article 2); Capital Business (Article); Business Day (Article); Phocuswire (Article); The Exchange (Article 1, Article 2) 185.128.9.106 (talk) 05:51, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 14:25, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source 1 is fine and a RS, the rest are iffy. I'm not sure we're at notability. Oaktree b (talk) 15:46, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Too many promo sources, hardly any in RS. A Gsearch brings up the usual social media, venture funding PR items, not much in Gnews. I can't find enough SIGCOV that isn't PROMO. Oaktree b (talk) 15:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep few articles found notable but more to the company and as founder I find this one notable Norway article which is pretty much reliable, other 2 that discusses the founders can be generally accepted as secondary source, since company that he’s founded and of CEO has article over years. HarshalDhotre06 (talk) 13:25, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Make a policy based argument. It doesn't matter whether the company has an article or not, as notability is not inherited. WP:NINI Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 11:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for NINI I didn’t know about it yet. I’mm gonna make my comment in an hour based on NINI. HarshalDhotre06 (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:40, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Libya

Mauritius

Morocco

Rachid Ghanimi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I can't seem to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV on this player. This might be a WP:TOOSOON situation. In any case, it clearly fails WP:GNG. It was also draftified previously due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV, but the original creator moved the article to mainspace without changing anything. Anwegmann (talk) 03:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Anwegmann (talk) 03:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Morocco. Kpg jhp jm 04:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Fails WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV . Looking for sources only brings up stat pages like Transfermarkt and fbref . Kpg jhp jm 04:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 18:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nigeria

Kent Edunjobi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

An article about an individual that doesn't meet out general notability guidelines for inclusion of musicians, actors and as the case may be. The sources doesn't seem to be significantly covered and per se, have more of PR and paid writing. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Artists, and Nigeria. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Jeff Unaegbu

AfDs for this article:

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I came about this article during clean up and saw it's contains a bit vague and non verifiable content. Taking into cleaning up, I became tired at the line seeing almost if not all the sources lacks editorial guidelines, perhaps doesn't go with our policy and guidelines for reliable sources.

On the other hand, apart from the quality percentage of primary sources linking to book that were self published in the platforms such as Amazon, etc., the article generally doesn't meet WP:GNG, no WP:SIGCOV, and it contains a bit hoaxes that were made (those like references/acclaims which I have removed when cleaning part of the article). The article in general doesn't conform with Wikipedia's inclusion for authors, journalist too—since he edited a magazine and has written for some magazines per the article. Lacks verifiable source and seem looking like a advert/promotional/vaguely constructed source, and more.

The books he wrote doesn't meet our guidelines for books, so we may try redirecting or WP:PRESERVE albeit there is nothing to be preserved here. I also discovered the previous AFD that reads 'no consensus', and it seems there were no improvement or rather say; the previous AFD seeking for clean up which I've did to some part and found no substantial need for the inclusion of this article. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Authors, and Nigeria. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen Tedja

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Poorly sourced BLP on a footballer that only ever played one game. In my Arabic searches, I found Al-Sharq, a trivial mention, Kooora, which is no better, and this transfer announcement, which contains no significant detail. No sign of any WP:SIGCOV or even a passing of WP:SPORTBASIC #5. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Nigeria, and Qatar. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as I am unable to find sufficient coverage to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 00:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Doesn't meet WP:SPORTSBIO. Minimal fail! Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 14:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 14:22, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per above. Svartner (talk) 21:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clearly fails WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann (talk) 00:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as it not only fails WP:SIGCOV, but it is just a simple stub that has nothing notable about it. It also has just a single sentence that describes this player, with no other info to add. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 10:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adeseha Wuraola Becky

AfDs for this article:

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The subject of this article fails WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. She has not starred in a single notable film; a Google search of her doesn't show her being discussed in reliable secondary sources. Most of the sources cited in the article are primary sources that involve the subject granting interviews to several publications. The article was previously deleted via an afd discussion, which can be seen here. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 22:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, and Nigeria. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 22:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ejikeme Patrick Nwosu

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Page is advertising. It was deleted before in 2017, and does not seem to have been improved. Just getting a patent is not notable, it has to become a real product/method heavily used. Ldm1954 (talk) 12:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. Ldm1954 (talk) 12:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep:First off, most of the inventions shown on the page are dated AFTER 2017, showing that it has been tremendously improved from 2017 to 2024. I am wondering how you did not see that. Getting a patent is one thing but being mentioned by two succeeding presidents in reputable national newspapers does not seem to me that the subject is non-notable. The page is not advertising as there is no other way to show his inventions other than the tone used, unless you can provide a sample sentence for writing about inventors. His biogas is heavily used in Nigerian prisons to generate electricity and it was in partnership with no other than the Federal Government of Nigeria. There are more than twenty indepth national newspapers which describes his inventions too. So I am wondering how his notability is an issue. Royalrumblebee (talk) 12:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Bordering on G11 speedy, however he is notable and i believe that the article just needs to be cleaned up and have advertising removed. Nagol0929 (talk) 15:13, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 15:55, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I don't get the deletion. I suppose the advert has been removed or still at a least look. However, WP:GNG requires that the article must have covered by reliable sources that are also verifiable. All I can see per WP:NGRS in the sources to show this article meets our general notability guidelines and for creative professionals. I won't say "keep" or "delete" but mostly suggest clean up. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Expansion about nomination. First it is worth remembering that anyone can submit a patent, just as anyone can submit an abstract for a talk, the current ref [11]. Existence does not make the patents or work notable, there has to be reputable independent secondary evidence of this, of which there are none here, just requotes of material from him.
Secondly, claims need to be appropriate and consistent with established science. For instance the claim "single electrons and lone pairs are the major sources of toxicity in elements and compounds" is both a circular reference to his own work, and scientifically deeply unsound. Many other statements are scientifically very unsound (WP:FRINGE). If they were sound then there would be independent sources from reputable scientific journals to back them up, of which there are none.

Thirdly, references must at least be consistent with and support the claims. The article has the invalid science "vapor-like water that emanates from ice is another state of water different from vapor which emanates from hot water" sourced to [16] (which should be [18]) which is a primary source, 100% fringe science published in a disreputable journal.

Finally, Notability depends upon reliable, independent sources, and I see none of that here, just a lot of unsupported claims, reproductions of what he claims, masses of awful science (WP:FRINGE), and advertising/puffery. This is not WP:CREATIVE, claims have to be verifiable and not fringe (WP:FRINGE).
Ldm1954 (talk) 18:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: His fire proof paint is known offline. The application of his claims is largely recounted in the sources here. I'd say wiki articles about the sources show their reliability as per WP:GNG. Don't know how thick is his science or theory. Removing unsound scientific claims but retaining his verified applications would do.
Diamondsee (talk) 12:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paulin Basinga

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Appears PROMO. I don't see articles about this individual, only interviews or use of him as an expert on xyz health topic in various media. Odd that all sourcing here is from Nigeria, but none in the home country, possible "pay to publish" as we see typically in Nigerian media. I have my concerns, bringing ti AfD to discuss. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness and Rwanda. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Nigeria, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 15:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose!

In the beginning, I read about him and his works. For clarification, it may seem to be promo but factually it is not.

In facts, connectively, I read that in the home country he was a university lecturer, researcher and consultant. These can be limits to his articles other than interviews or use of him as an expert. But I considered it notable because he featured on international articles including those of World Bank and BMGF. It is referenced that later on, he has featured on other institutions such as Global Citizen and UGHE.

I do not see any problem with sources from Nigeria because based on reliable sources, it shows that his work in leadership role at BMGF were about Africa and the biggest office there was in Nigeria.

However, If we test him in Rwanda, below are some articles about him but there are in Kinyarwanda;

https://mobile.igihe.com/amakuru/u-rwanda/article/dr-paulin-basinga-yahawe-kuyobora-bill-melinda-gates-foundation-ishami-rya
https://igihe.com/amakuru/u-rwanda/article/live-rwanda-day-yatangiye-i-washington-dc-amafoto

Thanks. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oaktree b, a drive-by comment: are you insinuating that "pay-to-publish" determines the nature of Nigeria media. I can't see much coverage if not two from Nigerian source. Don't you think it's below the belt?
Back to deletion discussion! — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I never knew the story about Nigerian and Indian media, and I think we should not easily globalize because from this subject, mathematically, the sources from Nigerian media are less than 30%. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afro fusion

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374	An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette	An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/	Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/	All of the article's material was copied from another blog	Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed	The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go	Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists	Article contains several quotations from Mango		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/	Semi-indepedent		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([148])
2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [149] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [150] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[151]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[152][153][154]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[155][156][157] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[158][159]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bernadine okoro
1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [160]
2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [161], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[162][163] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[164][165][166]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[167]. Also, I find this statement broad

“By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”

For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[168]

Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[169][170].
So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .

"but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [171] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[172] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [173]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [174].

Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.

Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.

The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).

I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.

"Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.

The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.

Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [175], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.

As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.

Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [176][177][178] [179][180][181]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [182]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [183]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[184] [185] [186]

Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [187] [188] and crossover [189] [190] [191] [192] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[193]

If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?

Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in 1 sentence in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [194]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[195]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."

As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlife kpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".

In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].

The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.

Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[196]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[197]

As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[198][199][200] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [201][202][203].

Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[204][205][206] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)

There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [207][208][209][210], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.

You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.

Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [211]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.

Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [212], [213] [214] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [215][216][217] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43

Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.

As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.

It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Kenya. dxneo (talk) 21:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fredrick Nwabufo

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:MILL journalist, non-notable. Broc (talk) 09:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Journalism and Nigeria. Broc (talk) 09:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fredrick Nwabufo is Nigerian Journalist who have constantly conversed for good governance, improved security and commenting on national issues using journalism as well being a columnist on major National newspaper in Nigeria as a tool to disseminate his constant call for good governance and Patriotism. He is also currently the Senior Special Assistant to President Bola Tinubu on Public engagement where he is saddled with the responsibility of interfacing between the government and the Nigerian public.

I believe this article deserve a place on Wikipedia.

Thanks. AromeArome (talk) 22:01, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AromeArome How does this meet WP:NJOURNALIST or WP:NPOL? Broc (talk) 13:18, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:42, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seems to have had a reasonable amount of coverage to meet WP:GNG. He's also a senior advisor to the Nigerian president, so not really fair to call him a "run of the mill" journalist. Article needs NPOV cleanup, though. AusLondonder (talk) 12:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semzi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG or WP:NPRODUCER. Sources are either passing mentions, interviews, PRs, or not even mentioning the subject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: I'm almost certain the award nominations are notable, but we still need better sourcing for more biographical information. Oaktree b (talk) 15:25, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More research would be done to support article with more sourcing for biographical information. The subject is quite a notable individual with just probably limited press publications ReoMartins (talk) 18:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ReoMartins Well, now you’re taking. As far as I know, there are a lot of notable people in real life who can’t a Wikipedia entry because they don’t meet the necessary Wikipedia notability criteria. Wikipedia’s notability is not exactly real world notability. The current status of this article doesn’t meet up, not that they’re not notable or influential in real life. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The subject does not meet any criteria outlined in WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. None of the sources cited in the article actually discuss the subject. His nominations at the Beatz Awards aren't enough to justify a stand-alone article. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 15:00, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: I agree with Oaktree B that this is a weak keep due to the award nominations. His other sources are weak.Maxcreator (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: and mark as promised. Majority of the sources in the article doesn't meet SIGCOV and while the awards merits notability: it's still not much for a standalone entry on Wikipedia. I will remove some sources that didn't add to notability. For my vote (if draftified) can be marked as "promising", since there is a partial way to notability in the future! Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 20:40, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table:
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/02/bad-boy-timz-is-one-of-nigerias-best-singers-ive-worked-with-semzi/amp/	Was talking about the subject	Vanguard is reliable per WP:NGRS	~ Much like an about music interview	~ Partial
https://guardian.ng/saturday-magazine/weekend-beats/producing-songs-for-davido-mayorkun-the-highlight-of-my-career-so-far-semzi/	Ditto	Guardian Nigeria is reliable per WP:NGRS	Normally, Weekend Beats sounds like PR	✘ No
https://the49thstreet.com/49th-exclusive-semzi/	Above	Blog sites	Interview and blog post	✘ No
https://pan-african-music.com/en/nigerian-producers-2022/	~ A list that mentions articles, more of featuring, no PR here	~ See editorial	List	✘ No
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/review-dj-consequence-vibes-from-the-future/jhle44r	No mention	Per WP:NGRS	No mention	✘ No
https://culturecustodian.com/bad-boy-timzs-mj/	No mention	Ditto	No mention	✘ No
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/11/nicki-minaj-nas-ifeanyi-adeleke-feature-on-davidos-a-better-time-album/	No metion	Per above	No mention of the subject	✘ No
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/mayorkun-features-victony-on-holy-father/jbrp0lg	Ditto	See above	No mention	✘ No
https://www.okayafrica.com/joeboy-drops-new-music-album/	No mention	Okay Africa is reliable	Applied same as above	✘ No
https://www.morebranches.com/omah-lay-couples-with-more-emotions-on-the-deluxe-version-of-boy-alone/	No mention	Not a reliable source, blog or PR	Same as above	✘ No
https://guardian.ng/life/listen-ajebo-hustlers-featuring-fave-in-love/	Mention!	Why not?	More like PR—get away magazine mention; just mention	✘ No
https://culturecustodian.com/bad-boy-timz-serves-new-visuals-for-faya-from-empires-where-we-come-from-vol-1-compilation-album/	Passing mention	Per WP:NGRS	Inherent mention	✘ No
https://www.max1023.fm/boy-spyce-releases-new-single-relationship/	Les or no mention	Max FM is a Lagos based television channel	Inherent notability only on Boy Source	✘ No
https://culturecustodian.com/no-bad-boy-no-party-highlights-significant-moments-in-bad-boy-timzs-journey/	Passing mention	Culture custodian is a reliable source	Still on production. Inherent notability	✘ No
https://soundcity.tv/afropop-sensation-bad-boy-timz-unveils-debut-album-no-bad-boy-no-party/	Focuses on Bad Boy Time, a Nigerian artist	Sound City TV is a Nigerian television music channel	Focus lacking on the subject	✘ No
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/victony-features-14-artists-on-new-song-ohema/8988dbp	Passing mention	Like above	Doesn't meet notability	✘ No
https://randr.ng/nominations-list-the-beatz-award-2021/	List	Rhythm and Rhyme is a blog site	List	✘ No
https://thebeatzawards.com/winners-perfecto/	~ List	For the award but not for other citations	Being nominated doesn't mean notability. Per WP:ENT, the subject must have been nominated multiple times of a major award	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Delete: After analysis of the source above, I was convinced of the many "passing mentions", "no mention" and more generated in citing sources relating to PR. Nothing to draftify again. It doesn't meet WP:THREE for sources, WP:GNG and WP:PRODUCER. Each of the sources either mention, or not at all, or about a music one of an artist he had worked for previously. Delete is the "best" alternative. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 13:22, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In one of the discussions and sources, it submits an evidence about this act who just recently co-produced a track that has over ten credible and notable artistes from Sub-Sahara Africa featured. These artistes have their wiki pages, I believe the professional who takes up the task to fuse these different acts into a single musical project is worthy of an article on Wikipedia as well. ReoMartins (talk) 13:19, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ReoMartins It is imperative for you to know that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason for you to think an article should be kept. You should also importantly see WP:INHERITED. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:08, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:19, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liz, there is already a consensus here if by analysis of the arguments above. Isn't see the reason for relisting. Most importantly, the keep isn't strong enough or showed how the article meets inclusion. The source table can also be reviewed to see blatant addition of sources that doesn't mention the article. (Just a 'simpler' suggestion. ) — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mazakuka mosque shooting

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Non-notable crime, no sustained coverage beyond the sequence of events. Wikipedia is not a repository of news stories. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Events, Terrorism, and Nigeria. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Given the political situation in Nigeria, this almost certainly can be selectively merged/redirected somewhere (and given the relatively high death toll and the fact it's terrorism I feel it should be noted, somewhere, though not as its own article) however there is not enough detail in the article itself for me to suggest a target. Hm. I'll look into that later. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:06, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No lasting coverage to meet WP:EVENT. LibStar (talk) 10:07, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Satisfies WP:GNG. Seventeen deaths is significant. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:29, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The number of deaths is not a criterion for notability and needs lasting coverage to meet WP:EVENT. LibStar (talk) 22:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Say that about any such attack in a western country and you'd be laughed out of court! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:47, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As an admin you should know it's not a criterion. Secondly, WP:NOTNEWS overrides GNG, otherwise every event reported in the news would get an article. Have you found any lasting coverage? LibStar (talk) 22:22, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Really? WP:SYSTEMIC isn't a criterion now? I beg to differ. And since when does anything override GNG? -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:47, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was a fire near my home that was reported in the media, it may satisfy GNG but it is definitely a case of not news. Have you found any evidence of lasting coverage of this shooting? Did you bother to look? LibStar (talk) 08:23, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article may meet GNG but consensus is showing NOTNEWS. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 Ujjain rape case. LibStar (talk) 08:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relevant how? A single rape against the multiple murder of seventeen people. Both horrendous but not comparing like with like. -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
knowing you, you would argue GNG in this rape case. Have you found any evidence of lasting coverage of this shooting? LibStar (talk) 22:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about this shooting? 2023 Beverly Crest shooting, meets GNG but NOTNEWS applies. LibStar (talk) 23:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I take it from you avoiding the question of finding lasting coverage of this shooting that you did a thorough search and could not find anything. Or you'll invent some sort of excuse. If 17 deaths is significant, is 2 or 3 deaths insignificant? Or if you can point to a notability criteria that grants notability for 17 deaths. Thanks in advance. LibStar (talk) 08:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

knowing you, you would argue GNG in this rape case. You don't know me. Stop making incorrect assumptions and WP:AGF. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:18, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Know you? I think to clarify I know your voting intentions to always vote keep. LibStar (talk) 03:59, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you actually found lasting coverage to meet WP:EVENT? It is extremely disturbing that you continually avoid this question. The Beverly Crest shooting got deleted as per NOTNEWS even though it might have met GNG. LibStar (talk) 09:29, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also refer to WP:SUSTAINED which also says we don't create articles on news events. LibStar (talk) 11:32, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 2021 in Nigeria. If we end up with WP:SUSTAINED coverage in the future, we can always spin this back out. -- asilvering (talk) 03:55, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 21:58, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete WP:NOTNEWS, WP:LASTING, WP:DEPTH. LizardJr8 (talk) 00:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Asilvering, or smerge (selectively merge) as needed. Bearian (talk) 18:44, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Nigerian bandit conflict#2021. This seems to have been part of Nigeria's banditry/ethnic issues more broadly, and the sources discuss it in that context. PARAKANYAA (talk) 20:14, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus here yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. There is no consensus here, there is even more than one Merge/Redirect target article mentioned here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nigeria proposed deletions

Nigeria miscellany for deletion

Rwanda

Paulin Basinga

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Appears PROMO. I don't see articles about this individual, only interviews or use of him as an expert on xyz health topic in various media. Odd that all sourcing here is from Nigeria, but none in the home country, possible "pay to publish" as we see typically in Nigerian media. I have my concerns, bringing ti AfD to discuss. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness and Rwanda. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Nigeria, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 15:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose!

In the beginning, I read about him and his works. For clarification, it may seem to be promo but factually it is not.

In facts, connectively, I read that in the home country he was a university lecturer, researcher and consultant. These can be limits to his articles other than interviews or use of him as an expert. But I considered it notable because he featured on international articles including those of World Bank and BMGF. It is referenced that later on, he has featured on other institutions such as Global Citizen and UGHE.

I do not see any problem with sources from Nigeria because based on reliable sources, it shows that his work in leadership role at BMGF were about Africa and the biggest office there was in Nigeria.

However, If we test him in Rwanda, below are some articles about him but there are in Kinyarwanda;

https://mobile.igihe.com/amakuru/u-rwanda/article/dr-paulin-basinga-yahawe-kuyobora-bill-melinda-gates-foundation-ishami-rya
https://igihe.com/amakuru/u-rwanda/article/live-rwanda-day-yatangiye-i-washington-dc-amafoto

Thanks. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oaktree b, a drive-by comment: are you insinuating that "pay-to-publish" determines the nature of Nigeria media. I can't see much coverage if not two from Nigerian source. Don't you think it's below the belt?
Back to deletion discussion! — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I never knew the story about Nigerian and Indian media, and I think we should not easily globalize because from this subject, mathematically, the sources from Nigerian media are less than 30%. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rwanda proposed deletions

Senegal

Somalia

Haramad Special Police Force

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This was just accepted via AfC (see User_talk:Bkissin#Haramad_Special_Police_Force but Bkissin wasn't aware of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Abdiaziizho/Archive. It is not technically a G5 although I read it as such, so bringing it here for more eyes. Would not object to a redirect to Somali_Police_Force#Haramad_Special_Police_Force although that is unsourced. I don't know if any editors here who read Somali but please feel free to ping them here without a canvassing concern as there is literally nothing but the above and some mirrors in an English ~~source~~ search. Star Mississippi 23:59, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Law, Organizations, Police, and Somalia. Star Mississippi 23:59, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete: Close enough to G5 for me. Frankly, we should put a note on a sock blocked's drafts so that they don't come up like this. Or delete them when blocking. - UtherSRG (talk) 01:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/Redirect per nomination. Also to add on sockpuppet (re)creation by sockpuppets I'd leave the draft open to catch newer sockpuppets.--A09|(talk) 20:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Concar

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Lacking sufficient in-depth coverage in secondary sources to demonstrate notability. Sources are purely mentions of his appointments. Fails WP:NBIO. AusLondonder (talk) 07:09, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Somalia-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:14, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Ambassadors are not inherently notable, not seeing significant coverage to meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 06:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Jetways Airlines Fokker 50 crash

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Per WP:NOTNEWS. No evidence of lasting coverage. Not notable. PROD template was removed with ZERO improvement. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 17:08, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Aviation, and Somalia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect to 2024 in aviation Kvng (talk · contribs) left clear feedback on why the PROD was removed; "Removed PROD tag: Deletion contested, consider merge or redirect to 2024 in aviation as preferred WP:ATD". They clearly felt that was better than having an article deleted and you should take their advice rather than dismissing it as 'zero improvement' because they obviously feel the same in that it shouldn't be its own article. Edit summaries are not there to just test your typing and should be read, not dismissed. Nate • (chatter) 20:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You don't get it. Even if you merge some of the content, this SHOULD be deleted.

Edit summaries are not there to just test your typing and should be read, not dismissed

I know what edit summaries do. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 20:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete — routine coverage without lasting effects so NOTNEWS. I have no objection to merging/redirecting the article. Toadette ^{(Let's talk together!)} 20:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'~~Delete'~~: as nom. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 20:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Struck duplicate vote It is assumed by your nomination you're asking for deletion, and you cannot vote twice. Nate • (chatter) 20:43, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
sorry. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 21:23, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@MrSchimpf Now I'm not socking am I? It's just a reinstatement of my opinion. Editors do this all of the time. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 21:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have unstruck it, and will only strike it back when I get a third opinion. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 21:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted; we do not allow duplicate votes, and the third opinion will agree (and I certainly did not accuse you of socking). Do not do this again, and assume good faith. Nate • (chatter) 22:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say you did. I said I wasn't. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 22:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The third opinion agreed with me. Let's keep this unstruck. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 18:44, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Delete as nom" !votes are common, I see no reason to strike this (and have thus unstruck it). Rosbif73 (talk) 06:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate votes (and triple votes, etc.) are always struck. Your deletion nomination is your "vote". We don't allow duplicate votes at any deletion discussions. This is common knowledge for editors who regularly participate at AFDs. Do not "unstrike" it. This has nothing to do with sockpuppetry it's because nominators are not allowed to vote twice. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Go ahead. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 02:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/redirect to 2024 in aviation as per original response to the PROD. No evidence of lasting coverage but a redirect could still be useful as this incident did get coverage in primary sources. Esolo5002 (talk) 22:57, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: a summary of the crash is already on 2024 in aviation but there's nothing to merge as mentions on the year in aviation are always kept brief. A redirect would not be useful, and indeed non-notable crashes are often removed from the year in aviation pages. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:20, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No point in redirecting to 2024 in aviation if in the end the topic doesn't have an article.

Fails WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE and WP:SUSTAINED. WP:NOTNEWS. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Redirect not necessary as a fairly unlikely search term. Lacking significant coverage in secondary sources. AusLondonder (talk) 09:27, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i think it would be better to have it be a merge/redirect due to it being notable enough to be on 2024 in aviation but not notable enough for its own article mainly due to its lack of coverage outside of some sources. IDKUggaBanga (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to weigh Deletion vs. a Merge/Redirect.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I also would have PROD this, non-notable incident. Little to no coverage, very little long-term effects. Oaktree b (talk) 04:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletions

South Africa

Nkosana Makate

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Product of WP:BLP1E. Yes, the subject has been making the news in the past few months but this is all just 15 minutes of fame. WP:ATD, a redirect to Vodacom#"Please Call Me" would make sense. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, Technology, Africa, and South Africa. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Linda Thwala

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found were transactional announcements (1, 2). JTtheOG (talk) 21:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 21:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Johan Fritz

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 21:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby league, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 21:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marcelle Slabbert

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby league, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zwartbosch Private Nature Reserve

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No evidence of notability, tagged since 2019 Greenman (talk) 10:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Environment and South Africa. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:54, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Skynxnex (talk) 16:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I cannot find any sources other than maps and Tripadvisor listings. Does not meet [WP:GNG]] nor WP:CORP. LizardJr8 (talk) 16:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leighton van Wyk

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 06:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 06:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clinton Theron

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG. All that comes up in my searches are trivial mentions in match reports and lineup announcements. JTtheOG (talk) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rinus Bothma

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 04:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 04:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Luke Rossouw

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG. All that comes up in my searches are trivial mentions in match reports and lineup announcements. JTtheOG (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A reasonable amount of coverage, but not enough to suggest a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Mente

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union referee, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 19:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 19:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Griffin Colby

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union referee, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 18:57, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 18:57, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Luan Nieuwoudt

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 02:56, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 02:56, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:45, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bader Pretorius

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 01:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 01:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There's this and this along with other coverage in South African and European media. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okuhle Siyeni

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The most I found was a few sentences of coverage here in a larger story about South African high schools "poaching" rugby players. JTtheOG (talk) 22:19, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 22:19, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nico du Plessis

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The closest thing to WP:SIGCOV are transactional announcements (1, 2) JTtheOG (talk) 04:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 04:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:39, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shaine Orderson

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found were trivial mentions (1, 2, 3, etc.) JTtheOG (talk) 04:41, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 04:41, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:40, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deroy Rhoode

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The subject is a South African rugby union player who has not received enough coverage to meet WP:GNG. All that came up in searches were trivial mentions (1, 2, etc.) JTtheOG (talk) 23:44, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:41, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Riaan Engelbrecht

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Not to be confused with the author of the same name. JTtheOG (talk) 19:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Amature player with minimal coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 16:24, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cavarrone 18:13, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Phumza Mntungwa

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African cricketer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Cricket, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 19:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Boland representative cricketers Looks to fail WP:GNG. Suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 19:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sihle Magongoma

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African cricketer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:06, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Cricket, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 19:06, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Eastern Province representative cricketers Looks to fail WP:GNG. Suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:54, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 19:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chaney Willemse

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 19:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete There's this and a couple of other bits, but one more good source would be nice for a keep. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cavarrone 15:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tythan Adams

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep' There's this and a few other bits from his time in Scotland, just enough for a keep for me but close. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cavarrone 15:24, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chadley Wenn

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 18:18, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 18:18, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Griffons (rugby union) where the subject is already mentioned. ~Kvng (talk) 14:18, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see this as a suitable redirect, as linking to a current squad (which he might not be part of next season) isn't a good long term option in my opinion. If there was a list of Griffons players article I'd suggest that, but we don't have such lists. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's a trade off between supporting a possible search term today and creating future astonishment. I'm going to leave my !vote as it is because right now I care more about today. ~Kvng (talk) 20:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to settle view on a possible Redirect as an ATD.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:07, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Does not appear to meet GNG, and no suitable longterm redirects are available. JoelleJay (talk) 21:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ewart Potgieter

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found a transactional announcement, as well as coverage of an alleged criminal incident in Spain (1, 2, etc.), but nothing substantial. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep Think there's just about enough in the Spanish coverage combined with other bits for a weak WP:GNG pass. No real suitable redirect per WP:ATD here though. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:57, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Amiras

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found this transactional announcement and this interview. JTtheOG (talk) 16:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 16:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Along with the interview provided, there's also this, just about enough for a WP:GNG pass. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:50, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:50, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afro fusion

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This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374	An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette	An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/	Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion.		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/	All of the article's material was copied from another blog	Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed	The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246			The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go	Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists	Article contains several quotations from Mango		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/	Semi-indepedent		The source does not discuss the genre whatsover	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([218])
2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [219] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [220] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[221]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[222][223][224]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[225][226][227] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[228][229]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bernadine okoro
1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [230]
2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [231], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[232][233] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[234][235][236]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[237]. Also, I find this statement broad

“By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”

For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[238]

Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[239][240].
So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .

"but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [241] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[242] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [243]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [244].

Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.

Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.

The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).

I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.

"Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.

The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.

Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [245], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.

As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.

Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [246][247][248] [249][250][251]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [252]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [253]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[254] [255] [256]

Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [257] [258] and crossover [259] [260] [261] [262] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[263]

If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?

Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in 1 sentence in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [264]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[265]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."

As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlife kpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".

In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].

The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.

Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[266]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[267]

As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[268][269][270] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [271][272][273].

Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[274][275][276] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)

There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [277][278][279][280], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.

You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.

Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [281]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.

Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [282], [283] [284] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [285][286][287] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43

Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."

Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.

As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.

It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pretoria Wireless Users Group

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I was unable to find any mention of this organization anywhere, hence seems to fail WP:ORGCRIT. Virtually all the news about this organization comes from 'mybroadband.co.za', a rather niche trade publication focused on broadband which does not appear in the searches. Allan Nonymous (talk) 04:16, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ginter Smuts

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 03:44, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep Quite a lengthy bio here. Would love one more obvious source, but playing at the highest level still so opportunity for more. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid, this "lengthy" bio is no more than a typical listing about a rugby player in a rugby magazine. -The Gnome (talk) 15:54, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Plenty of match reports on .za (South Africa) websites, but I don't see anything about this player by himself. Not enough sourcing for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 23:12, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. A single routine profile of unknown independence is not enough to meet GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 22:05, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Subject fails WP:GNG and WP:RU/N. -The Gnome (talk) 15:54, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dian Badenhorst

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 03:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep There's this and this which are both ok sources, enough for a weak keep in my opinion. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:13, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. A routine, brief profile on a site of unknown independence and a routine transfer report with 3 sentences of coverage are not sufficient to meet GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 22:10, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete since subject fails WP:GNG and is not saved by WP:RU/N. -The Gnome (talk) 15:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tyler Bocks

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 19:13, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Weak delete~~Weak keep Looks to be case of WP:TOOSOON on my part, although passed the old WP:NRU guidelines. Lots of coverage including this abut more needed for a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD also. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:04, 3 April 2024 (UTC) Change vote to weak keep on additional sourcing found, players career starting to kick off also which may well lead to more sourcing. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:35, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Seems notable enough. Found a couple of sources, including from the two major online media organisations, which I've added. Greenman (talk) 20:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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South Africa Proposed deletions

Also check the list at WP:PRODSUM

Sudan

Tanzania

Alenga Charles

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This comes across as WP:TOOSOON, as the player is young and only getting started. That said, this article clearly fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:GNG as it stands right now. Several searches hardly brought up databases, much less anything of substance. Anwegmann (talk) 03:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: There are quite number of sources though primary and silent meet out criteria for media coverage. The article may be notable in the future. But for now, WP:NOTJUSTYET. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Concar

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Lacking sufficient in-depth coverage in secondary sources to demonstrate notability. Sources are purely mentions of his appointments. Fails WP:NBIO. AusLondonder (talk) 07:09, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Ambassadors are not inherently notable, not seeing significant coverage to meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 06:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Africa

Africa

Africa Proposed deletions

Algeria

Algeria Proposed deletions

Angola

Cameroon

Democratic Republic of the Congo

Egypt

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Ethiopia

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