Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Giant Horde Beast Nezura

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Nezura 1964. Seddon talk 20:25, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Giant Horde Beast Nezura

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Giant Horde Beast Nezura (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Per WP:NFF: "Similarly, films produced in the past which were either not completed or not distributed should not have their own articles, unless their failure was notable per the guidelines." This unproduced film is non-notable. Most of the sources cited are either user generated sources (blogs) or books but hardly cite a specific page. No sources cited at all for the plot either. Additionally, Nezura's production is already covered in detail in the Gamera, the Giant Monster article with reliable sources. So this article's existence isn't warranted. Armegon (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Armegon (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Armegon (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Armegon (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Covered it the book The Big Book of Japanese Giant Monster Movies: The Lost Films [[1]] Donaldd23 (talk) 21:07, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not a good enough reason to keep. That book mentions lots of "lost" films that don't warrant an article. Nezura fails WP:NFILM. Nezura is already covered thoroughly with verified sources in Gamera, the Giant Monster, so the article isn't needed. Armegon (talk) 21:24, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with all of that. Just because something is mentioned in another article doesn't mean it doesn't deserve its own article. Coverage in books is definitely an inclusion criteria for Wikipedia. This discussion will determine what other editors think about this. In addition, as this is not a released film, WP:NFILM does not apply. Donaldd23 (talk) 21:55, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong. WP:NFF does apply because it is an INCOMPLETE film. It clearly states: "Similarly, films produced in the past which were either NOT COMPLETED or not distributed should not have their own articles, unless their failure was notable per the guidelines." Armegon (talk) 22:53, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NFF and WP:NFILM are different. NFF applies, NFILM does not. You said NFF in the nomination, but then NFILM in your rebuttal. They are not the same. Donaldd23 (talk) 23:01, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn’t matter. Both equally apply because Nezura does not meet the requirements for NFF & NFILM. There’s nothing of significance here that merits an entire article that Gamera’s production section already covers in greater detail and with reliable sources. This article is just WP:FAN, only important toa small number of fans. Armegon (talk) 01:33, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:27, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep, drafitfy or merge to Nezura 1964. First, a technical note to the nom that WP:DRAFTIFY could have been used instead of an AfD - not that I am saying this would've been better since then I'd not see this. Second. Ja wiki article is longer and has a longer history/significance section, but it is mostly poorly referenced. One reference that may suggest notability is a Japanese book here: [2]. But we need someone proficient in Japanese to judge whether it and other Japanese sources that may exist are helpful here. Third. The Big Book of Japanese Giant Monster Movies: The Lost Films is cited in our article but without a page number, sigh, and sadly, Google Book preview has 'no preview', so copyright makes things hard. Fortunately, there are solutions. The book has a two-page discussion of the movie, which is enough to pass WP:SIGCOV. It's just one source, but I find the discussion there in-depth and indicative of the existence of other sources, sadly, the book has no footnotes or such so it is not possible to guess which (presumably Japanese) sources the author used. While WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES is noted, I am reasonably sure that there are (presumably Japanese) sources for this that were used by the authors of the English book (maybe the Japanese book I linked above is one). As such, I think this is likely a notable movie (and I encourage the author to use the English book to expand it further). Ping me if more sources are found and I'll revise my vote, hopefully to a full "keep". PS. Unfortunately, I run into a problem - CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform is WP:SPS (the newest edition of this book is published by something called Bicep Books, but the previous are obvious SPS from CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform, and as for Bicep Books I can't find out anything about them, even that they have a webpage, so...). I still think it is likely there are reliable Japanese sources, the English book states that " The horde of dead rats was burned with gasoline and was a highly talked about event in Japanese film circles. Some sources even claim the staff held a memorial service for the rats", "had it not been for Giant Horde Beast Nezura, the monster Gamera would have never been created. Not wanting to waste the elaborate miniatures created for filming" as well as "had it not been for Giant Horde Beast Nezura, the monster Gamera would have never been created. Not wanting to waste the elaborate miniatures created for filming", and the latter can be confirmed by the information present in the article. This is likely a notable "lost film", but currently undersourced or sourced to unreliable platforms (and we have to entertain the possibility that sources that are SPS are hoaxes). If this is not going to be improved, I suggest draftification (or merger to Nezura 1964). I'd like to improve it myself but I think any sources that may help are in Japanese and I am not fluent in it enough to carry out a search. I am disappointed that GScholar search for 大群獣ネズラ yields nothing, and search for だいぐんじゅうネズラ gives [3] which is likely off-topic. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support to merge. There are very little sources to merit a full article. Information supported by English reliable sources are already covered in Gamera, the Giant Monster but those details can be added to Nezura 1964 as well since it's a film that's been completed and released. And to clarify, Nezura is not a "lost" film. It seems they briefly began production on the rat footage but were shut down by the health department. Additionally, that's as far as its notability goes. So it makes sense to merge it with Nezura 1964. Armegon (talk) 08:02, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Armegon, Good point, the film was never finished, so it is not "lost". Unless the 20m or so of the footage in question is lost, then I guess it would be lost? But I don't recall sources discussing the fate of the footage. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:07, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. None of the reliable English sources I've come across have mentioned whether that footage was lost or not. Regardless, it'd be best to merge the article with Nezura 1964. '64 is about the production behind the original Nezura, so it would make sense for the body to shed light on the original that inspired Nezura 1964. Armegon (talk) 07:47, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should redirect the page to Nezura 1964 (with added production info on this film. - Eiga-Kevin2
I think it will redirect regardless once it merges with 1964. Does this mean you're in support of a merge too? Armegon (talk) 17:15, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes @Armegon - Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 8:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep Enough coverage exists for keeping. It is has historical significance. Peter303x (talk) 00:53, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge - merge to Nezura 1964 as proposed above. Kolma8 (talk) 09:47, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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