User talk:Qwerfjkl/Archive 42

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Hello. Your bot added two line breaks when implementing Task 26 on a talk page. Could you look into this? Thanks. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, I think I know what caused this (when it adds the WPBS, it first removes the WikiProjects, leaving behind newlines). Is it a big issue? — Qwerfjkltalk 19:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Well as you can see here, this creates a gap between the two templates. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:07, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, okay, hopefully I've fixed that, I'll just test to see if it works. — Qwerfjkltalk 20:21, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Seems to work. — Qwerfjkltalk 20:24, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

 Thanks! InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:26, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

On Talk:11th National Defence Commission and Talk:10249 Harz, the bot didn't incorporate the existing banner and rating into the banner shell, merely adding an unrated shell on top. This makes it show as unassessed. PARAKANYAA (talk) 15:45, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

PARAKANYAA, these have two totally separate causes. Talk:11th National Defence Commission is because {{WikiProject North Korea}} isn't (technically speaking) a WikiProject banner: it's a wrapper template. I'll modify my code to recognise it correctly.
Talk:10249 Harz is caused by the double space in the template name. Apparently "WikiProject Astronomy" is the same as {{WikiProject Astronomy}} (the extra space is stripped). So is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:WikiProject_______________________Astronomy. I'll update my code to recognise this. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! PARAKANYAA (talk) 16:06, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kanashimi, you might be interested in these bugs. — Qwerfjkltalk 18:11, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. I've also changed the settings. Kanashimi (talk) 21:41, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

PARAKANYAA, both of these problems should be fixed now. — Qwerfjkltalk 21:36, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much :) PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:52, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

You tested it again and it seems to have undone it. Hm. PARAKANYAA (talk) 16:43, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

PARAKANYAA, yes, I know. I was trying to catch more WikiProjects that I missed, but there seems to be a bug in the code (it takes over an hour to run the code that fetches all the wikiprojects, so I left it to run). — Qwerfjkltalk 18:21, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Hah, I added the subcategories of Category:WikiProject banner wrapper templates but forgot to add the category itself. Should be fixed now. — Qwerfjkltalk 18:26, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

User:ToadetteEdit still has not processed their CfD closures on 30 December, would you be willing to do so? Marcocapelle (talk) 17:24, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Marcocapelle,  Done. — Qwerfjkltalk 19:13, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi. The CfD slipped out of my watchlist so I just saw that Marcocapelle already did the purging per the closure. You noted yesterday that it'd been listed for bot renaming, but I'm not seeing it. Perhaps the edit failed? --Paul_012 (talk) 11:22, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Paul 012, it's defnitely there, trying searching for "Category:Photographic collections and books". — Qwerfjkltalk 18:22, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. I somehow missed it. --Paul_012 (talk) 03:19, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

Discussions

• New request for comments: Community request for the development team to access inverse properties on client wikis. (Summary: We currently cannot access inverse property values on Wikipedia. This can be a data management issue on Wikipedia as we must always ask ourself if we must introduce an inverse property for cases where we need them. So I think it’s useful to gather the usecases community would want and draft a request for an API to the devteam to do that.)

Events

• Upcoming: The next Wikidata+Wikibase office hours will take place on Wednesday, 16:00 UTC on Wednesday, 17th January 2024 (18:00 Berlin time) in the Wikidata Telegram group. The Wikidata and Wikibase office hours are online events where the development team presents what they have been working on over the past quarter, and the community is welcome to ask questions and discuss important issues related to the development of Wikidata and Wikibase.
• Past
  • Provenance Loves Wiki (PLW24), Jan 12th - 14th, research and data on the origin of artworks and cultural heritage and how Wikibase and Wikidata can support this.
  • WikiLovesWomen #SheSaid campaign wrapped up the 2023 campaign by visiting Kinshasha and Kisangani, where local Wikimedians improved quotes from women on FR Wikipedia and Wikidata.

Press, articles, blog posts, videos

• Blogs
  • Building Connected Libraries in Nigeria: --> Reflections from the Wikibase Journey on collaboration and resouce sharing between Nigerian Libraries.
  • Wikidata and ChatGPT integration failure --> read about Finn Årup Nielsen's attempts to integrate LLM's with Wikidata.
  • QLever: a new way to query OpenStreetMap --> Discussion of the new opportunities offered by QLever to query OpenStreetMap and to run federated queries with Wikidata
  • Wikidata for authority control: 3 years of work --> The three-year Wikidata for authority control project, a collaboration between Wikimedia Sverige and Swedish museums, concluded in December 2023. It equipped museum staff with tools and skills to integrate their authority databases with Wikidata, resulting in added identifiers, SPARQL query proficiency, and enhanced knowledge sharing within the GLAM sector.
  • Go-ahead for Wikidata Project of GLAM institutions from Baden-Württemberg --> The GLAM-BW project, under "GLAM goes OpenData," connects major collections in Baden-Württemberg, focusing on the württembergische Kunstkammer. With over 3,000 objects, the project integrates information on collectors, histories, and objects into a knowledge graph for semantic searches, contributing to the broader realm of linked open data, akin to Wikidata.
  • Swiss GLAM Programme --> Wikimedia CH imported the Museum of Natural History of Neuchâtel's urchin fossil casts to Wikimedia Commons, connecting structured data on Wikidata. The project involved data cleaning, adding missing elements, and file imports via OpenRefine, highlighting seamless integration between Wikidata and Commons.
• Papers
  • Reflections on the PCC Wikidata Pilot at UCLA Library: --> Undertaking the PCC Learning Objectives. Discusses the 14-month Pilot programme for cooperative cataloguing of UCLA Library and Museum Collections. By E. Zhang, P. Biswas & I. Dagher.
  • Few-Shot Event Classification in Images using Knowledge Graphs for Prompting --> How can Wikidata and Wikipedia help Vision-Language Models improve their classification of images. Tahmasebzadeh et al., 2024.
• Videos
  • SMWCon 2023: Semantics, Wikis, and AI --> Day 1, Keynote by Prof. Markus Krötzsch who explores origins and principles of semantic wikis and key challenges that lie ahead in managing knowledge.
  • GLAM on Tour 2023 im Museum Barberini (German) --> find out what Museums have got to do with Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons and Wikidata. More Info Here.
• Interactive notebooks: GLAM : Geolocated and Labelled Articles Map - explore Featured and Good Wikipedia articles through a map, powered by Wikidata.

Tool of the week

• Brian M Sperlongano released US boundary QA checker, a quality assurance tool for finding issues with boundary data in the United States by using Wikidata, OpenStreetMap, and US Census Bureau data.
• The Surrounding Ocean (available at vrandezo.github.io/TheSurroundingOcean) - is a tool that allows you to browse lexicographical data. You can use the tool to explore words and their meanings, translations, and synonyms. The tool is currently under development, and the developer, Danny, would appreciate feedback to fix any issues with the tool. More info: Wikidata:The Surrounding Ocean.

Other Noteworthy Stuff

• OS-Wikidata Map Framework List of tools and maps which combines OSM and Wikidata.
• Call for Projects and Mentors for Google Summer of Code 2024 and Outreachy Round 28 is OPEN!
• Got an idea for a project to reclaim the public nature of the internet? With Wikidata? NLNet has a new fund you could apply to.

Newest properties and property proposals to review

• Newest General datatypes: none
• Newest External identifiers: Walk Score ID, HistoriaGames game ID, ‎Deutsche Bahn station number, Legends Tour player ID, Moscow Cultural Heritage ID, USOPC Hall of Fame ID, Cathopedia article ID, ‎TouchArcade game ID, ‎DoblajeVideojuegos game ID, ‎Adventure-Treff game ID, Biota of New Zealand ID, Consortium of Bryophyte Herbaria taxon ID, Consortium of Lichen Herbaria taxon ID, Native Plants Hawaii ID, SERNEC taxon ID, TORCH taxon ID, Penstemon Database ID, Digicarmel ID, ‎Retskrivningsordbogen ID, MAMCS artwork ID, Sofascore player ID, ‎Mod.io game ID, Sina Chinese Basketball player ID, turismo.marche.it place ID
• New General datatypes property proposals to review:
  • describes (Data objects that are described by this entity (e.g. an encyclopedia or topic-related book; intended for input of several data objects.))
  • memory type (specifies the type of working memory of this data object)
  • filial church (church which acts as the less important temple of a parish)
  • TOPO id (unique code to identify topographical features of France (department, city, thoroughfare...))
• New External identifier property proposals to review: Bluesky handle, Merkur author ID, Bavarian school ID, Rugby Database ID, Playstation Store Concept ID, ArchDaily Architecture Office ID, Il Nuovo De Mauro ID, Bluesky DID

Did you know?

• Query examples:
  • Historical events by a city sorted by importance (source)
  • Bubble chart showing countries with the highest number of children out of school in 2013 (source)
  • Timeline of writing systems and alphabets (source)
• Newest WikiProjects: WikiProject Decolonise Wiki --> intends to focus on decolonising text, depictions and media within all relevant Wikipedia articles.
• WikiProject Highlights: Ontology Cleaning Task Force: A group of people have started a task force to discuss problems with the Wikidata ontology and how to clean them up. Anyone interested in participating is welcome. The task force maintains Wikidata:WikiProject Ontology/Cleaning Task Force as a record of its activities. You can add yourself to the participants list there and find out how to join group meetings or otherwise participate in the group. (Got something noteworthy happening in your WikiProject? Share it in the upcoming issue!)
• Newest database reports: Lexicographical data/Reports/Empty lexemes - Lexemes with no statements, no forms and no senses. (Do you see Lexemes from your language in the list that you can fix?)
• Showcase Items: January 15, 2018 (Q45919591) - Monday in January 2018
• Showcase Lexemes: در جنگ حلوا بخش نمی‌کنند (L1081423) - Persian with a meaning similar to "all's fair in love and war"

Development

• IP masking: We are working on adjusting Wikibase to handle the upcoming introduction of IP masking, which will give editors who are not logged in a temporary account name instead of using their IP to attribute edits to (phab:T351968)
• Lexicographical data: We are changing how empty Senses and Forms are represented in the dumps (phab:T305660)
• mul language code: We are doing user testing for the current implementation to see if it is understandable for people.
• Mismatch Finder: We are continuing the work on migrating it to the Codex design system.
• REST API:
  • We improved the handling of lower-case statement IDs (phab:T354262)
  • We are working on getting a sitelink for a given wiki (phab:T344039)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

Weekly Tasks

• Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
• Comment on property proposals: all open proposals
• Contribute to the showcase Item and Lexeme above.
• Participate in this week's Lexeme challenge: Pigs
• Summarize your WikiProject's ongoing activities in one or two sentences.
• Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
• Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
• Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Mohammed Abdulai (WMDE) -MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:13, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 00:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

	The Technical Barnstar
	Thank you so much for the CFD Lister script! I don't know what CFD would look like without it. Seawolf35 T--C 16:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Seawolf35, I wrote that ages ago, more for myself than anything else. Glad other people find it useful! — Qwerfjkltalk 16:54, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I used Rater to make a few wikiproject assessments and your bot came by to make edits like this one: [9]. Is it supposed to be doing this? This does not appear to change the behaviour or appearance of the banners. -- asilvering (talk) 03:43, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I missed the earlier question similar to mine above. Is this something that can be avoided by changes to Rater? I don't really want to have a bot following up on every single edit I make with this tool if I can avoid it. -- asilvering (talk) 03:47, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Asilvering, not really, because lots of talk pages will never be edited by Rater. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:03, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm wondering why the bot is removing "|1=" from {{WikiProject banner shell}} when the template documentation still shows to use this. When doing talk page tidying for WikiProjects, AWB keeps wanting to restore it after it's been removed. Has the documentation for the template simply not caught up? Or is the bot malfunctioning by chance? Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 07:24, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

StefenTower, the bot just removes it because it's unnecessary. Whether it's used or not doesn't make much difference. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:19, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Understood, but since the documentation shows it, other programs like AWB are going to put it back. I'm just saying our tools should go by the book so we're all in sync and tidying changes don't get into conflict. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 17:49, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

StefenTower, that's fine, AWB can do what it likes. AWB shouldn't be used to make cosmetic edits anyway. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:50, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

But the bot edit above was doing a cosmetic edit just the same, and against the shell's documentation. Further, tidying of something like that using AWB usually goes along with other banner tidying. At any rate, cosmetic, tidying edits on talk pages are taken differently than on subject pages. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 17:54, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

StefenTower, yes, that's because I'm using the python libray mwparserfromhell which removes 1= where it is unnecessary. It doesn't really matter either way. — Qwerfjkltalk 18:32, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

How to edit and Publish an article --Arunima Sudha (talk) 04:56, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Arunima Sudha, Welcome! Creating a new article from scratch is extremely challenging, and new editors are strongly recommended to spend a few months learning how Wikipedia works, by making improvements to some of our existing six million articles before trying it. When you do decide to have a go at a new article, you are highly encouraged to read WP:Your first article. If you haven't already also check out WP:TUTORIAL; it's a lot of fun! Happy editing! — Qwerfjkltalk 07:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I noticed that this edit placed the banner shell above the lanaguage banner, which contradicts WP:TALKORDER. Language banners # 6, come before the banner shell #8. Flibirigit (talk) 22:18, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Flibirigit, I'll fix that. The bot only actually checks for {{American English}} and {{British English}}. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:06, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Similar to above with this edit, article history (#7) should come before the banner shell (#8). Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 23:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Flibirigit, strange, looks like I never actually added {{Article history}} to my TALKORDER configuration. Fixed now. — Qwerfjkltalk 08:35, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

We already have user:Cewbot doing this substantially pointless and distracting busywork and cluttering up everyone's watchlists. Is it really necessary to have several bots involved, each with their own complaints, discussions, bug reports/fixes, etc.? –jacobolus (t) 04:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Jacobolus, if I thought it was pointless I wouldn't be doing it. But that aside, the reason we have two bots is simply because things worked out that way (I filed my BRFA and then the one for Cewbot came later and with a slightly different scope). I do of course keep track of Kanashimi's talk page. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:44, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

It's not completely pointless, but it is fairly disruptive by creating a massive amount of watchlist noise for a largely trivial benefit. It is going to end up touching essentially every (talk) page on the site, including those which ordinarily get ~1 edit every 6 months, where literally nobody cares they have a Wikiproject X banner by itself or wrapped in an extra frame. Editors watching substantial numbers of pages are going to have their watchlists completely flooded, with along the lines of tens to hundreds of times the ordinary volume of changes, potentially lasting for an extended period of time.

From what I can tell no particular effort has been made to figure out how to minimize this disruption. My recommendation would be to try to piggyback these trivial edits on top of other more substantive edits. That is, wait until some page on the list gets edited by anyone, and then make the banner twiddling changes immediately afterward. This would almost entirely eliminate the disruption, while not materially affecting the banner shell project. –jacobolus (t) 08:28, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Jacobolus, whilst yes, it would be technically feasible to piggyback other edits, it would be practically infeasible. I would have to write the code for that, which wouldn't be trivial, and then I would have to somehow keep track of everypage my bot has edited to avoid re-editing pages, and I would also have to actively update the code to avoid any bugs that crop up.
The watchlist problem is only something you experience if you monitor bot edits, so here's my alternative:
You are worried (understandably) about the bot making errors it its edits. What you could do is hide the bot's edits from your watchlist, and then do a spot check of the bot's edits, as many as you like. Would this be acceptable? — Qwerfjkltalk 08:34, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

How do I exclude just one bot or one bot purpose from the watchlist? Is there a particular "tag" related to this banner shell conversion project? –jacobolus (t) 08:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Jacobolus, not really, it's hard to make a new tag. You could use the PAWS tag, because I'm running my bot on WP:PAWS, but that will catch anyone else who uses PAWS (probably not a large number of edits).
At Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard#Flooding watchlists there is some CSS that will hide my bot's edits. — Qwerfjkltalk 08:46, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Why is it hard to make a new tag? Since this is going to touch nearly every page on the site, wouldn't this be the exact type of situation where jumping through a few extra hoops to help minimize the disruption would be most worthwhile? –jacobolus (t) 08:58, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Jacobolus, this isn't really what tags are used for. I'm also not entirely sure how I apply tags with pywikibot (the bot framework I'm using). — Qwerfjkltalk 09:05, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Nevermind that last point, seems it is straightforward. — Qwerfjkltalk 09:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey Qwerfjkl, I was wondering how much more difficult would it be to add to the talk page bot run a fix to discussions with a missing header (this is a genfix in AWB; full list here). So a page like Talk:168th New York State Legislature which your bot edited would also do the edit I did after. Gonnym (talk) 13:10, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Gonnym, how would I detect if there was a discussion with a missing header? I'm also not sure it would be a good idea to add to the bot's functionality at this point. — Qwerfjkltalk 14:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

AWB does that automatically Gonnym (talk) 15:36, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Gonnym, and AWB's code has been tested over the years. — Qwerfjkltalk 15:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

. I want to publish my article about someone Marvel De brave (talk) 21:43, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Marvel De brave, Welcome! Creating a new article from scratch is extremely challenging, and new editors are strongly recommended to spend a few months learning how Wikipedia works, by making improvements to some of our existing six million articles before trying it. When you do decide to have a go at a new article, you are highly encouraged to read WP:Your first article. If you haven't already also check out WP:TUTORIAL; it's a lot of fun! Happy editing! — Qwerfjkltalk 07:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

thank you for this Marvel De brave (talk) 06:29, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Where did the discussion determining the need for a merge of those WikiProject talk page templates take place? I would like to propose a moratorium there if appropriate so no other proposal flooding watchlists is approved for a while after this one ends. Regards, Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 17:53, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Super Dromaeosaurus, it's linked at WP:PIQA. — Qwerfjkltalk 18:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 21:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Task 26 is causing several FA-class article to be treated as a Milhist A-class project-independent quality assessment. Thirteen examples here. Discussion. Schierbecker (talk) 19:06, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Schierbecker, thank you for bringing my attention to this. I've fixed it now. There was a flaw in my logic for detecting opted-out wikiprojects. I will revert and rerun the bot on the milhist pages with issues. — Qwerfjkltalk 19:36, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

tysm! Schierbecker (talk) 19:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

There is another flaw with Task 26: MilHist redirects were being stripped of their class (example). Without this they wind up in Category:Unassessed military history articles, one of the maintenance categories that the MilHistBot deals with. We then get another bot edit to correct it. (example) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:54, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Hawkeye7, while this is another flaw, it's covered by the same fix, because my bot won't modify the classes on opted-out wikiprojects, regardless of what value class= (unless, I think, it's blank and the page is a talk page of a redirect/dab, in which case it will remove class=). — Qwerfjkltalk 19:57, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Do we still add Template:WikiProject banner shell when MilHist is the only project on the page? I have no objection, just asking. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:10, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Hawkeye7, yes. — Qwerfjkltalk 20:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Hawkeye, suggest you add automatic redirect detection to your quality mask — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:33, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Bot didn't remove |class=C from the WikiProject Military history template [10]. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 21:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Super Dromaeosaurus, it's not supposed to, WPMILHIST opted out of PIQA. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:06, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

So... all of this is for the merge to be actually only partial? Alright.

This morning I saw this other edit [11]. Frankly it's starting to get annoying. It is clear this is because the two WikiProject templates had different class ratings. But this happened because MilHistBot changed the rating from stub to start [12]. Why don't you WikiProject talk page template people make sure to synchronise things to avoid situations like these to happen before putting forward such a massive thing? Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 10:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Super Dromaeosaurus, WPMILHIST is one WikiProject. I ha e no say over how they decide to rate their articles. All I can see is that there was a conflicting class and so my bot decided not to choose either rating. — Qwerfjkltalk 15:01, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

@Super Dromaeosaurus if you want to help us resolve these conflicts, you can look at Category:Articles with conflicting quality ratings — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

I see an inline citation within a website that links to the wrong page of the website. When I try to change just that one citation, it replaces every citation coming from that website with the new one. How do I limit the change to just a single reference? --EO1912 (talk) 13:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Page: State_Archives_of_Milan

Diff: Special:Diff/1196944489

Comment/question: I'd be happy to fix the "bare url" error but I can't find it. Thanks. Andy02124 (talk) 16:46, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I think this referred to the url in the DBI template, which was based on incorrect template documentation. It (the article) was corrected in a subsequent edit. Andy02124 (talk) 16:55, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

which is where they can find and respond to your question. --Herekeeprook (talk) 08:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

hello --Herekeeprook (talk) 08:28, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Herekeeprook, do you have a question? — Qwerfjkltalk 15:09, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 01:02, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello! Thank you :) --Kinfolx1114 (talk) 04:28, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

How to create a citation? --Soa340058 (talk) 09:01, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

You might like to read Help:Referencing for beginners or, for a more advanced guide, Wikipedia:Citing sources — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:06, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi. I'm a bit curious if Qwerfjkl (bot) follows maxlag, since the editing delays have been quite lately. Also see mw:API:Etiquette#The maxlag parameter. Kanashimi (talk) 09:33, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Kanashimi, it does insofar as pywikibot does, no idea how much that is. — Qwerfjkltalk 13:47, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

mw:Manual:Maxlag parameter: Use maxlag=5 (5 seconds). This is an appropriate non-aggressive value, set as default value on Pywikibot.— Qwerfjkltalk 13:57, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

It looks less crowded now. Kanashimi (talk) 02:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi there! Cewbot is also removing some invalid parameters when making the PIQA edits, per User:Cewbot/log/20200122/configuration. Is that something your bot could do as well? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 22:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

GoingBatty, probably yes, but my bot wasn't approved to do that. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:10, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, the introduction of inappropriate pages, such as Draft:Aruba Sucks, is considered vandalism and is prohibited. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism may result in the loss of editing privileges. Under section G3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, the page has been nominated for deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Joyous! Noise! 14:24, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Huh. — Qwerfjkltalk 15:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, How do i add a description to Vinayak Pai.jpg image? Vinayak Pai is currently the Managing director and CEO of Tata Projects Limited, a leading sustainable technology-led engineering, procurement, construction (EPC) company in India. --Prathm.Shinde09 (talk) 04:29, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Prathm.Shinde09, there are instructions on your talk page on how to add a description. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:15, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

I clicked on edit but no option is showing to add description to the image Prathm.Shinde09 (talk) 07:24, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Prathm.Shinde09, you should go to Special:Edit/File:Vinayak Pai.jpg and add the appropriate attribution template. I'm not very familiar in this are, so if you need further help, I suggest you either read the links from the message on your talk page, or ask at WP:TEAHOUSE. — Qwerfjkltalk 15:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello! After a short break I'm back on Wikipedia. (Suffered some days from the flu.) Just wanted to let you know that I'm still working on localizing strings for your bot in my community (have around 20 left) and I will report back when I'm finished. Hope you have a good time! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Klein Muçi, good to hear you're well. — Qwerfjkltalk 14:55, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Page: Sadhvi_Rithambara

Diff: Special:Diff/1198571544

Comment/question:

Ekabhishek^talk 20:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Ekabhishek, you added

<ref>{{cite web|title= |url=https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/others/haryana-cm-releases-book-on-sadhvi-s-role-in-ayodhya-movement-101704032777625.html|date= |website= Hindustan Times}}</ref>

which has a blank |title= — Qwerfjkltalk 21:10, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

No such bare url found in the article, might be a mistake Ekabhishek^talk 20:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, it's me again. This doesn't change the output and would be regarded as a cosmetic edit. I don't know if the bot is still performing this task (I have been away for a few days), but please avoid these edits in the future. Thanks. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:58, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, I am well aware the bot makes cosmetic edits. There is no easy way to avoid them. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:11, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Qwerfjkl don't the categories created at Template_talk:WikiProject_banner_shell#Tracking_categories_for_articles_that_require_performing_WP:PIQA aid with this? -Kj cheetham (talk) 15:30, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for all the good work this bot is doing. All the cosmetic edits I've spotted consist of removing an unnecessary but harmless "1=" from a parameter. Would it be worth wrapping the save code in an if block for this specific case? Certes (talk) 20:14, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Certes, it's not quite as simple as that. I'm using the python library mwparserfromhell to parse the pages, and it strips the 1= by default if it's unnecessary. I'll have to look in to how to disable that. — Qwerfjkltalk 22:14, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Is it possible to stop the bot from running on pages with just one WikiProject banner, where it adds an unnecessary banner shell? InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Especially on redirect and disambiguation talk pages. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:26, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, that's intentional. — Qwerfjkltalk 10:22, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Is there a reason for that? I noticed that Cewbot was doing the same thing as well. Virtually all disambiguation talk pages do not wrap {{WikiProject Disambiguation}} in {{WikiProject banner shell}} (that's around 319,444 pages); are all of those pages going to be adjusted? Same thing for redirect, file, and category talk pages. If there is no meaningful reason for this change, I think that would just create more disruption on users' watchlists. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:04, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, that's the whole point of PIQA - that WPBS is added to all pages. I'm only running the bot on talk pages (i.e. namespace 1), so file and category talk pages will be unaffected, — Qwerfjkltalk 20:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I may have missed something after the initial two RfCs, but I thought the whole point was to unify |class= parameters into {{WikiProject banner shell}}. Nothing needs to be unified when there is only one WikiProject tag. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:22, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Martin? — Qwerfjkltalk 07:13, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Technically you are correct and I do see your point. If you think this aspect needs further discussion we can pause the processing on the single-banner pages. My view is that the logical conclusion of PIQA is that all ratings will eventually be in the banner shell and none in the separate banners. At this point, any rating placed in a banner will be redundant (if it is the same as the shell rating) or conflicting (if it is different). Neither of these are ideal, so I envisage that the class parameter will be deactivated completely from individual banner templates and the only way to assess quality will be via the banner shell. That is certainly the direction we are moving, but happy to discuss further.

Also, please note that it is possible for a shell to have zero banners inside it, e.g. Talk:Batil (ship) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

With all the work done to the shell, I see it as a net positive. And I'm one of those that has a lot of redirect pages on my watchlist and I'm fine with the "spam". Gonnym (talk) 17:22, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

I have 17,000 pages on my watchlist myself. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:25, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

What is the net positive? Does it affect categories or anything like that? If not, and the only change is the appearance of the banner, then that would be the definition of a cosmetic edit. I envisage that the class parameter will be deactivated completely from individual banner templates and the only way to assess quality will be via the banner shell Redirects and DAB pages are automatically detected as redirects or DAB pages. Oftentimes, there is no |class=redirect or |class=NA tag attached to the WikiProject banner(s). InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:22, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, no, if there was no visible change then it would be a cosmetic edit. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:05, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, that's the technical, wikilawyerable definition of "cosmetic edit", but as WP:COSMETIC notes, the term cosmetic edit is often used to encompass all edits of such little value that the community deems them to not be worth making in bulk, even though those edits might change the output HTML or readable text in subtle ways. If there's no benefit to changing these other than aesthetic purposes, then the bot is operating without consensus because this is not what the community !voted to do (it was to unify project-dependent quality assessments and redesign the banner shell template, nothing more). InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:10, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

That is a rather confusing sentence on the page, because the definition of a cosmetic edit is one which changes the wikicode but does not change the output. I agree that the truly cosmetic edits should be avoided by the bot if at all possible. To address the substance of your complaint, is it only the single-banner non-mainspace edits that you have a problem with? If so, I suggest leaving those pages for now and we can perhaps discuss it later (at a more suitable venue). I agree they are not urgent and do not address the core purpose of PIQA. If you are agreeable to this approach, I will ask the other bot operator to follow suit — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:47, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I did not research how that sentence got into that dictionary page, but it was an invalid interpretation of WP:COSMETICBOT, which is policy. I have copy-edited that whole section to match the policy, which has been hashed out in great detail over the years and which has been pretty stable for a while, IIRC. If proposed bot edits have such little value that the community deems them to not be worth making in bulk, then the relevant BRFA will, or should, not be approved. That's part of what BRFA is for. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:15, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, I've updated the code to only run on mainspace talk pages, does that help? — Qwerfjkltalk 16:47, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kanashimi, you might be interested in this as well. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:51, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I've added the PIQA_namespace option to handle this. Kanashimi (talk) 22:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl did you disable the bot in non-mainspace talk pages or just disable it for single banners? Gonnym (talk) 17:30, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Gonnym, the former. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:33, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I thought you said several comments above that you were already only running the bot on talk pages (i.e. namespace 1)? InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:53, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, I was when I said that. I switched to using the category which had non-namespace pages (which is why I assumed they were fine to run on). — Qwerfjkltalk 18:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Is it only the single-banner non-mainspace edits that you have a problem with? Redirects and disambiguation pages are technically in the mainspace. But yes, if there is only one banner, and there is no |class= (because it is automatically detected), then it is unnecessary to add a banner shell. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:53, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, I've updated the code to skip non-article talk pages (i.e. dab and redirect talk pages), regardless of what content they have. This change will take affect next run. — Qwerfjkltalk 18:23, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. The next step, if you and/or the other bot operators believe it is beneficial to use WPBS on single banners on non-article talk pages, would be to gain consensus at a centralized location (probably not here). InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I'll leave that for @Martin to take care of as they wish. — Qwerfjkltalk 18:30, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the previous wording of WP:COSMETIC (now removed), it appears it has been on the page since its creation in 2017. Pinging @Headbomb for comment. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:53, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree with your interpretation of WP:COSMETIC, FWIW. — Qwerfjkltalk 18:56, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

What exactly is the issue here? An explicit |1= does nothing on WPBS. It can be removed by bot, but only as part of a larger substantive edit. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:43, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Headbomb, that's not what we're discussing here. Rather we're talking about moving WP banners into WPBS. — Qwerfjkltalk 20:57, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

WP:COSMETIC originally stated: The term cosmetic edit is often used to encompass all edits of such little value that the community deems them to not be worth making in bulk, even though those edits might change the output HTML or readable text in subtle ways. This was contested by two editors (MSGJ and Jonesey95), and the challenged wording has been removed. That text was authored by you back in 2017, which is why I pinged you for comment. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Really not sure how that's contentious. It's documenting how the term is used, because it is often used that way, even if this it not the way BOTPOL defines it. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 04:49, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

InfiniteNexus, by the way, would you be fine with the both working on non-mainspace talk pages that have multiple wikiproject banners? — Qwerfjkltalk 18:23, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

If they don't have or need |class=, that is also unnecessary and has nothing to do with PIQA, but I wouldn't necessary object to it. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)