Talk:Intermittent river

What I was looking for and got disappointed is "Seasonal stream/river/watercourse", with wadis in mind, but there are several other regional types as well (arroyo, winterbourne, etc.). There are two attempts at dealing with the topic, "Stream#Intermittent or seasonal stream" and "Intermittent river". I've created redirects to the latter for all possible terms, and cross-reference ("see also") between the two. The problem is,

• there is no one useful article on the topic. Between 30% and 50% of the world's watercourses are not perennial, and we still deal with the topic in a "by the way" manner.
• The "Stream" page is undersourced and needs a lot of work altogether. Still, the "Stream#Intermittent or seasonal stream" paragraph has more info in several regards than the dedicated "Intermittent river" article.
• There is confusion between US definitions, which are specific for that one country, but readily available online and therefore too heavily represented, and terms & reality elsewhere in the world.
• Maybe connected to the above, the strict distinction between "ephemeral" and "intermittent" streams. Additional to that difficult distinction, I dare say that "intermittence" can also have a spatial meaning (in karst areas, where streams disappear in dolines and reemerge at karst springs), so not just temporal.
  

Anyone interested? Thanks, Arminden (talk) 11:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Arminden,

I noticed the same problem! I was reading about riverbeds in central Australia when I realized that this site has no consistent terminology for these water bodies. This is a serious oversight that needs to be thoroughly addressed.

I'm no expert on rivers, but I suggest that we try and consolidate scientific information about this topic into "Intermittent river," at least for now. The topic as a whole clearly meets general notability guidelines, and "Arroyo (creek)" is also listed as a level-5 vital article. Regional names should keep their own articles so long as they don't merit being merged themselves, if so perhaps into a "Terminology" section.

The American "ephemeral"–"intermittent" distinction must also be addressed, but that's a separate issue from the more colorful regionalisms. "Ephemeral river" is currently no more than a redirect, but based on a cursory search of Google Scholar and JSTOR, the term seems to have significant usage in relation to Namibian and Australian bodies, with smaller usage for bodies in Europe and the Americas. The page "Ephemerality" also has many cited statements about ephemeral streams, and seems to be where many older wikilinks lead. I'll read more thoroughly to check whether there's overlap between terms.

Since merging is on the table, and also to draw more attention to this issue, I'll add merge disclaimer templates to relevant articles. I would like to see this discussion come to life, and I hope that by finding a solution to this issue, we can encourage constructive edits about these bodies of water, and eliminate duplicate, contradictory, and irrelevant information about them. Marisauna (talk) 07:01, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Upon reflection I'm all for intermittent–seasonal–ephemeral river being a standalone article but I propose using the {{excerpt}} function to import the lede sections of Arroyo, Wadi, Winterbourne et al because I think that all of those terms have very specific cultural and Regional connotations that both deserve standalone consideration and should be mentioned to some extent in a larger article on the hydrologic concept or however we present that. And then Arroyo, Wadi and Winterbourne should all point back to {{main|Intermittent river}} but then can go on talking about their regional cases in El Paso or the Dead Sea or Berkshire or whatever. But the local terms needs to keep existing IMHO alongside other local regional terms like Aguaje (watering hole) and Cienega (vernal pool swamp thing) that are locally/culturally significant regional landforms and natural historical landmarks. jengod (talk) 00:12, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't see a discussion here about this so thought I would start one (though it may be the same merge set as the one above?) I don't think a merge here is necessary - there could be some content sharing and overlap, but a Wadi is a specific term and is probably more akin to a canyon in many cases than just an intermittent river. There was a past merge discussion on the Wadi talk page which I think still applies here. Turnagra (talk) 19:27, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Marisauna I'll be removing the three merge templates you have placed on the intermittent stream-related articles next week. There seems to be no rationale provided for these proposed merges anywhere and they've been there a couple months now. Wikipedia has no deadlines but there's not really a point to starting a merge discussion if there's no-one to discuss it with. You're free to put them back afterwards but if you do please provide an explanation for why you think they should be merged below. ^_^ --Licks-rocks (talk) 20:35, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge templates are still showing?

The discussion on the Wadi page was, as far as I could see, a general oppose to merging. I would add my voice to the opposition on similar grounds: that is, these things are region specific and not interchangable.

As a reader, I would comment that shorter articles on more specific things are generally easier to navigate (within reason), and that universal articles on physical geography or biome are liable to focus subtly on North America (see, for instance, "Old Growth Forest"). It is easier to see what applies to which region - and presumably, to add information to the right place - where articles are kept separate. FloweringOctopus (talk) 11:33, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]