Talk:Gregory Alchevsky/GA1

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Reviewer: Schminnte (talk · contribs) 13:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this one, always happy to review a classical article. I should have the review completed in a couple of days. Please respond to comments by indenting below and initialing. Looking forward to working with you! All the best, Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 13:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'm done with my review and will be putting this on hold. I'm concerned by the close paraphrasing detected: could you go back through the Ukrainian sources as well and make sure that there isn't much close paraphrasing present? The problems with close paraphrasing and verifiability should be addressed first in this review. Thanks, Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 23:09, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've amended the paraphrasing where it was a bit close to the original, and sorted the citation needed tag. I'll now start on the issues and do a second check on the paraphrasing later, as a second editor has already started to look at your comments. AM

Comments

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   §Lede

   Could an efn be used to store the rather long alternative naming information? - S - Y Done.AM

   When the above is done, the first sentence should be part of the second paragraph in my opinion - S - Y Done.AM

   Russian and Ukrainian composer sounds a bit odd. Maybe just Ukrainian since the next sentence clarifies that he was born during the Russian Empire - S

    Done -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   Ukraine is overlinking - S - Y Done.AM

   Faculty of Physics and Mathematics of Kharkiv University in 1887, and went on: don't think comma is needed here - S

    Done -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   Why do we use Khrystyna Zhuravlyova in lede and Khrystyna Alchevska in biography? - S - Y Link sorted. AM

    Comment: @Schminnte: I'll let the prime editor resolve this one. -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   Wikilink Romantic movement - S

    Done

   A late Romantic movement composer, Alchevsky wrote a symphonic poem, Alyosha Popovych, but his most popular works were romances and arrangements of folk songs, which perpetuated the use of Ukrainian folk music into the 20th century.: quite a long sentence, can a split be made? - S

    Fixed -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   §Biography

   where he studied counterpoint and composition with Sergei Taneyev, and instrumentation: another unnecessary comma - S

    Done -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   Hyphenate first-floor - S

    Done -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   §Compositions

   The symphonic poem Alyosha Popovych was first performed in 1904 in Kharkiv, when it was conducted by Ilya Slatin: not seeing a need for the comma - S

    Fixed

   When Alchevsky showed Rachmaninoff the sketches of first movement of his symphony: of the first movement? - S

    Done -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   asked of it: "asked about it" feels less awkward here - S

    Done -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

   I'm seeing a mixture of smart and straight apostrophes/quote marks. Please make all apostrophes and quote marks their straight equivalent (' and ") - S

    Partly done Let me know if any are omitted, that's the only reason I marked it partially, if not, then it should be resolved -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC) - Y Looks sorted. AM[reply]

   §Publications

   Vocal technique in Daily Exercises: is technique meant to be uncapitalised? - S

   Alchevsky's methodological teaching aids Vocal technique in Daily Exercises (1907, Moscow), and Breathing: is the comma needed? - S

    Partly done Not sure which comma should be removed, I removed only 2nd -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC) - Y Looks done. AM[reply]

   §Commemoration

   The 2015 HUP International Festival S. Rachmaninov and Ukrainian Culture is this the full name of the festival? If the second part is the name of that year's festival, it should be in commas or the like - S

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   There is an outstanding citation needed tag in §Compositions - S - Y Sorted (text removed as nothing found after a long search). AM

   Further reading should be removed by the same logic of the comments in section below - S - Y Done. AM

   Caveat of not being familiar with Ukrainian sources, but reliability seems fine - S

   Earwig's shows low copyvio - S

   Spotchecks:

   Ref 1 (Encyclopedia of Ukraine 1984):

   a: verification pass - S

   b: verification pass, rest of information is SKYISBLUE - S

   c: verification pass - S

   Ref 11 (Schonberg 1988): verification fail, I can't see anything to do with Gregory, as the passage is to do with Ivan - S - Y Done (text removed). AM

   Ref 14 (Kizchenko 2016): verification pass - S

   Ref 17 (Schonberg 1988): verification fail as above, seems to be talking about Ivan. Additionally there is way too close paraphrasing here, see below - S - Y Sorted. Interestingly the anecdote is correct. Schonberg has however confused the brothers (Ivan was an opera singer and never tried to compose a symphony). This source can be replaced with another (Nikolaeva & Scriabin, p144). AM

   On one occasion Goldenweiser and Alchevsky visited Rachmaninoff, who was interested in knowing what they were composing: source "On another occasion Goldenweiser and [... Ivan] Alchevsky visited Rachmaninoff [who] was interested in knowing what we were composing" - S - Y Sorted. AM

   who played it through and praised it is just lifted from this text - S - Y Sorted. AM

   He then sat at the piano and played an exposition from memory: source "He sat down at the piano and played from memory [...] the exposition. This is just switched around. - Y Sorted. AM

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Covers all major aspects of early life, education, career, works, and recognition - S

   I think there needs to be some judicious trimming in §Family. There seems to be quite a lot of excess information: for example, why do we need to know about Aleksey Alchevsky's birth, suicide and monument, Khrystyna Alchevska's awards, and the professions of all the Alchevsky children? Even the information on Ivan, which is kind of relevant, is much too detailed for an article his brother - S - Y Done. AM

   I'm still seeing some unnecessary parts in my view. The extended information about Gregory's parents beyond profession can presumably be easily found in their articles - S - Y Done. Probably more has been cut that I feel comfortable with, as imo many readers would find the information now removed about his parents informative (see Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky for an example of an article that provides quite a lot of information about parents etc.) AM

   Above point stretches into lede: including younger brother Ivan Alchevsky [uk], who became an internationally famous opera singer is unnecessary to me - S

    Removed -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Satisfied with the neutrality throughout the article - S

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   No edits for almost two months, no edit warring visable - S

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   File:Alchevskii Grigoriy.jpg: correct PD tagging with an appropriate lede caption. I would've liked to see something like "Gregory Alchevsky in 1990", but a lack of metadata makes this impossible - S

   File:Family Alchevsky.jpg: PD tagged. Not seeing a need for the comma in caption. File:Родина Алчевських 1880-ті.jpg seems to be a better preserved image, thoughts on using that instead? - S - Y Done, thanks for spotting the better image. AM

   File:Ivan Alchevsky.jpg: PD tagged. Again, would love to see more of a caption but there's no metadata - S

   File:Moscow Imperial Conservatory in 1894.jpg: PD tagged with good caption - S

   File:Alchensky - Romance Ор. 3 No. 1 (page 1).jpg: PD tagged and good caption - S

7. Overall: Nicely written article, but there are some significant problems with sourcing and scope to address. Is still mild enough to fix here though - S

   Pass/Fail:

• @Schminnte and @Amitchell125 I'm just a good Samaritan going around randomly and helping out articles and have done so. Feel free to ping me back if the OP would like further assistance or if the reviewer would like to respond to my comments. I did some basic things and will leave the more technical stuff to the OP. Feel free to build upon my edits as needed. -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments now addressed

Thanks for your review comments, Schminnte. These are now (hopefully) all sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:52, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Amitchell125: just a follow-up on scope before I feel prepared to pass this. I've struck everything I'm happy with. Additionally, there seems to be a citation error to fix now. Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 18:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Error sorted. AM

@Amitchell125: one last comment above. I'm still seeing some unnecessary parts in my view. The extended information about Gregory's parents beyond profession can presumably be easily found in their articles. Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 20:31, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for cutting that: I get your point about Tchaikovsky, but his article is eight times bigger so more space can be spared for family details without it being undue. Regardless, I'm happy with the overall state of the article now and will pass it. Congratulations! All the best, Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 21:31, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]