Talk:Australian cuisine/Archive 1

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Archive 1

this site has helped me lots thank you very much — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.58.93.58 (talk) 08:30, 27 August 2005 (UTC) ‎

Tim Tams are quite readily available in many places now, not just in Australia. I've seen them in basic supermarkets in Hong Kong, England and Japan in the last few weeks. Arnott's have expanded their empire - I've added a few words to reflect this. Natgoo 08:40, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Rather, Arnotts has been incorporated into another (evil?) empire.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 08:42, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

They may be available elsewhere but that doesn't make them any less Australian cuisine, when i eat Chinese or Thai food i don't think 'hey they should rename this spicy global food because i'm not in either of those countries'. it originated in Australia so is Australian. i see your point but the article isn't listing things only available in Australia.Nickmista (talk) 09:07, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Australian restaurants....

we have many restaurants like chinese, thai, etc as well as fast food outlets of: mcdonalds, hungry jacks (which you call burger king), KFC and a variety of pizza places..dominos, pizza haven, pizza hut and marcellinas.

We have little local take away shops that you buy fish and chips (which you call fries,chips are fatter than fries)

Also chicken shops, like red rooster.

We have restaurants that serve smorgasboards of anything and everything,chinese,curries, pizzas, roasts and the like.

Also we can go to the local deli (corner store) and buy pies and pasties and sausage rolls. Most people have tomato sauce (which you call ketchup)

Breakfast in Australia would be cereal (like yours weetbix, cornflakes etc) or toast with jam (jelly), vegemite (black and thick and spread thinly on buttered toast) and of course other things too, but this is only a small portion of course.

We eat schnitzels (chicken, beef, pork) coated in flour, egg and breadcrumbs and lightly fried.

We make damper on camping trips (damper is an aussie camping bread that is made from flour, pinch of salt and enough water to make a stiff dough and then cooked on a camp fire)

I hope in some small way this helps you, if you need any more help or pictures or anything else I will keep a watch on this page and if you need me to contact you, let me know.

I live in Adelaide, which is in South Australia. (bottom end of Australia)

below is a long slab about damper which should be in its own page, except a damper page already exists so it is redundant here. Asa01 06:13, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Damper (Australian Bush Bread)

Australian tradition is the memory of a simple, hand made bread prepared by several generations of pioneers and travelling bush people.

For historical and economic reasons in the 19th century and later, Australia's often isolated in rural population relied heavily on a very small group of staples which were both durable (wouldnt go bad) and easily transportable (easy to carry) - flour, tea, sugar - supplemented by whatever fresh meats were available. (roo, rabbit and the like) While this diet was far from nutritious by modern standards, it was enough to support life in the harsh conditions of the Outback. (country)

With these ingredients being the only ones available, and no reliable access to settlements (houses)and established bakeries,(pastry shops) outback workers and travellers, (many of them cyclists and farmers hearding their cattle and sheep) resorted to their own version of bread, cooked as required on an open fire at the campsite. For this purpose, the traveller simply mixed flour with a rising agent (baking powder) and water, to produce a stiff dough that could be baked on the coals of a wood fire. In time, a variety of flour with the rising ingredient pre-mixed became available, known as "self raising " flour.

The bread made in this way became known as "damper" (perhaps because the fire was "damped" down to a moderate heat for this particular purpose).

This technique remains firmly embedded in the folk memory of modern Australians, and when camping often make a damper or two. Modern explorers though these days in their 4 X 4's can carry as much "shop bread" as they wish, and no longer require the skills of their ancestors.

However, this technique has something to offer cyclists, who - like other non-motorised travellers in the past - need a wholesome staple food that is simple to carry, easy to prepare, and good to eat.

While I do not suggest that this bread is a sufficient food in itself, damper is a very practical idea for cyclists for the following reasons:

no hardware required - except cup or bowl to mix dough in no fuel necessary - uses wood on site simplicity - apart from water and a little salt, only one ingredient ( self rising/raising flour). No yeast or "starter" is necessary. very compact - the ingredient is easy to carry, just add water cheap - much cheaper than bread or crackers (biscuits) economical - make only as much as you want, when you want it fresh - makes breakfast on the spot, & pack another for lunch adaptable - add dried fruit or sugar for a sweet bread. Add fibre, cheese & herbs as you wish. quality - much higher than factory bread quick - fire takes 15 mins to make coals, then bread cooks in 5 - 10 mins accessibility - self raising flour is readily available from general stores , even in remote areas

---

Damper recipe :

Original ingedients:

cup of self raising flour pinch of salt half cup water

Modern day ingredients:

a cup of self raising flour, preferably wholemeal ; pinch of salt optional : a teaspoon of linseed or oatbran - for extra fibre. A little semolina makes for a nice crust, too. half cup of water ( note that the proportion is roughly 2:1 or less).The dough should be stiff.

Method : (method is all the same!)

build a small fire in a narrow trench

mix dry ingredients, add water gradually. kneed into a stiff dough rake glowing coals to one end of the trench, away from flames, allow them to die down a little ( Note that this technique is good for general cooking as well , as it makes a gentle simmer very easy) form dough into a slab (about as big as the palm of your hand) , & place carefully on the hot coals. turn with fork or fingers after about 3-5 minutes. Brush off any sticking coals ! turn again as necessary. Should be ready to eat in about 5 minutes. When it's done, it should have a browned crust, and sound hollow if you tap with your fingers.

Alternatively, make a larger quantity, place under the coals for approx 30 mins.

With more practice, you may be able to leave a larger quantity in the ashes overnight - the ashes will remain warm all night, and your loaf should be ready by morning.

Note : if self raising flour is not available, 2 tsp of baking powder to 1C plain flour (all purpose flour) should produce the same result.

This article is somewhat pretentiously labelled as "Australian Cuisine", whereas what is really required is "Australian Foods", of which Australian Cuisine is only a minor subset. Or do we really two differently named articles.--Richardb43 09:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I would except "Australian Foods" to describe only thing like kangaroo meat, macadamia nuts, whitchetti grubs, but not go into imported foods or preparation styles no matter how popular they have become in Aust. This article describes food preparation, popular menu items and food styles, something I would expect to come under the title "cuisine". So I think it should be "cuisine" not "foods". Asa01 07:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

"Australian Foods" is inconsistent with other articles.--cj | talk 08:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Cultural cringe, my dear? It doesn't seem any more pretentious to me than admitting Australia has culture that isn't in yoghurt pots. 202.139.21.178 (talk) 12:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

As stated its not just australian foods but also what other things australians eat and how they eat it, also every other countries articles are titled the same, changing it would be incorrect and confusing, it should stay as is.Nickmista (talk) 09:12, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

As this page stands, it has no references to damper at all. I would have boldly added it, but I could not figure out where would be best. Ricky 02:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Well spotted. I just shoved it in. Not too much work as Damper already has an article. Asa01 08:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the damper section.. damper was never dough wrapped around a stick held over a fire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.124.141 (talk) 11:45, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Whatever the historical basis, a lot of Australians today do refer to dough wrapped around a stick and cooked by holding over a fire as "damper". —DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 15:29, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

Should we put some reference to foods such as Peach Melba and Melba toast which are named after Australians? There is currently no way to find those foods as a group... or should it be a page or category of its own? I am not sure if there are enough for a separate list. Thoughts? Ricky 02:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Other people played significant roles in the early development of the Australian cuisine movement besides Vic Cherikoff. Undoubtdly Cherikoff played a major role as a product and information distributor. Key chefs included Jean-paul Bruneteau (authored 'Tukka'), Jennice & Raymond Kersh, and Andrew Feljke of the Red Ochre Grill. Also regional players like Peter Hardwick intially identified and supplied subtropical species. Cherikoff played a prominent role in linking-up the work of the regional players with the market place, but there was a proto-native foods industry developing in regional Australia in the early 1980s, prior to Cherikoff's involvement. Have decided to rationalize the native cuisine comment to a brief acknowledgement of Australian themed restaurants. Refer to article titled bushfood industry history for more detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Moss (talk • contribs)

This has been added: Other popular lunches include meat pies, pasties, sausage rolls and chips. but I question just how many people have this for lunch? They may be common in the schoolyard where there's a nearby takeaway shop, but how common outside those areas? Format 19:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I could confirm this upon first hand experiance, living in Australia myself. But unless someone delves deep into research to find a suitable certafiable source, i suggest just leave as is Hellfreeze 12:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The pies, pasties and sausage rolls are very common, especially in places like building sites where mobile tuck shops provide for laborers and other blue collar workers. NTRabbit (talk) 06:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

depends where someone lives and what there into but it is common food amongst most australians to have the above mentioned foods for lunch especially when there on limited time. they are commonly available and eaten, but again depends on the person their location and their preferencesNickmista (talk) 09:15, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Agree that it is common. Just because the CEO doesn't scoff that down every day (though they might well occasionally, such as on the weekend), if lots of schoolchildren and other workers do go for it, then its common. —DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 15:27, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

Why has somebody put in a huge section for South Australia, obviously regurgitating something they have cut and pasted from some S.A. government website? So are we going to have a similar section cut and pasted from each state and territory? If it's still here in 2 week's time I'm going to remove it. Totally ridiculous --MichaelGG 11:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it should be deleted. --58.107.196.244 13:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and deleted the regional variants section on the basis that it consisted entirely of information about South Australia, not all of which was relevant to the article. If anyone wants the resurrect some of the relevant info from this section, along with any information about regional variations from other states/regions, go ahead

--UnnamedGent 03:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Is pease pudding available/popular in Australia? If so, it should be added to the Pease pudding article. Badagnani (talk) 04:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

It is not popular in Aust. Format (talk) 22:56, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree, never heard of itNickmista (talk) 09:17, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Agree: it is pretty much only (slightly) known from the rhyme. —DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 15:25, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

Do we really not have green olives in Australia? They are rare in sandwiches or on pizza, but can be readily found in restaurant meals, and in every supermarket I've ever been in . I've taken it out of the sentence "Australians do not have pickled hot banana peppers or green olives." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.184.71 (talk) 05:32, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Hilarious! There are dozens of varieties of olives available at your general Australian supermarket; and green ones are probably the most common! Format (talk) 07:35, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Also Australians do not routinely put beetroot, pineapple, and carrots on most sandwiches!! These items would be uncommon, although possible in an elaborate salad sandwich I guess. Format (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

We don't?? Order a salad sandwich at your local sandwich shop and see what happens! :) Although, point taken, we are found of those ingredients but they aren't necessarily included by default. --Belfry (talk) 15:24, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Beetroot and grated carrot are common (and tasty!) in a salad sandwich, as mentioned, although not in the majority of other sandwiches, and pineapple to me is highly unusual in any sandwich. —DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 15:24, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

I have contributed to the New Zealand cuisine article, and I believe much of the changes in the NZ culinary scene over the past 18 years have been the result of similar forces of cultural changes that affected Australia (Asian immigrations, more overseas travels), or trickle-down effects from the evolving Australian cuisine. Does anyone know a full list of things that NZ food scane being copied from Australia - I can count expresso-style coffee, antipasto, pad thai and any others? --JNZ (talk) 11:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

As rediculous a claim this may sound, my Grandfather was responsible for the Dagwood Dog. The key difference between it and a Corndog is that it is dipped in batter and then sauce as opposed to being dipped in corn batter and then squirted in sauce. It was simply a way of increasing sausage sales for the South Australian meat distributor Metro Meats. My Grandfather had seen the success of Corndogs in America and then decided to title the product accordingly. American themed items were quite popular at the time anyway. To put a name to all this, Charlie Smith Watson. If anyone remembers him, or anything about the Dagwood Dog, please give it a mention here so we may discuss as to whether it is worth adding to the list of Australian cuisine. Thankyou. 114.30.101.175 (talk) 15:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC)Erick.

I have removed the following. "Meat that is native to Australia and that features in Australian cuisine include: Kangaroo, Chicken, Geese, Peasant, Crocodile, Duck, Snake, not all of these are eaten on a regular basis. European bovinae and swine: Beef, Pork, Steak, and Mutton. European game and peasant animals such as Deer, Swan, Pigeon, Rabbit, though these are less common."

From the list, only kangaroo, swan, and crocodile are native to Australia. All the others are imported. Not sure if croc can be eaten but kangaroo can. Swans and snakes are protected. Most (if not all) native wildlife is protected in Australia and can only be killed under special circumstances.--Dmol (talk) 08:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

fair enough most of them aren't readily available. Kangaroo and crocodile are both eaten on occasion and some snakes can be although i've never heard of swan being eaten. but certainly those 3 meats don't need an entire section and can be added elsewhere Nickmista (talk) 09:21, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Probably the article should have used a word like "farmed" or "endemic" instead of "native".

And I'm trying to reduce the amount of "peasant" I eat! —DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 15:21, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

Modern Australian cuisine contains a very exciting mix and collection of foods brought to Australia by immigrants from around the world. As someone who has travelled the globe, the amount of fresh, high quality regional and fusion food found in Australia (especially cities such as Melbourne and Sydney) to be staggering. Whilst the article somewhat refers to this, it is still underplayed and does not reflect the true diversity of Australian cuisine.

The Dim Sim is an Australian food that was created by Chinese born William Wing Young. It was developed in Australia for an Australian market and is a true Australian icon (even though many Australians may incorrectly identify it as being Chinese). It is worthy of a mention in the article.

Many Asian and Asian-style dishes and cooking techniques have entered the Australian home, and these are reflected in Australian cookbooks. (Especially Thai, Chinese, Cantonese, Singaporean.)

It would be appropriate that the article reflect this to a larger extent. Belfry (talk) 21:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Does Frangipani pie deserve a mention? Seems to not use that plant in recipe (except perhaps as garnish?) however, the name would relate to the resemblance.SignedJohnsonL623 (talk) 09:52, 1 April 2013 (UTC)There seems to be a definite connection ,etymologically at least, to Frangipane.SignedJohnsonL623 (talk) 10:51, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh Lord, where do I start? Dim sim even though a Chinese word can hardly be said to be Chinese. I can't exactly taste how it is "Chinese", nor have I really ever seen it in China. It's awful. It's what we Asians would call "some Aussie rip off of some authentic Chinese thing". It's not even right for the Chinese taste buds. It's more like something a white Aussie would think tastes Chinese-ish, but it's not, at all. As someone's pointed out, it was created by an Aussie Chinese dude. 129.180.160.123 (talk) 12:16, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

If you look on the Dim sim page and it's etymology, you'll actually find in the ANU article that they think that the etymology of the word is a rip-off of the Cantonese word Dim sum which sounds about right... Dim sum in Canto means bite sized foods that you can buy in small plates, for some reason some white people seem to think this is what "yum cha" is... It really is not, because that Canto word means "drink tea"... But anyway, I think they thought Dim sim is like Dim sum, so they named it that... It is totally non Chinese though, this Dim sim business... 129.180.160.123 (talk) 12:20, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Of course you would never find dim sims in China — because they're not Chinese, they're Australian. Whereas dim sum is Chinese. Dim sims don't need to taste like something else, because they taste exactly like dim sims :-) Similarly: Chiko rolls are Australian, but 'spring rolls' aren't. —DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 15:18, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

Dates given are not sourced and I cannot locate concrete sources.

The reference for the opening line to this section (″Australia has a distinct coffee culture and is often cited as being one of the most developed and vibrant in the world.″) is a list of announcements from a coffee school in Australia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.89.163.171 (talk) 06:51, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Espresso coffee

Current text claims: "Since this time espresso based coffees have remained the most popular form of coffee amongst Australians."
Popular how? Preferred taste? Most cups? Most revenue?
Indeed, the reference cited in the current article states: "Although demand for roast coffee is growing, the at-home coffee category is still dominated by instant coffee, accounting for more than 80% of the total Australian coffee sales."
That's an article from 2010, and since then capsule coffees have made substantial inroads into the at-home (and, to a lesser extent, at-work) market segment.
—DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 14:26, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

I would not say the Halal Snack Pack is an iconic Australian food, I would say it is more of a controversial one. I personally, only heard about them when someone asked Pauline Hanson if she wanted to get one on QandA. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 08:26, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

It seems to be more of a (Western) Sydney thing. But it is definitely an Australian invention/creation. —DIV (120.18.88.32 (talk) 15:14, 11 October 2018 (UTC))

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The following is copied from Talk:Australia. - Meticulo (talk) 22:59, 11 February 2019 (UTC):

Hi,

I would think that, under the Australian Cuisine section, defining a food as an Iconic Australian Food, such as the Pavlova, then linking that to an Article which cannot cite with any certainty whether the food in question was an Australian or New Zealand creation, is a bit misleading for those with no history on the topic in question.

Similarly with the statement 3 sentences later "Australia was responsible for the flat white coffee–purported to have originated in a Sydney cafe in the mid-1980s", which then links to an Article which again cannot cite with any certainty the origin of the creation of the flat white, Australia, or New Zealand.

I suggest a rephrasing of both items, to say that while their origin is contentious, they are enjoyed in Australia, or something similar.

Kiwisheep (talk) 11:38, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, fair point, Kiwisheep. I've amended the 'Iconic foods' section accordingly. See what you think. (As for the flat white, I couldn't find the statement you mentioned, so have made no changes along those lines.) Meticulo (talk) 14:10, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi, I'm a new-ish user so concrit is appreciated but be nice. On to the issue... There's a few sentences at the end of coffee section which I have a problem with. It's a short rave about Australian restaurants apparently running rampant in New York. I don't think it's written objectively, since it states that out food is "healthier". It's got an air of smugness about it, frankly, as does the news.com source it cites. And it has absolutely nothing to do with coffee lol. This article doesn't need a spiel about Australian cuisine outside of Australia, so I'm reluctant to move it to a new section. If no one objects, I'm just gonna delete it in a few days time. Possumling (talk) 04:46, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

You're right. It's over-hyped nonsense, and a misrepresentation of what the rather poor source says anyway. I've deleted it. HiLo48 (talk) 05:01, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

I think most people would agree it is a breakfast food, like avocado on toast, and not a desert or sweet treat like fairy bread. ShortyMcShortFace (talk) 04:49, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Presumably Vegemite was added to that section because it is used on bread, a baked food. I have rephrased the section so that it is clearer about referring to all baked goods, not just desserts. Wcp07 (talk) 08:18, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

I propose merging Modern Australian cuisine into Australian cuisine. I think the content in Modern Australian Cuisine can easily be explained in the context of Australian Cuisine, and a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in Australian Cuisine.

StrongPencil (talk) 22:18, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Support. The articles are related and with this article taking up around 48,000 bytes and Modern Australian cuisine taking up around 4,100 bytes, there will not be any size issues if they are merged. If at some point significantly more information is added about Modern Australian cuisine, a separate article can be recreated but for the time being including it in the broader topic of Australian cuisine seems most appropriate. Wcp07 (talk) 04:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Support There's not a lot of content at Modern Australian cuisine, so it would tuck in nicely, and benefit from the added context on the target page. Joyous! | Talk 23:19, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

•   Y Merger complete. Joyous! Noise! 00:46, 7 March 2023 (UTC)