Talk:2009 Tour de France, Stage 1 to Stage 11

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I think we need to remedy the odd mix of using s.t. and listing out the individual times. Could we get a consensus on this? Both methods are even used on the same table in stage 8:

	Rider	Team	Time
1	Luis León Sánchez (ESP)	Caisse d'Epargne	4h 31' 50"
2	Sandy Casar (FRA)	Française des Jeux	s.t.
3	Mikel Astarloza (ESP)	Euskaltel–Euskadi	s.t.
4	Vladimir Efimkin (RUS)	Ag2r–La Mondiale	+ 3"
5	José Joaquín Rojas (ESP)	Caisse d'Epargne	+ 1' 54"
6	Christophe Riblon (FRA)	Ag2r–La Mondiale	+ 1' 54"
7	Peter Velits (SVK)	Team Milram	+ 1' 54"
8	Sébastien Minard (FRA)	Cofidis	+ 1' 54"
9	Jérémy Roy (FRA)	Française des Jeux	+ 1' 54"
10	Thomas Voeckler (FRA)	Bbox Bouygues Telecom	+ 1' 54"

Malo0178 (talk) 19:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this needs "remedying" at all. It reflects typical usage in results given by cycling websites. Bunch arrivals with the stage winner are given the same time as the winner, but that notation is not used beyond the stage winner (other bunch arrivals all list the actual time). If the textual stage summary above the tables doesn't mention that Casar and Astarloza finished with Sanchez, thus explaining the notation, that's the problem. We do need to explain things fully, yes, but not the same thing repeatedly on the same page. Nosleep ^{break my slumber} 22:51, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could this article either provide an explanation of what "s.t." means or give a link if it is explained elsewhere. I didn't understand it. Manning (talk) 01:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I am guessing it means "same time" based on what I read at Tour_de_France#Mass-start_stages. This article forces an unfamiliar reader to dig around in order to interpret the results. While I don't think this article needs to explain the rules from scratch, a brief explanation and a relevant link might be beneficial. Manning (talk) 01:25, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is something we've been looking at in the past few months - we're aware of the problem and looking at the best way to fix it! Thanks, Severo^TC 17:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In fairness, we recognised the potential for confusion a few months ago, suggested a few ways around it, and then abandoned the discussion without conclusion. Time to revisit it perhaps. Kevin McE (talk) 19:37, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Easy enough to include a note like appears in Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's road race. I would like to not see it eleven (or however many) different times is all. Nosleep ^{break my slumber} 13:07, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]