Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/February 2016

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Some input for this discussion would be appreciated: Talk:Glossary of anime and_manga#Obscure terms. I as understand, the topic starter finds some of the terms obscure and not likely to be "encountered by your average reader" and therefore thinks they should be removed. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:35, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Rola (model) article is currently under discussion at the Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard following a request by a representative from Rola's management agency to remove a paragraph in the article about the arrest of her father. Interested editors may wish to comment at the relevant entry there. Thanks. --DAJF (talk) 23:34, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm wondering if there are any guidelines relating specifically to the naming of articles about high schools in Japan. I recently created Kawagoe Technical High School, which is operated by the Saitama Prefectural government. I noticed that on the main page (now yesterday) there was a link to Uwajima Fishery High School, but it redirects to Ehime Prefectural Uwajima Fishery High School. Excluding cases where it helps with disambiguation, is it necessary to have the name of the city/prefecture that operates a school in the article's title? AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:41, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a discussion at Category talk:Japanese singer-songwriters. But I suspect it has zero page watchers (except for perhaps Nihonjoe who created the category 10 years ago). So I am leaving a note here to generate some input. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:45, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon my ignorance, but when one refers to "Ibaraki, Japan", as here, is there a general consensus at which of the several items listed at Ibaraki it presumably refers to? Ibaraki Prefecture? Ibaraki, Ibaraki? Ibaraki, Osaka? TJRC (talk) 23:59, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@TJRC: Hm. For the purposes of diambiguation here, I think the default should go to Ibaraki Prefecture. With regard to the case on the website, it's a little hard to say. (City, country) is the general convention, but without more information, there's no way to be certain. I, JethroBT ^{drop me a line} 00:09, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On the website you reference, it could be either the prefecture or the city. Most of the time, though, when people in the western world give a place like that, they are referring to the city and country, as Jethro mentioned. If you are not sure, I would go with the prefecture as the city is in the prefecture. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:36, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to the both of you. It's a pretty good bet, then, that it wouldn't be Ibaraki, Osaka, anyway? This is for the article Helen Huang, just in case I wasn't clear.

I have the impression that this might be like when someone says they're from New York: you may not know whether they mean New York (state) (Ibaraki Prefecture) or New York, New York (Ibaraki, Ibaraki); but you're be pretty sure they didn't mean New York, Texas (Ibaraki, Osaka)... right? TJRC (talk) 03:37, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Right—most people wouldn't be aware of an Ibaraki in Osaka. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:50, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. First of all, it depends who "most people" are. Most people in the Western world wouldn't be aware of any Ibaraki full stop. So if somebody employed at Huang's school wrote her biography, they could have shortened "Ibaraki, Osaka, Japan" to "Ibaraki, Japan" without even bothering to look it up.

Second, the comparison with a village of 20 people in Texas is a horrible example. Ibaraki, Osaka is a city of 280,000 people, and according to this list it is larger than any city in Ibaraki prefecture. Ibaraki's main train station is just 10 miles (12 minutes, two stops) from downtown Osaka. Ibaraki prefecture on the other hand has other prefectures wedged between it and Tokyo.

I'd say it is equally likely her parents were working in Osaka and living in Ibaraki, which is basically a suburb of Osaka. So no assumption should be made without further evidence. From a practical stance, an email address is listed at that link. Would it be out of the question to contact her directly and solve the mystery? AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 05:33, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, what I said is awfully empiric. Google doesn't even turn up a mention of the Ibaraki in Osaka until the second page. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:21, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's interesting. When I click your link this is the third hit. I guess not all googles are alike. But let's not try to guess what area of a country someone is born based on a single page of google hits. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 06:35, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Most likely because Google knows your location—the third hit for me is this. Regardless, even for you I imagine the hits for the prefecture outpace those for the city in Osaka by quite a few times to one. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:43, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't read Chinese, but this article seems to suggest she was born in Osaka. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:49, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I googled "黄海伦" AND日本 AND 钢琴(piano) in Chinese. However I can't find anything related to 茨城 or 茨木. So we can't determine the place where she was born. I think this discussion is unconstructive.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:07, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I think it's very constructive. The next best thing to certainty is knowing about the uncertainty. If we can't identify the correct place with confidence, it's best to just note it as such rather than wikilink with false authority.

For now, I'm just going to mark it as "disambiguation required", until and unless an authoritative answer emerges. Thanks to all who are participating here; it's helpful. TJRC (talk) 17:25, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote to her and asked that she update her Juilliard bio page to clarify which one. We shall see if she will do that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't heard back from her yet. She probably won't respond. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 03:35, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please look at what happened to the Babymetal article. Before and after. (Or just look at the edit history.)

For example, it may need someone from WikiProject Japan to just say that this was a reliable source (Oricon) and this was a reliable source (Barks) and this was a reliable source (Musicman-Net, Barks) and that this edit changed the meaning of the original sources that were reliable, too,. Could you please do something?

(As you may remember, things like that happened before and that's why I'm asking someone more experienced with Wikipedia traditions to help. After all, the article was carefully sourced, it looked okay and now it's partially deleted and has warning templates.)

By the way, it seems that it all started here at the Administratiors' noticeboard. Just for you to understand how it may have started. --Moscow Connection (talk) 13:37, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing all of Drmies' edits, I agree with most of them. I replaced a small amount of information that was removed, but the overwhelming majority of content that Drmies removed needed to be removed. It might be worth asking for people from WikiProject Bands to come review it. It's better now than it was, but could use a good copyedit. I should also note that your link to ANI is no longer valid. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 03:27, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a working link if you wonder what happened: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive912#Genre warrior disrupting the Babymetal article - once again. --Moscow Connection (talk) 04:57, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• I agree with the removal of maybe one-third of what was removed. There were unnecessary details about the single "Ijime, Dame, Zettai", for example. I saw one sentence that wasn't sourced (it wasn't added by me) and some other minor unnecessary details and stuff that didn't sound too encyclopedic.
  The main problem is the beginning of the history section. The problem is that the history section had correct infomation about how the band was created and now it contains false information. It is now says that the band's producer wanted to create a metal group like that and created it. But it is not true and it was not what the article said when it was written according to the sources given. He just wanted to create some group around Suzuka's vocals. It could be a pop group or a folk group or whatever. (We don't even know when he added "-metal" to his name.) And he didn't want to create a trio. It was much later when he had an idea to add two little girls as dancers. And the article described his idea of the group's image. And the article previously correctly described the ethymology of the group's name. Why would someone remove it? And it said how old the girls were back when the group was created. And that it was created as a "heavy metal club" in Sakura Gakuin, not as a serious band. --Moscow Connection (talk) 04:57, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Could you help please. You and DAJF (ping). If you add what I wrote above to the article in an encyclopedic way, it will fix the mistake. (Now I'm just too shocked to do anything. I don't want to touch the article anymore.) --Moscow Connection (talk)

• If those edits caused such horrific shock as to prevent you from working n the article, then perhaps it is best that you don't. All articles here are subject to editing and reworking on a constant basis, and this one is no different. The edits were almost all appropriate and removed unnecessary fluff which shouldn't have been included regardless of how worded. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:32, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why? Everyone has the right to edit the article. But when the history section is made to say something incorrect and the article is tagged with templates saying, basically, that what's left should also be deteted, it is normal for me to be shocked. By the way, I think that the part that was removed was 100 times more important that most of the history section that was left. Cause it doesn't really matter when they released which DVD, but it does matter how the group was founded and why.
    By the way, thank you for the idea to discuss the matter at WikiProject Bands. I know should do it, but I'm afraid I'm still too busy on another Wikipedia. When I posted the previous message, I was simply hoping that someone would read it, understand how the group was created and add the story to the article in an encyclopedic way. --Moscow Connection (talk) 08:46, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Please stop twisting my words. You are the one who said, "Now I'm just too shocked to do anything. I don't want to touch the article anymore." Someone changing your edits should not "shock" you as this is Wikipedia and anyone can change your edits at any time. I suggest creating a Talk:Babymetal/sandbox page and working out your suggested changes there. Invite others to participate so that the end result is something arrived at by more than just one person. This will help avoid it sounding too much like a fan site (which was a valid commentary on what it was before Drmies waded into the fluff and excised it). This will also help avoid the problem of using non-reliable sources for information. Perhaps even invite Drmies to help with the wording and sourcing. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to, Joe--though you know I'm more of a Ladybaby fan. Drmies (talk) 16:48, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

LOL. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:03, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Joe, lots of big shots here--Salvidrim! is a fan too, judging from this edit. I believe that's a photo from their personal connection. Drmies (talk) 19:38, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a big fan of both, (although I do prefer Ladybaby, musically)! As for the picture, I just saw it in the jawiki article and noticed it was on Commons, so decided to add it to the band's enwiki article (at least until we have an article on Ladybeard himself). I also object to your characterization of me as a "bigshot" -- I'm highly irrelevant and I just write shitty articles about bad video games nobody ever played. ;) ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 19:44, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A friend and I introduced Ladybaby to another friend because we knew how he would react to it. Not my favorite group (not even close), but still fun to watch his reaction to Ladybaby. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:25, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A student walked by (to discuss a paper on Ecclesiasticus) just after I typed this, and I showed her the clip for "Age-Age Money". Her jaw dropped. Also, I think Bernie Sanders should use the song (and its subtitles) in his campaign material. Drmies (talk) 04:01, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm assuming y'all gentleman are lathering some sarcasm, but I genuinely like both these bands musically! I'm sure you probably still prefer "Age-Age Money" to my current ringtone... ;) ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 04:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(part 35,306). The article "Foreign branding" enlightens us:

Roland is a Japanese manufacturer of electronic music equipment with the name being chosen with the global market in mind. It is, however, difficult to pronounce for Japanese speakers, as they cannot differentiate "l" and "r" sounds.

I guess that explains why Japanese customers rarely ask in stores for Roland products, and why they're inevitably misunderstood ("No Sir, we only have Low-Land products", etc) when they do. -- Hoary (talk) 09:17, 21 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I started Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Year references because it seems the charts are being removed from the period articles. Feel free to use it and expand as necessary. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:06, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Though, perhaps it's only the table on the Showa article. Either way, I've created this page. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:10, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A useful tool. Could you maybe add an extra table with lunisolar→Gregorian date conversion for the early Meiji years, e.g. by explicit conversion of the first day: Meiji 4/1/1=Gregorian February 19, 1871 as in ja:明治#西暦との対照表 or the other way round Gregorian January 1, 1871=Meiji 3/11/11, or at least some note of caution that the years Meiji 1 to 5 do not correspond exactly to common era 1868 to 1872 as the Gregorian calendar was only officially introduced in Meiji 6/1873? In my experience, that occasionally causes confusion as some authors [outside Wikipedia] overlook the calendar change, and Wikipedia ends up with having to deal with apparently conflicting sources where it’s actually just a date conversion issue. --Asakura Akira (talk) 18:40, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:30, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. This will be very useful. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:08, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the discussions at Talk:Gunma_At-large_district_(House_of_Councillors)#Requested move 29 February 2016 and Talk:Tokushima At-large district (House of Councillors)#Requested move 29 February 2016 concerning the move of 11 articles about electoral districts. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]