Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/December 2010

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I think an article like this wikitravel page could be of interest for en-wikipedia as well. What do you think? Question is, are there any reliable sources for such lists or are there multiple definitions/versions for them? I'd also be interested to read a well-sourced article on Japanese fascination for top N lists. Anyone up for it? bamse (talk) 22:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

We have lists of the top 3, 4, and 5 ja:日本三大一覧 ja:日本四大一覧 and ja:日本五大一覧 and also ja:Category:名数 up to 100. We have some sources --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 06:56, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

A discussion is posted at Template talk:Japanese ethnicity#Regions with significant populations. Please participate in the discussion. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 04:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

In the article about Japanese Sign Language, one image is proposed for deletion here. This is the only image of someone actively using JSL.

File:Princess Akishino JSL.jpg is an unconventional image which shows the princess signing at high school sign language speech contest. As you may not know, this member of the Imperial family has studied JSL and interpreting for Japanese deaf. IMO, this image should not be deleted. I don't know how to distinguish between the fact that Princess Kiko signs and the fact that someone took a photograph of her signing. In either case, this image illustrates a small change in the context established by Juno Saruhashi and Yuko Takeshita. "Ten Linguistic Issues in Japan: The Impact of Globalization," Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.

I don't understand the complaint. I can't figure out how to respond to explicit criticism that there needs to be "analytical commentary on the picture"? --Tenmei (talk) 18:10, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Y The image of Princess Akishino was removed because a careful examination of the fair use rationale revealed critical flaws which could not be resolved. The discussion thread about deleting this file is archived at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 December 4#File:Princess Akishino JSL.jpg. --Tenmei (talk) 16:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

This might be useful: Box Office Mojo: Japan. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 06:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

If there is someone with better Japanese arguing skills than me, can you go convince the people here that the GFDL allows what they are saying it doesn't? I appreciate any help. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 16:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

The article Takahide Aioi needs his kanji name added. Also, there should be an article to link to in the JA wikipedia as he was chief of the Maritime Self Defense Force after the war. Thanks in advance. Cla68 (talk) 11:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I added kanji but couldn't find good reference. There is no corresponding Japanese article but found cs:Takahide Aioi. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 12:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much. Cla68 (talk) 11:31, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi,

I would like inputs for more knowledgeable editors on whatever TV show broadcasted on TV Tokyo and by extension TXN would pass Wikipedia:OUTCOMES#Broadcast_media.

Full disclosure the question was raised in the on-going The Flying House AfD.

Thanks. --KrebMarkt (talk) 08:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I am looking for the geo-coordinates of One Hundred Famous Views of Edo in KML/KMZ or any other format. Surely somebody must have put together those on the internet somewhere but I can't find it. Hope that somebody from the project could help. It would be used for the table in the One Hundred Famous Views of Edo article. bamse (talk) 11:14, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

ja:名所江戸百景 has links in the image caption. Some are approximate and some are exact place links where you can have the geo-coordinate. Great bridge is ja:新大橋 , Kinryūzan Temple is Sensō-ji , more precisely the gate is Kaminarimon or ja:雷門 has the geo-coordinate, and etc. Oda Mari Oda Mari (talk) 14:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I had hoped for a single list of coordinates which could be automagically translated into wikipedia's format. Seems that I will have to get them one by one. Also I had hoped to find (somewhat precise) coordinates for less well known places, such as this street in Kasumigaseki. bamse (talk) 16:26, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Although it's a blog and I'm not sure if the blog has the all places, I found something you wanted. This is the Kasumigaseki Street page and this is its linked page. Oda Mari (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks a lot. That's what I was looking for. They seem to have all the places and coordinates of the viewpoint + viewing direction (rather than just the coordinates of the main subject of the print). bamse (talk) 17:40, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I have nominated Japan for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Dana boomer (talk) 18:13, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Does anybody know of an online map of Edo period Tokyo (Edo)? It would be very good if the map allowed to compare locations in the past with present locations. Ideally the map should be from around 1856 to 1858 (for use in this article) or so. bamse (talk) 20:39, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

How about this page? This is the list of the maps. And I found this too. Other pages of the map shop are these. [1] and [2]. As for Nagatacho, see this. Though it's a 1859-60 map, you can see 16 pdf maps at here. Click the map on the page. Oda Mari (talk) 07:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

In case you have Google Earth installed, you can also use the overlay from the David Rumsey Map Collection [3] (They are included in the standard installation in Layers/Gallery/Rumsey Historical Maps or accessible online on the website). They have maps (all called "Tokyo") of 1680, 1799, 1858 and 1892. Just tried it, they seem to be useful for finding approximate present-day locations of historical places. --Asakura Akira (talk) 12:54, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Perfect! Thanks a lot. bamse (talk) 14:19, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

There are at least two ways of ordering the prints of the One Hundred Famous Views of Edo by Hiroshige:

1. Used here and at commons
2. Used here and here and at One Hundred Famous Views of Edo (the latter per Taschen book)

I am trying to find out which of the two orderings matches that in the table of contents. In the toc, the two boxes at the top correspond to spring (no. 1-42), the fan-shaped box to summer (no. 43-72), bottom right box to autumn (no. 73-98) and the bottom left box to winter (99-118 or 119). Differences between the two orderings occur for instance for no 69, 70, 71 (should be close to the left/bottom border of the fan-shaped part) or no. 45 (3rd entry in the fan-shaped part). It would be great if somebody could match the toc to either of the two orderings. bamse (talk) 22:58, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I think Commons' ordering is the correct one. Oda Mari (talk) 08:05, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Could it be that the difference is due to the fact that the titles in the toc are arranged (roughly) in two ("horizontal") lines and that one source reads them line by line (first top line then bottom line) and the other source alternates between lines (first title on top line->first title on bottom line -> second title on top line -> ...)? If that is the case, which reading corresponds to which source? bamse (talk) 10:57, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Replying to my own question. Indeed only the order of summer prints differs between "1" and "2". The difference is due to different reading of the titles in the fan-shaped part (=summer): "1" results from reading line by line (first top then bottom line) while "2" from reading alternatingly between top and bottom line. Spring, autumn and winter titles of the series are ordered line-by line for both "1" and "2" which would favour "1" as the correct (original) order for the summer prints. On the other hand, as far as I can see, the order of "1" is used in (old) early 20th century books, while "2" is used in more recent publications. bamse (talk) 15:07, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be three numbering systems: Tokyo University of the Arts Number (東京藝大番号), Minoru Harashida Number (原信田実番号) and Picture Number (絵番号). See this website. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 21:28, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

The former two numbering systems are based on the chronological order determined by the censor seals.[4] I am sorry this doesn’t respond to your question. However what we can say from these evidences is there are many numbering systems and none of which is a "legitimate" or "right" one. So I think it is enough to put a note which numbering system is used for the article. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for checking it out. Indeed, by order I meant the non-chronological order as given by the table of contents. The "Picture Number (絵番号)" in [5] matches that of the more recent sources ("2"). As I wrote, so far I haven't seen a recent source that uses the ordering "1". But probably you are right, and the order of the prints is not that important. After all the toc was not designed by Hiroshige. I'll add a note when I expand/rewrite the intro of One Hundred Famous Views of Edo. bamse (talk) 01:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

The difference is the way of reading in the fan-shaped part. But the #2 reading seems to be illogical to me. As a native speaker, it is more natural to read Yoroino watashi/鎧のわたし, Suidobashi/水道橋, Shouheibashi/昌平ばし if you should read the list by ordinary vertical reading. But in the #2 list, the order is Yoroi, Shohei, Suidobashi. In vertical reading, we don't read line/s as く, but like リ. That's why I thought the #1 reading was correct and it's the same way of reading as other lists. I agree with Phoenix7777 and bamese that the ordering is not important and there would be no problem by adding a note to the article. Oda Mari (talk) 07:07, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Just for your information: The reasoning for "2" ordering per Taschen book is the following. The titles in the fan-shaped part are organized in groups of three. Each of these triple groups starts with a title (writen with strong characters at the top), to the left of it is the second title in the group and somewhat below the third title. This style of writing is also called chirashigaki (scattered writing). bamse (talk) 21:34, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I see. Thank you for the information. I'm ashamed of my ignorance. Oda Mari (talk) 05:43, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

No need to be ashamed. After reading a bit, I still don't understand the rules of this style. Apparently the way to read it is connected to the strength of characters but that's all I understood. BTW, in another source (not related to ukiyoe or Hiroshige) it said that chirashigaki was typically used for poetry and for writings on fans. bamse (talk) 08:50, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Please help save this image-it may not fit on Commons, but it is okay here.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:45, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

It was tagged with an invalid speedy delete tag, which I have removed. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 17:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Is that file still under fire? I thought the deletion debate ended about a half a year ago... TomorrowTime (talk) 19:28, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Apparently. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 05:10, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

It ended at Commons, the deletionist wants to keep making it an issue everywhere.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 23:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Anyone want to come up with a good description for it? It has no description right now. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 07:19, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I've done some work on an article or two, and I think they should be re-assessed, and possibly upgraded in quality evaluation. Where do I request an article to be re-assessed? Boneyard90 (talk) 04:31, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

You can do it here or at Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Assessment#Requests for assessment (which reminds me, I need to go clean that up). ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 07:21, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

I just created {{Japan current era date}} for use in a few places, and I thought I'd mention it here in case anyone else needs to use it. It can be used a couple different ways, so please read the documentation so you'll be aware of them. Enjoy! ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 02:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

That is way cool, thank you!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

This is in really poor shape-it's not a list as claimed, nor is it an article. What should be done?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I moved it to Japanese clothing as it is not a list. If it ever becomes a list, it can be moved back. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 08:22, 29 December 2010 (UTC)