Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/August 2009

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Talk & archives for WP Japan
Project talk 2006 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2007 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2008 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2009 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2010 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2011 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2012 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2013 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2014 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2015 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2016 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2017 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2018 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2019 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2020 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2022 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2023 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Task force talk/archives ↔ Baseball (1) Bibliography (1) ↔ Cinema (1) ↔ CJKV (1) ↔ Districts and municipalities (1) Gaijin tarento (1) ↔ Military history (1, 2, 3) Music (1) Mythology (1, 2, 3, 4) Owarai (1) Politics (1) Prefectures (1) Royalty & nobility (1) Science & technology (1) Shinto (1) ↔ Tokyo (1) ↔ Transwiki ↔ = joint task force
Old notice board All of 2004 Jan–Mar 2005 Apr–Jun 2005 Jul–Oct 2005 Nov–Dec 2005 Jan–Feb 2006 Feb–May 2006 Jun–Dec 2006 Jan–Jun 2007 Jun 2007 – Sep 2008
Related talk/archives Anime and manga (index) Hello! Project (1) Pokémon (index, PAC (1, 2), PAC 2) Sumo (1, 2, 3) Square Enix (index) Tokusatsu (index) Trains (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Search the archives:
V·T·E

Hello everyone. I'm having a bit of trouble deciding what the Japanese title is for Metroid II: Return of Samus (here's the front of the Japanese packaging). Should the English logo be ignored, making "メトロイド II" the full title? And how should the "II" be romanized? Tsū? Thanks in advance. -sesuPRIME 03:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Why not just take your cue from ja:メトロイドII_RETURN_OF_SAMUS? They don't put II into kana there; perhaps it would be an overtranslation for you to do the same. Also the use of romaji can just be considered as a bit of Engrish, i.e. integral to the Japanese title. VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 04:15, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Metroid II: Return of Samus (メトロイドII, Metoroido Tsū)

This is the way that makes most sense to me because I've never seen "メトロイドII" (kana) and "Return of Samus" (English) paired together in any official Japanese material. It's always the English logo "Metroid II: Return of Samus", usually followed by "メトロイドII". -sesuPRIME 02:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Since "Return of Samus" is part of the title, it should be romanized, too: Metroid II: Return of Samus (メトロイドII RETURN OF SAMUS, Metoroido Tsū: Ritān obu Samusu). ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:52, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Er, really? And I thought all-caps was discouraged in Wikipedia? -sesuPRIME 05:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

They are in the title of the article. When listing the title of the game/album/book/whatever in the first line of the article, however, it's common practice to list it exactly how it appears (at least with Japanese titles). This was a compromise to appease those who wanted the article title to be exactly like it appeared on the original cover. Any subsequent appearances in the article use standard English capitalization rules. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I did a bit of poking around Nintendo's Japanese site and found this page that pairs the katakana with the English subtitle. I am a bit bothered that the page uses "2" rather than "II" though. -sesuPRIME 00:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

So I'm starting to put together an article for the NPB MVP Award. I have the list put together, but it isn't really from reliable sources. I've looked hard in english, but there really doesn't seem to be a reliable source, so now I'm looking in Japanese. This is where I need some help. So far I've found http://www.baseball-museum.or.jp which has the information I need, but only when you search for indiviual players. Can someone better at Japanese possibly find a complete list on this site or any other reliable site?? Thanks! --Torsodog^Talk 01:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

For the Pacific League there is a list on its website at http://www.pacific.npb.or.jp/bluebook/blumvp.html (monthly MVPs can also be found there at http://pacific.npb.or.jp/bluebook/blumonth.html). Central League MVPs are in the CL's website history section at http://www.npb.or.jp/cl/entertaiment/record/pdf/2009/13.pdf (monthly MVPs: http://www.npb.or.jp/cl/info/c_info/mvp_old.html) --Asakura Akira (talk) 11:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)　Ｐ.S.: The CL list is sorted by team and also includes other awards, but I coldn't find another one on its website. I don’t know if that's reliable enough; but Sports Hōchi (Yomiuri) has more compact MVP lists: CL, PL, single league era --Asakura Akira (talk) 11:34, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Ahhh, perfect! These lists are more than enough. Thanks for finding them! --Torsodog^Talk 17:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

You are all invited to join WikiProject TRANSWIKI and join the Japanese language transwiki project. The aim is to draw up a full directory of missing articles from Japanese wikipedia and build a team of translators to work at bridging the gaps in knowledge. We need your help, so if there are any Japanese speakers here please join up as your language skills are crucial. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm hoping for some help about a particular grave marker in Seattle's Lake View Cemetery: four images here. I believe the inscription is Japanese (though if so it is 100% kanji, no kana so it might be Chinese). I think it is Japanese because of the "lanterns" in this image and the 1931 date (the Japanese community in Seattle at that time was much more likely to have a citizen who would erect such a monument than the Chinese community).

Once I get some more information about the pictures, I'll upload them to Commons with appropriate names. Thanks in advance for any help. - Jmabel | Talk 17:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but it does not look like a grave but some memorial tower of Nichiren Buddhism. The big letters of this image is 南無妙法蓮華經. 昭和六年十月十三日 is October 13, sixth year of Shōwa/1931. Oda Mari (talk) 18:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

• User:Takashi Ueki, a new user, has "took over" many Shinto-related articles and has been making many, many changes to some high profile articles. I haven't really taken an in-depth look yet, but right off the bat I noticed that they moved "Amaterasu" to Amaterasu Omikami and "Inari (mythology)" to Inari Okami and added "-no-Mikoto" to several other article names such as Ame-no-Uzume-no-Mikoto, Susanoo-no-Mikoto and Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto. However, it does not look like there was any discussion about these moves... so I'm going to start it up now before they continue on with their edits for too much longer. Any thoughts or opinions on these? Also, it might be worth watching this user's contribution history, as they seem to be making many large, sweeping changes without consulting anyone. --Torsodog^Talk 13:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
• They also moved "Shinto shrine" to Shinto Shrine, capilializing the "S" in shrine. I don't think this is correct, as it isn't a proper noun...? Fg2 took care of this. --Torsodog^Talk 13:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
• This user was also responsible for getting User:Shii to rename the Ise Shrine page to Ise Jingu, basically changing the article from its English to Japanese name without any forewarning or discussion on that page's talkpage. Ka-ru (talk) 07:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

• Amaterasu Omikami: I support this title, but "Amaterasu" as a shorthand is enough in most articles. Shinto gods' names are often written in katakana like アマテラス because there are many kanji spellings, so I think katakana should be added to each article.
• Inari Okami: This is an alternative name of Inari in Japanese, so I don't support this move. The Japanese article is titled ja:稲荷神, "Inari no kami" or "Inari-shin" and lists alternative names in the lead, like "Inari Daimyōjin (稲荷大明神) and O-Inari-san (sama). "Inari Okami" is mentioned in the first section (overview) though. I think Inari would be the best title in English.
• Ame-no-Uzume, Susanoo and Tsukuyomi: I think we can omit "-no-Mikoto" from well-known names.
• Ise Jingu: I support the move. I think Japanese names are better for shrines and temples. Shinkansen Fan (talk) 22:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

There's an edit war going on here, filled with poor editing, anyone up for a lockdown? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 17:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

There is no war. The issue was discussed and resolved on the article's talk page. --Torsodog^Talk 17:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I have twice reverted this sentence in Japanese people: "Japanese people are descendants from black people."

Serial reverted edits at Sakanoue no Tamuramaro and Sakanoue no Karitamaro assert that these historical figures have an Afro-Japanese heritage.

This problem is outside the scope of normal editing. Someone else needs to intervene. --Tenmei (talk) 18:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The IP was blocked and is now working under a sock. I've hit my three-revert limit, who's next? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 18:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

For obvious vandalism, there is no three-revert limit. This is obviously vandalism. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:54, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

It appears that things have quieted down, although it seems like there might be at least a few sleeper accounts here that could force page protection. Dekimasuよ! 19:00, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

What are the chances that somebody would be able to translate the text in this image? I realize it's old, but it's worth a shot. wadester16 05:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

18th century is quite modern. It says 芳月堂丹鳥斎奥村文角政信梅翁画. Essentially it is just a bunch of names that the author goes by. You may identify him as Okumura Masanobu (1686-1764). 124.214.131.55 (talk) 07:40, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I assumed it was just the signature of or credit for the artist. wadester16 08:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, would you be interested in translating the text in these three images? It would be helpful if the text and an accompanying translation were available on the image page.

1. File:Ase o fuku onna2.jpg
2. File:Red Fuji southern wind clear morning.jpg
3. File:Suikoden.jpg

Thank you in advance, but please don't feel obligated. wadester16 08:49, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

The first just says 「歌麿筆」 (Utamaro hitsu); it's just the artist's signature.

The title given inside the white box (cartouche) on the image of Mt Fuji is 「冨嶽三十六景・凱風 / 快晴」 (Fugaku sanjūrokkei / kaifū / kaisei). Fugaku is an alternate name for Mt Fuji; sanjūrokkei means 'Thirty-Six Views'. Kaifū refers to a gentle wind or relaxing breeze from the south. Kaisei refers to wonderfully clear and beautiful weather.

I cannot quite make out the characters used in the signature (in the blue to the right of the white cartouche), but it essentially just says something like Hokusai ga.

On the Suikoden Image, the signature near the bottom left corner reads 「一勇斎國芳画」　(Ichiyūsai Kuniyoshi ga). The rest, I could take a stab at, but I think I'll just leave it for someone with better skills; no sense in giving mistaken information. LordAmeth (talk) 13:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Just found this, can someone knowledgeable please give it a look-see? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 15:56, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

This one could use major cleanup, please help. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 08:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

This article is on the book; there's a separate article on the film. Nearly all this article on the book is a summary of the plot of the film, and the article on the film already has an extensive plot summary. There's a merge tag in the section of the article on the book. The merger will result in removing the section from the article on the book. It seems pointless to put much work into the plot summary of the film prior to merging. Why not delete that whole section now? If someone wants to do the merger, the material remains accessible through the article history. Fg2 (talk) 09:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Osaka Pro Wrestling and Osaka Pro Wrestling Championship are/have been up for AfD. Wonder if there is some sort of sourcing bias. Could somebody check if the articles exist in the Japanese project, and most importantly, if there are RS in Japanese? Power.corrupts (talk) 14:05, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The user posted the above on the project front page, then an IP deleted it without moving it here. Moved it here for discussion. TomorrowTime (talk) 07:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I messed up the main page, my mistake. Power.corrupts (talk) 09:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Well as the nominator of said articles and frequent editor of wrestling articles plus currently working on the IWGP Tag Team Championship in a subpage, there are reliable sources in the promotion itself, but as for reliable wrestling Japanese sites, the only one used was Strong Style Spirit, which was considered reliable and then the opinion was changed so at the moment I know of none.--WillC 11:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The Japanese for the championship is 大阪プロレス王座. The Japanese Wikipedia article is at ja:大阪プロレス王座. Try your favorite search for that term and see if you can get newspaper articles or other reliable sources. Fg2 (talk) 11:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

No news sites yet, but I have found around three third party title history sites that cover the promotion, a few mentions in Canadian Online Explorer articles, and a few Japanese sites.--WillC 12:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The article Kabushiki gaisha was originally named Kabushiki kaisha. It was moved in November 2008 using rationale not based on Wikipedia guidelines. I believe that the guidelines would recommend the original title, but would like some experts to verify. Please add your comments at Talk:Kabushiki gaisha/Archives/2011#Spelling. Ham Pastrami (talk) 05:02, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding List_of_Rurouni_Kenshin_characters#Arai_Family - How are "gojaru" and "de gozaru" written in Japanese? Would one have to read the series to figure this out, or would someone be able to tell just like this? I would like to include how "gojaru" and "de gozaru" are written in this section of List_of_Rurouni_Kenshin_characters - Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 18:39, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Haven't heard anyone using "gojaru", but unless I'm mistaken, it's a childlike corruption of "gozaru", in which case it would be simply ごじゃる. With "de gozaru" you have to options - most often it's simply hiragana:　でござる, but there is also the option of writing it in kanji, which is much rarer though: で御座る. Someone would have to pick up the manga to check which of the two is used. TomorrowTime (talk) 18:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

In Rurouni Kenshin "gojaru" is indeed a childlike corruption of "de gozaru" (used by a character named Arai Iori) I'd have to see how "de gozaru" is written in Rurouni Kenshin. Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 03:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Hiragana (volume 1, page 10). Dekimasuよ! 03:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and it would be extremely rare for it to be written any other way than in hiragana (or perhaps katakana for emphasis). ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, those shonen comic books all have furigana, so a lot of them (especially the period ones) just write everything in kanji even when it's uncommon or non-standard (其れ、但し、幾ら、出鱈目...). Dekimasuよ! 06:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

True, but not so much with the common sentence ending verbs. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Murder of Junko Furuta needs sourcing big time. It may be a NPOV concern. If anybody's good with Japanese, please source from Japanese sources. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

This one is really suffering, please look. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 14:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, there is a contest against totally undiscussed cut-and-paste blanking/merging/splitting of East Asian calligraphy by Asoer (talk · contribs). I don't see any active discussion on the edit, so there is naturally no consensus for that. Since it is pertinent to at least "four WikiProject", I'm drawing your attention to the article and hope you would give some useful input on the matter on Talk:East Asian calligraphy. Any active members who are interests in East Asian culture/art would be greatly helpful for the issue. Thanks.--Caspian blue 03:22, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_China#What_to_call_East_Asian_calligraphy. Asoer (talk) 04:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Please weigh in on the discussion on the talkpage. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 17:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I have done a GA Reassessment of this article as part of the GA Sweeps project. I have found that the article does not meet the current GA Criteria. My assessment can be found here. It is a very strong article but there are a couple of issues that give me concern. I have put the article on hold for a week pending work. I am notifying all interested projects and editors of this. Should you have questions or concerns please contact me on my talk page. H1nkles (talk) 21:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The translation page seems defunct and the new translation page seems to be for existing articles only. I need someone who can read japanese to translate a sports roster for an article if they have time. Website in question is here: [1]. Wikiarticle is here: Tohoku Free Blades. if someone can look at the roster page and the news (I think there is a news item detailing the full list of players) and just make a list with English translation, Japanese name, position I'll work that into a table into the article. Thanks!--Crossmr (talk) 02:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Like this?

• GK#29 Keisuke Itō (伊藤 慶介)
• GK#33 Daisuke Sakai (酒井 大輔)
• DF#8 Jūji Kikuchi (菊池 秀治)
• DF#9 Takuya Nakamura (中村 卓矢)
• DF#16 Jeffrey Kōichi Homma (本間 ジェフリー光一)
• DF#35 Yūto Hara (原 優人)
• DF#44 Yasuhiro Ōuchi (大内 康裕)
• FW#10 Kentarō Sadamune (貞宗 謙太郎)
• FW#17 Ryūichi Kurata (倉田 龍一)
• FW#18 Kōta Tanaka (田中 孝太)
• FW#19 Kōsuke Takahashi (高橋 皓介)
• FW#21 Kazuki Yamamoto (山本 和輝)
• FW#22 Shō Tanaka (田中 翔)
• FW#41 Yūjirō Kasahara (笠原 裕二郎)

Dekimasuよ! 04:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

A news item (maybe the one you mentioned) shows there are two new players:

• GK Michio Hashimoto (橋本　三千雄)
• FW Yoshikazu Kashino (樫野　善一)

It doesn't have their numbers. Dekimasuよ! 04:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I linked the article to the Japanese one ja:東北フリーブレイズ. Hope this helps. Shinkansen Fan (talk) 07:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! There are more players, I know they signed 4 Canadians for the team and I had picked that up through a wordpress site.. it linked a japanese site. This is the wordpress page [2] which has a link to this [3]. Those players I have the english names, but I'd like the japanese translations if it isn't too much trouble.--Crossmr (talk) 08:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Takeo Kimura filmography is currently a featured list candidate here. I generally try to avoid making direct pleas for reviews, however: One, FLC is experiencing a shortage of reviewers (holiday season, I guess). Two, the filmography is drawn almost exclusively from Japanese sources limiting the already limited number of reviewers. And, three, FLC moves faster than FAC and GAN and, without sufficient activity, I've reason to suspect it may be shut down at the candidacy period's 10 day minimum. As of day five, it's had one reviewer who, quite logically, won't support until it's been reviewed by someone who can verify the main sources. Basically, I'm soliciting anyone who can romanize hiragana or better as I'd hate to see it fail because of the language barrier. To make this as painless as possibly I've explained how I compiled the filmography at the candidacy page and if any interested parties would like a further crash course, I'll be happy to oblige. Otherwise, if you could point me to anyone both with said skills and susceptible to begging, I'll take that too. Thanks very much, Doctor Sunshine (talk) 17:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

How do I translate 帖 (counter for paper)? bamse (talk) 10:11, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Eijiro has it as 'quire.' I've also seen it translated as 'books' or 'scrolls.' Do you have a specific example you could show me?--Cckerberos (talk) 14:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Various entries at User:Bamse/National Treasures of Japan (writings) (taken from [4]) contain this counter. From what I understand, the bunka website uses 巻 as counter for handscrolls and 幅 for hanging scrolls. bamse (talk) 15:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, from looking up the word in a Japanese-Japanese dictionary and looking at pictures of some of the items that use the counter, I think it's only used for items that are folded, like [5], [6], and [7].--Cckerberos (talk) 17:04, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Could I call such items "folding book"? bamse (talk) 17:15, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I believe so. You could probably just use "volume" as well.--Cckerberos (talk) 17:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

As a counter, a 帖 is unit for counting a fixed number of flat objects. For example, 1帖 of hanshi (半紙) is equivalent to 20 sheets, 1帖 of minogami (美濃紙) is equivalent to 50 (historically 48) sheets, 1帖 of chirigami (塵紙) is equivalent to 100 sheets, 1帖 of western-style paper is equivalent to 12 sheets, 1帖 of seaweed is equivalent to 10 sheets, etc. If you know what kind of paper it is, then you can translate it as "X sheets of paper". Otherwise, a quire is not too bad. 124.214.131.55 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC).

Thanks a lot. Not sure what the paper is, so I went with "quire ({{nihongo|folding book|帖|}". bamse (talk) 17:40, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

It can be used as such a counter for flat objects, but that's not the only meaning. Kotobank has "used for counting folding books, folding screens, shields, kesa, etc." as a separate meaning for 帖.[8] That seemed more likely to me.--Cckerberos (talk) 18:04, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I would welcome some collaboration at Aquascaping#Nature style from editors with expertise here. There, I've added the terms "iwagumi," "oyaishi," "soeishi," and "fukuseki" in English alphabet renderings of their pronunciations, but it would be very helpful if someone could add their representations in the Japanese alphabet as well (as for "wabi-sabi" in the same section). And, of course, any other additions about Japanese aesthetics would be welcome too. Thanks in advance for your help! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I know nothing about the topic I'm afraid, but I did add the Chinese characters for the various Japanese terms.--Cckerberos (talk) 19:01, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Yukio Hatoyama could do with some fixing up in light of the election results tonight, if anyone has some time. Dekimasuよ! 11:47, 30 August 2009 (UTC)