Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cycling/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Not sure of the formalities here... I'm new to wikipedia, but reckon I'll just bash on... I would like to propose that the BMX section is seperated into BMX_racing and BMX_freestyle, since the racing section is huge and goes very deep into the specifics of the sport. Then the BMX page would have just a short description of racing, and a list of the disciplies within freestyle, along with links to the new pages. What do you all think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by NickBMX (talk • contribs)

In essense i agree, however care needs to be taken regarding the earlier periods of the sport which encompassed both racing and freestyle in one. The current main page definately needs some work to re-organise what is currently there. I would think a short general history text which then breaks the two off at a suitable point on that timeline. The current media section then also needs to be reconsidered. The current popularity heading seems unneccessary as a heading. Bicycle design should be moved. Wtprob 17:21, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Gflores ^Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

How about the Bicycle article? It was a featured article not too long ago, and I think that all the contributors have done a good enough job in cleaning out possible POV/copyright issues. Julius.kusuma 20:47, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful! Any other articles near FA status? keep the suggestions coming. Gflores ^Talk 21:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Motorized bicycle was pretty good until Pat slapped tags all over it ;-) - Just zis  Guy, you know? ^[T]/_[C] 22:43, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I made an article on cycling records to tie together some of the interesting discussions I've had elsewhere about various records, how fast, how much they've changed over tie and so on. The hour record article does this well within its own scope, I was hoping eventually to have a similar table with a few milestones (not every one, just things like Merckx's records, the Mochet Velocar record and so on), and to answer that perennial question "what's the fastest bike". Especially I want to keep clear of the luddite UCI restrictions and show how paced, faired and so on compare with stick-bike records. Of course I may be duplicating an extant article, but I couldn't find it. - Just zis  Guy, you know? ^[T]/_[C] 22:46, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

One of our newest contributors Danilot has put a great amount of work on short commentaries of many of the recent races, such as Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2005. The way things are presented now, it is barely visible from Liège-Bastogne-Liège. I think there should be a better way to present these child-pages. Maybe I'm just too much of a cycling geek. Any thoughts? Julius.kusuma 15:33, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Hm. I'm not sure about the WP:NC regarding this, but in Category:Tour de France, all the races are titled year first. TdF seems to have the most coverage here, so I suggest patterning things off of there, using category and series box. --Christopherlin 20:20, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Working my way through the stubs, seeing what i can expand, i came accross the Derailleur hanger article. In my experience, the terms 'derailleur hanger' and 'mech hanger' are as synonymous as the terms 'derailleur' and 'mech'. I think what was meant by the term 'mech hanger' is 'direct bolt on' (as i think Shimano term the fitting) as on older and/or cheaper mechs. Before rewriting the article on that basis, wanted to check this wasn't just a regional difference.--Lordandmaker 21:17, 11 Mar 2006 (GMT)

I've just rewritten the article. Lordandmaker 16:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we're going to get a reasonable article out of the topic of a spline interface without reverting to talking about the merits (or lack thereof) of the entire system, and even then we'd be hard pushed.

I think it'd make sense to add it to the Bottom Bracket article, and add to this sections on Square Taper, Octalink and the various 3pc designs. I can probably write most of that, but i've no pictures.... --Lordandmaker21:40 11 Mar 2006 (GMT)

Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages has information on the process of merging articles. Basically, you can tag both articles with the appropriate merge tags. Discussion should follow, followed by the actual execution. Of course, you could point the discussion with a wikilink to this talk page.

For images, I've found that there are good pictures on the German language wikipedia. See the "other languages" links (on the left side of the default skin). For example, de:Innenlager is bottom bracket. --Christopherlin 00:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I've created a page for the typical road bike Seat Bag using my own photos. It's possible an article already exists for this, using some other terminology common in other parts of the English speaking world. I'm not sure. Thewalrus 17:49, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

This is an exact copy of what i've put in the bashplate article talk page:

This article is about Bashrings, not bashplates. Bashplates attach to the downtube/BB junction on trials (mostly 20") bikes. Bashrings attach to the crankarm.

Unless we can come up with a title that will encompass info about both?

What is the correct procedure for this? I invisage renaming the bashplate article as 'bashring' and writing a new bashplate article? A c+p move seems easiest, but the new bashrings page would lose the history. And is there a term that covers both?

--Lordandmaker 02:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Copy/paste moves are bad, because as you noted, it destroys the edit history. See WP:MM and WP:MOVE for rationale. Is bashguard used anywhere? It sounds like it might encompass both -plate and -ring. --Christopherlin 05:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, yes, bashguard. I've heard it used to talk about either. So move 'bashplate' to 'bashguard' and have a section for plates and rings? I'll do that when i've written an article (and hopefully found some images). --Lordandmaker 12:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've rewritten and moved the article. It's now at Bashguard. Do i delete this section now, or do we preserve it for posterity? --Lordandmaker 22:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Came accross the downhill article. It's got a link at the top to the film, but i can't work out how to make it link to DH riding, too. I checked the Template:Otherusesof page, and the most appropriate template is up for deletion, so i'm presuming it's not wise to use it. When i try to use the example suggested as replacement, it automatically links to Downhill:disambiguation. Do i need to make this page now, or can i have two 'see also's at the top of an article. I'd prefer the latter, given how many people will be looking purely for the skiing.

-- Lordandmaker 22:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added subsections in the cycling shoe page for cleat tension, float, and a relative comparison of sole materials (plastic, fibreglass, carbon fibre etc) and the relative flexiness of shoes. I also uploaded a photo of my new shoes with Crank Brothers cleat attached. If anybody has photos of bare cleats of different types (look keo, time, speedplay, campagnolo, spd-sl, m2racer, etc) can you please upload them? I was thinking about the idea of a horizontal set of thumb nails across the bottom of the page with 150 pixel wide illustrations of the 6-8 most common types of cleats and mounting. Also any photo of the original 1984 LOOK pedal used by Hinault that popularized clipless would be good, I could add it to the bicycle pedal article. There is a good photo of it on the LOOK website but it's copyrighted. Thewalrus 15:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I forgot, we also need a highres closeup photo of a shoe with a carbon fibre sole. The road shoe on the page currently has a plastic sole. Thewalrus 15:52, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

In my spare time I have made Image:Annotated bicycle.jpg since the previously used illustration of a bicycle frame can use some prettifying. Any comments on how I can improve this image? Usage in bicycle somewhere?

Julius.kusuma 23:51, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

• The image looks good. I'd add a detailed section that shows the drivetrain (the pedals, cranks, chain, chainrings, and the front and rear derailleurs). Maybe an illustration of the brakes would be helpful, too. --Elkman - ^(talk) 04:22, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

May be worth doing ones of different types/layouts of bikes? Also more detailled images of the bars (and the various ways of laying them out) might be handy. I'll see if i can get any of that done, but it'll be monday before i can start. Somewhere i've got a half-done one for a disc brake system... -- Lordandmaker 12:35, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Veloeuropa.com features your photography? Cool. Yeah, for illustrating bicycle, that would be good. For illustrating bicycle frame, perhaps annotating an image of a frame(set) alone might be more clear.

I like that this picture has no background, unlike the Lemond Zurich that Thewalrus uploaded. Is background removal/extraction difficult? I'm thinking arrows to point out different parts; the chain stay label might be a little ambiguous for those without exposure. --Christopherlin 19:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I think there needs to be an article, or at least a page, for the Drivetrain of a bicycle. Not sure how to go about it, though. One thought is a disambig page style layout: "The drivetrain of a bicycle consists of the following parts", the other is to merge the various stubs on (and add sections for) the parts of the drivetrain (crankset, chainrings, BB, mechs, cassette/freewheel, rear hub, chain). Any ideas/opinions?

I flagged that article for accuracy, and raised a number of questions about its content on its talk page. I may be completely misremembering this, but I don't think the Stingray or Krate were "cruiser bicycles," they were what we used to call "wheelie bikes". Smerdis of Tlön 20:03, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I overhauled, corrected, and referenced the Cruiser article on November 2, 2006. You are correct about the Stingrays and I also clarified the confusion between balloon tire cruisers and the "cruiser" class of BMX racing. Kingandrew

Having created the new page turbo trainer I discovered the page bicycle trainer which covers the same topic. I get the impression that the latter term is almost always used in the US: the former is almost always used in the UK and presumably some other countries, as the two terms get almost equal hits on google. Logically the pages should be merged but we have a problem with the title to use, because the terms are used to such a similar extent, but each appears to be almost unknown in the parts of the world where the other is used. Any thoughts? Elroch 00:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I've almost always heard terms like "riding the turbo" or "on a turbo" used by UK or Australian based riders to describe winter indoor training. Very rarely is it heard in Canada or the USA. In North America the most common term is definitely Trainer. If there's two separate pages for the same piece of equipment, can we get an admin to point one (turbo?) at the other as a redirect? Assuming the most useful content and photos from both pages can be merged into one. Thewalrus 03:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Reverted the guy who made a wholesale deletion of fixed-gear bicycle. He completely removed the Brakes section. Seems to me it's useful information considering their popularity for urban riding. Thewalrus 03:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Made some edits to Cycling shorts, should we also have bib shorts in here? If I can get some freely licenced photos of bib shorts I could do a writeup comparison of $30 basic shorts vs. $150 pro level bib shorts. Am I right in assuming that images released for purely promotional purposes (advertising) are OK to use? If so we can grab some photos from the Assos website or another manufacturer of bibs. Thewalrus 03:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that links to manufacturers have been eliminated on a number of pages. This is a bad idea as the manufacturer sites for things like shaft drives are where the most important information is. Folding bikes are so idiosyncratic that you cannot study them without going to manufacturer sites. It is also strange that a link to an external site listing manufacturers is ok, but posting the manufacturer websites on wikipedia is not. geo8rge 66.3.84.36 00:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I have been posting high quality photos from the Tour. There will be more to come. Until then you can see ones for Tom Boonen, George Hincapie, and more. Kallenovsky 05:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Kallenovsky, it's great to see that WikiProject Cycling is being represented on the front lines of the Tour - keep the pictures coming. I wonder though if you'd consider uploading your photos instead to Wikimedia Commons, so that they'll be available to all of Wikipedia's sister projects. -- Mindfrieze 14:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure no problem. My appologies for the late reply. I'm uploading more of them and placing into the Tour de France section. Kallenovsky 08:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Bicycle is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 11:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Clubs are the lifeblood of amateur cycling. They are responsible for nurturing enthusiasm, interest and a sense of involvement amongst cyclists at across Europe and beyond. Some clubs are quite new, many are more than a century old. The vast majority of professional cyclists have roots in a cycling club.

I have three proposals

1) A 'cycling club' category, with national subcategories.

2) An effort to add existing entries for established cycling clubs to the appropriate category.

3) The creation of categorised stubs for clubs not yet on wikipedia.

Thoughts?--Fergie 20:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

There is already Category:Cycling organisations. Still, It wouldn't hurt to create a sub-cat of Category:Cycling clubs. -Dhodges 14:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

What's a good criterion for a clubs' notability? Twinxor t 18:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

There is at least one amateur club in Category:Cycling teams, is it misplaced? I made the stub because their elite team was the start for Team CSC, and because Bjarne Riis rode there.--Per Abrahamsen 18:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I suggest the only criterion required for a clubs' notability should be that its current and/or historic existence be verifiable. --Serge 19:19, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I recently purhaced a new bike with this suspention system, which, I don't think has any infromation on it. I dont't even know the proper name. Anyway, here is a picture so you can see. It looks pretty unique so it probably should be added to the bike suspention article or the suspention type should get it's own article. Thanks, Dfrg.msc ^{1 . 2 . 3} 07:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

What you've got there is a full-suspension mountain bike with a single-pivot suspension. The Mountain bike article lists the different suspension types, though as you mention, there should probably be some pictures for context. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 14:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It's currently misnamed Comunitat Valenciana (cycling team). See the spanish wiki for the proper spelling. Kleuske 20:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

"Recreational cycling" isn't really an accurate category for Critical Mass. It's more a hybrid of demonstration and celebration. An Activism or Advocacy category would be more appropriate. Jym 18:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Would a Category of BMX or bike tricks be worthwhile, paralleling Category:Skateboarding tricks?--NYArtsnWords 19:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Dfrg.msc, and I want to make some constructive edits to Wikipedia. It's not that I am unable to, I would just like some guidance. So, if you have any specific tasks related to this topic, please inform me on my talk page, be specific and include links and I'll help out as soon as I can. Thanks, Dfrg.msc ^{1 . 2 . 3} 07:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Beginning cross-post.

See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 02:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.

Lately, I've put some work into new infoboxes for professional cyclists and cycling teams. Please take a look at User:Mk3severo/sandbox.

Cyclist infobox

Whilst there was nothing wrong with Template:Road bicycle racer infobox for biographies of road racers, the old template did not cover professionals in other disciplines or retired racers, whether they are still involved in cycling or not. My new template aims to be more comprehensive in detailing what discipline(s) the rider is involved in and their role within the team. It also takes from some other sports biography infoboxes in including an updated field, which I included for active riders. It can also be used for management staff.

Cycling team infobox

One doesn't seem to exist so the template is altered from Template:Infobox Football club. It can be used for both present and former teams. The team kit is taken from the Football club infobox, with the minor alteration to remove socks.

Before implementing them, I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions on fields or styling. Thanks, Mk3severo 22:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Cycling race infobox

I have also created an infobox for cycling races, which aims to standardise how races are presented on their front pages. This can also be viewed at User:Mk3severo/sandbox. Please leave your comments and suggestions here. Mk3severo 00:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Finally happy with this template, now at Template:Cycling race infobox. I still have a few things I'm not sure about. In terms of colours, many of the tables currently in use use background heading colours, sometimes of the colour of the leader's jersey but sometimes seemingly random. Any thoughts on what colour should be used, especially in the many races which do not have leader's jerseys? Common colours in all boxes? Common colours based on competition? Mk3severo 16:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Particularly common mistakes include the different languages/spellings used for various races.

Does this mean we should be attempting to provide the English name of a race or the local one? For example, is it better to refer to the Tour of Spain or the Vuelta a España? Mk3severo 16:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd prefer local spellings for latin based scripts, especially for the Vuelta and the Giro.--Per Abrahamsen 17:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

In that case I'll change the few with English names (especially as they have sister pages in the local language), including Championship of Zürich, Tour of Basque Country, Tour of Flanders and Tour of Lombardy. Mk3severo 18:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I personally prefer the local spellings, especially for the Grand Tours. However it seems to go slightly against WP:NC for non-English names when Tour of... are available. Still, English-language news sources use Giro and Vuelta names from what I've seen. --Christopherlin 19:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it's quite a difficult one, given WP:NC(UE). There seems to be two camps in the UK media (I don't know about everywhere else) - that of the mainstream media which takes the lowest common denominator and calls everything Tour of... and that of cycling media which uses many more local names. As you say, the TdF, Giro and Vuelta are often referred to in local names. Many races are a bit more borderline and don't seem to have one clear 'winner'. I think whatever is finally decided, the key is to refer to the race with the same name across Wikipedia: allow the debate of the name to happen on the talk page and to avoid piping links to it for personal preference. Some races had up to 8 different variations! Mk3severo 20:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to use the local names for the races, since English-language media use them plenty, but can we pretty please move maillot jaune to yellow jersey, merge green jersey into maillot vert and then move it back, and the same for white jersey and maillot blanc? The only one that's even arguable is maillot jaune, and I would contend that English-language media use that simply for a local color to their coverage. They use yellow jersey at least as frequently. I don't think I've ever seen or heard maillot vert or maillot blanc in English-language media, and I think they're almost certainly less well-known terms than maillot jaune. This is the English Wikipedia, last I checked. Nosleep1234 09:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I still think that all should be done, but I can now see why it won't happen. A consideration for this issue is WP:ENGLISH, which says that English-language names should almost always be used. However, for the Grand Tours at least, the local name is very commonly used in English-language media. Something like Ronde van Vlaanderen probably should be at Tour of Flanders, but there's really no reason that Giro d'Italia should be at Tour of Italy. Nosleep1234 15:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I have been editing and adding to existing Bio articles on pro cyclists and am becoming increasing frustrated and confused at the lack of a standard layout for each article.

Could I please open it for discussion here, what is everyones opinion of how a bio article should look? In particular the format of the riders major victories, career highlights, palmares or record of achievements.

Iggi 13:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I've also been thinking about this lately. The only strict reference is Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies), which gives clear guidance for writing an opening paragraph and ideas afterwards. Many of our opening paragraphs contain too much detail: it should not, for example, include where they were born. It should note notability (which, in this case, is being a professional cyclist).

The number of sections is always going to depend upon how successful and high-profile the rider is. Broadly, I think we should be including a little about where they are from; a main career section, possibly split into smaller sections; Palmarès, to include victories and possibly other top five or top ten placings (dependent upon the quality of the race - finishing tenth in the GC of the Tour de France is worth mentioning: finishing tenth in the Escalada Montjuic is not); References and; External links (to include the rider's profile on their team website and their personal website if applicable. In addition there are the following templates: the Cyclist infobox, which can be used for any cyclist irrespective of discipline, the team infobox naming all the riders on a specific team and the Olympic medal box, which also notes World Championship medals. In terms of photos, a front view of the rider would be good in the infobox, with action shots in the article itself.

Yet, we should be wary to not make this too complex. There are many cyclists that do not yet have biographies (and are notable), so we shouldn't make it too complex that a new user would be put off. What to include in the Palmarès is also an issue, since for active riders, once you have gone into detail, the expectation is to maintain such detail. Likewise, listing all of Eddy Merckx's or Seán Kelly's victories would take several pages in themselves

Mk3severo 13:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have posted on Karl Menzies, and Antonio Cruz, someone please edit these towards the proper format. Bike123 00:55, March 29, 2007