Wikipedia talk:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 2012

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Can anyone help out with a technical Welsh grammar question over at Talk:Singulative number (bascially, do collective nouns - the ones that form a "singulative" by adding an ending - take the same verb forms as plural nouns?) Thanks, --Kotniski (talk) 14:43, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I've just been over to Talk:Singulative number in an effort to try and understand this Grammar question, and our Polish friend would appear to have obtained his answers. It's worth loking at, although I cannot claim a full understanding to what he was asking here. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 13:25, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I show a posting below that I received last night on my talk page, together with my reply, and the user's response:

Bread of Heaven

I enjoyed your collection of flags at the top of this page.

I know (the English version of) the hymn that includes the line "bread of heaven". In fact, it is right up at the top of my favorites. But please tell me what is the specific connection between Welsh rugby and "bread of heaven".

Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 22:35, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Cwm Rhondda is a very well known Welsh hymn tune. First performed in 1907. Cwm Rhondda translates as "the Rondda Valley" in English, and more often than not, sung to the words: Guide me, O thou great Redeemer. Wales rugby union supporters adopted it years ago, although the reason is not understood, apart from the fact that it is an inspiring song which everyone knew (Sundays in chapel) and could keep repeating, and repeating... I think it splendid.

It was sung at the funerals of both Princess Diana and the Queen Mother, and at the wedding of Prince William and Catherine Middleton.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 23:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

It is indeed splendid, both tune and words. The version I learned (in the United Church of Canada) began Guide me, O thou great Jehovah.

The part of the story I did not know was its adoption by the Rugby union. A great anthem, known to everyone in Wales. I guess it is a natural. Wanderer57 (talk) 03:37, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I am wondering if you would be kind enough to add below any knowledge you may have on this topic.

Many thanks for your time.

With kindest regards,

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk)

In the Welsh version the line is simply "Hollalluog, Hollalluog" - which translates as "almighty" or (allowing it to scan correctly) "O Almighty! O Almighty!"" - see Cwm Rhondda. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:41, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Gareth, I think I've confused you into thinking I know something about Wales ... I'm just supporting MonmouthpediA for Wikimedia UK. I can't claim any expertise - Suggest you ask your question on the talk page of Monmouthpedia or Wikiproject Wales. Do come back at me if Ive misunderstood. Victuallers (talk) 16:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

...or here (where many interested editors can read it), or on the article talk page. Adding the same request to lots of editors' talk pages is a bit ... unconventional? Personally, the fact that I happen to live in Wales doesn't make me an expert on - or especially interested in - Welsh hymns. Sorry. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:25, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Here's an essay on the hymn. But not sure it actually explains anything! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:56, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

The singing of Hymns at rugby matches in Wales is almost as old as the sport in Wales itself. One of the best documented matches in 'early' rugby history is the 1905 classic between Wales and New Zealand. Before the match the crowds were entertained by a brass band, I'm assuming military as they played marches. Before kick off the crowds sung 'Boys of the Old Brigade', 'Ton-y-botel' and 'Lead Kindly Light'. The game is best remembered though for the first ever singing of a national anthem before a sporting event when the crowd sung 'Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' along with Teddy Morgan. As early as the 1970s there was a public bemoaning of the hymn singing traditions at national matches, replaced with the songs of Max Boyce and howls of 'Waaay-uls'. Personally I think that the song was adopted along with many others, but being in English, memorable and catchy, it stuck. If you want a reference that acknowledges it is seen as a Welsh rugby anthem you could use this here. Otherwise I will think you will find it difficult to find a verifiable reference to why Cwm Rhondda has been embraced. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Did some work on the article but don't know much about the rugby connection. I think it's just coincidental - a particularly rousing song suitable for crowd participation. Deb (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Unlike Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau. I assume it has always been sung in English at international matches? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah yes, that might have something to do with it. Deb (talk) 12:43, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you all for the information. I have a much better understanding now. Wanderer57 (talk) 18:09, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hello Wanderer57, Glad to have been involved. All the best, Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:19, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• Thank you to all that replied here, on your talk page, and on my talk page. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 19:01, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Would somebody give the English translation, please?

• Cyfarchion, received today – from a Norwegian.

-- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:57, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

it means Greetings. Daicaregos (talk) 12:00, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

I've been using Google Translate recently to translate stuff from a German website. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good, even with Welsh. Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 12:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• Thank you! Dai for the prompt (3 mins.) translation. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
• Thank you! Hogyn Lleol for the good advice. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)