- Marek Kukula (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
Had I thought for a second that Wikipedia editors would subsequently be so determined to hold to their prejudices regarding tabloid reports, even in a case like this, where there is literally no reason why anyone would ever suspect these reports to be false (bar their deeply held prejudice), then I most definitely would have said the better outcome was for Wikipedia to choose not to be the official host of a ridiculously incomplete alleged biography. I suspect others would have too. This man's career is over. He was convicted of a serious crime. A crime that was majorly pertinent to his career. Pretending it never happened, is unconscionable, especially if the outcome is ironically to ensure that reading tabloid reports with loaded terms like vile and disturbing, now becomes necessary companion reading alongside this Wikipedia page. It didn't need to be that way, there is a low risk, high reward way forward, but to a man, Wikipedia editors refused to see reason. So be it. Their actions must have consequences. Wikipedia does not get to pretend here, that their supposed act of responsibility, hasn't led to a hugely irresponsible outcome. They have made a choice, on the presumption the original decision to keep it, was correct. There is a less damaging choice, once the presumption that the original decision was wrong, due to a lack of foresight, is seen. Simply delete it. I must share blame, I did not foresee this intransigence. I assumed Wikipedia editors were rational, and well able to deal with complicated scenarios where issues must be carefully balanced, with prejudices left at the door. Evidently they are not. There is a serious child safety issue here with regard to Wikipedia hosting an incomplete biography, one that I suspect was not properly foreseen in the debate. I hesitate to specifically lay it out, because it would rather unfairly suggest things about this man, who by those tabloid accounts, may well now be completely contrite and a model prisoner and indeed citizen, going forward. But to those with sufficient life experience, who read all the available material, the reliable Wikipedia biography and its unreliable companion reading, you should be able to see what the risk is, going forward. It might seem small, almost inconceivable, but do you want to take that chance? I don't. Deal me out. I officially disavow any part I might have had in any such future tragedy. I am not buying the claims that this risk is adequately covered by the disclaimer either, and I suspect others won't be too, especially when the overall reason given for this ridiculous prejudice holding sway here, is making people think Wikipedia really is all about being responsible. Children are certainly ill equipped to appreciate what most adults probably don't even realise is the horrific reality of that disclaimer, in scenarios like this. Which may well even be unique. Who knows. I doubt Wikipedia is keeping score. To sum up, it is the height of irresponsibility, to put a prejudice against tabloids, above the interests of child safety. If this page is deleted, who is harmed? Nobody that I can see. Do no harm. Mr Happy Shoes (talk) 18:09, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Speedy Close as a bad-faith purely disruptive nomination that is yet another attempt at forum shopping by this editor. There have already been threads at RSN, BPLN, AN, the article talk page and two user talk pages (1 2) where this editor has been repeatedly told that we cannot source information on crimes to unreliable tabloid journalism. Nothing in this deletion review is remotely relevant to the decision to keep the page - the page was kept on the basis that there were multiple reliable sources found that discussed this person in depth and in detail, the fact that there are no reliable sources discussing the content this editor wishes to include has no bearing on that. Wikipedia does not exist to right great wrongs, and it is not our job to publish criminal allegations sourced to rubbish because "it is in the public interest". 192.76.8.73 (talk) 18:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "you'll have to wait until it's been reported in mainstream media" is a direct quote from "Right Great Wrongs". You should not try to so blatantly deceive people, while trying to claim other people are engaging in bad faith. It is not Wikipedia's job to pretend things haven't happened just because their editor's naked prejudice teaches them they can't have happened, they mustn't have happened, otherwise everything they hold dear about Wikipedia must be wrong. If Wikipedia can't accurately judge when a tabloid story is more likely to be true than false given a particular set of circumstances, then what is anybody even doing here pretending that they know anything at all about how the mainstream media works? I bet there are a good few people here who perhaps genuinely believe the broadhseets never make mistakes, which is about as believable as the idea the tabloids only ever write about celebrity gossip. Dogma is useless. Prejudice is useless. If of course, the goal is to write an encyclopedia. It is actually your job to do more than separate sources into good and bad, copy the good, and reject the bad, and divorce yourself from any and all consequence of such an unreal approach to the messy business of reality. You would know that, if you had read the relevant policies. You're not going to be able to blame this one on the BBC. Definitely not their job to tell you when you have screwed the pooch. Mr Happy Shoes (talk) 19:18, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment This particular request isn't in the purview of DRV, per the current "DRV is not" #1, #6, maybe #8. Suggest an RfC on the matter if it continues to be contentious. SportingFlyer T·C 18:50, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I was told by Missvain to request a deletion review. It seems to fit the "new circumstances" clause. Happy to put it up for deletion again, making my changed views known, if people think that is the more proper way forward. Mr Happy Shoes (talk) 19:21, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The nominator has been blocked as a sockpuppet. I don't know what policy says, but it seems to me that this discussion should be speedily closed as there were no supporting statements from others. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:11, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree. The consensus to keep the article was pretty hefty, even though I initially opposed it. I actually had high hopes for the OP, whose efforts to track down sources and improve the article formed the proverbial straw for me, but a sock is a sock, and there's nothing to do but launder it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:20, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a blocked sock, so I don't see the need to proceed here given that the request could simply be reverted at will. However, it does appear that at least one reputable law firm includes Kukula on a list of convicted sex offenders (though it cites The Sun), though this would best be argued on the talk page itself rather than here. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 04:32, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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