Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 18

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April 18

Category:Ministry of International Trade and Industry (Malaysia)

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 26#Category:Ministry of International Trade and Industry (Malaysia)

Category:Mackinnons

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:47, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Mackinnons (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (1C)
    • Propose deleting Category:Mackinnons players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (1P)
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary level of categorization for an article for one player already in a players' subcategory scheme. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 19:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. Also, delete its subcategory Category:Mackinnons players for the same reason. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:16, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete both — tagged per Joseph2302, otherwise it would be orphaned.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:00, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional dolphins

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Fiction about dolphins. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Fictional dolphins (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Category is intended for characters, but is populated solely with media featuring dolphins, which should probably be its own category. (Oinkers42) (talk) 16:00, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 19:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename and merge smallcats as nominated. The contents are for navigating between encyclopedic content, not for administering the WikiProject, so the nomination correctly removes that prefix. No specific opposition has been made to the details of the nomination, so it should belatedly go ahead now. – Fayenatic London 18:16, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I've created Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates before realizing that Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates exists. Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates is specific to the WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. It contains templates such as WikiProject banner, badge, invite, and task box. Most of the subcategories in the tree of Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates include unnecessary prefix "WikiProject" – the categories are used for templates used in the article namespace.

I propose to reorganize these categories under the Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates and without the "WikiProject" prefix. See also additional clarifications:

—⁠andrybak (talk) 19:29, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've found one more infobox for Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates – {{Infobox LDS in Country}}. —⁠andrybak (talk) 19:49, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment The one problem I see with this suggestion is that we are talking about 3 different and distinct definitions.Mormonsim refers to the commonly shared beliefs of all religious sects that trace their origins back to the Church originally organized in New York in 1830 by oseph Smith. The Latter Day Saint movement refers to all sects tracing their origins back to the church started by Joseph Smith, with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Community of Christ being the largest denominations within that movement. So switching all references of the Latter Day Saint movement to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints overlooks the fact that the Latter Day Saint movment has more denominations than just that largest sect. J. That being said, anything relating to the largest sect of that movement following the 1844 succession crisis can and should be classified as relating specifcally to that church. ust wanted to mention that here Jgstokes (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Jgstokes, could you please be more specific what adjustment to the nomination you would like to see? As far as I understand them, the 3 different and distinct definitions you're talking about are already accounted for in the category tree:
    As far as I can tell, right now Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates is specific to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, aka LDS Church. That's why the temple category, and the temple navboxes category are getting the same treatment – all the templates in them are about LDS Church.
    Do you mean that the "sects" category should be renamed to Category:LDS church sects templates and categorized under Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates? —⁠andrybak (talk) 00:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Establishments in Massachusetts by year

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge and delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:48, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:1622 in Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1623 in Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1624 in Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1625 in Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1626 in Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1628 in Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT (1-3 articles per year). Merge to decade establishments in Massachusetts and year establishments in the Thirteen Colonies. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • While we are here, it probably is better to specifiy the correct entity in the category names - Massachusetts Bay Colony, Plymouth Colony or Province of Massachusetts Bay as Massachusetts is definitely not the correct one. This is also causing errors in the category links as can be seen for example with Category:1622 establishments in Massachusetts which links to Province of Massachusetts Bay which per the article was established in 1691 so 69 years later. Gonnym (talk) 17:06, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is questionable because it only concerns one decade of an entire tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:41, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for Now I share Gonnym's and Marcocapelle's and the target category names should be cleaned up and more categories should eventually be nominated. But these changes address WP:SMALLCAT and incrementally improve the encyclopedia from where it is now. - RevelationDirect (talk) 04:20, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:54, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2009 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:2009 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2011 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2015 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:CONCACAF U-20 Championship players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:South American Youth Championship players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2013 South American Youth Championship players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2015 South American Youth Football Championship players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:WAFU Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Copa Centroamericana players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1993 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1995 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:1997 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2001 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2003 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2005 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2007 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2009 UNCAF Nations Cup players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2011 Copa Centroamericana players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2013 Copa Centroamericana players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2014 Copa Centroamericana players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:2017 Copa Centroamericana players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Copa Centroamericana-winning players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Categories for players at international tournaments are typically only created for major international tournaments, such as Category:FIFA World Cup players and Category:UEFA European Championship players. The following categories are all either youth tournaments or the championships of subregional confederations. This is not a high enough level to warrant a category, and would cause way too many categories to be used on player articles if one was created for every youth/regional championship. S.A. Julio (talk) 17:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. S.A. Julio (talk) 18:01, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. WP:NONDEF. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as WP:NONDEF, as these aren't the "major enough" international tournaments listed in the nom, which are likely the only defining ones. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no need for these categories for youth tournaments. GiantSnowman 11:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Fires in Oceania by year

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:50, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
more categories nominated
Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, mostly 1-3 article categories.
  • Merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per WP:SMALLCAT, This is similar to lots of other 19th century disaster smallcats that have been upmerged recently. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Minecraft controversies

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Minecraft controversies (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Has only redirects and one page that falls under WP:NONDEF. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Civil servants by ethnicity

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Civil servants by ethnicity (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: intersection of civil servant and nationality and descent is not defining.
  • Note: of all the world, only Sri Lankans are in this tree.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No, all of them are already appropriately parented. I was checking as you asked.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:04, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am not sure I understand. Isn't it, e.g., Category:Sinhalese civil servants that should be merged in the first place as that is the type of categories violating WP:OCEGRS? Marcocapelle (talk) 09:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      In this case I was merely removing this Sri Lanka only parent itself, treating Burgher and Sinhalese as international'ish diasporas (like Jews). It would be painful for some of these country-ethnicity subcategories. For example, Category:Sri Lankan Chetties are mostly in Category:Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation, which is a container, so upmerge isn't allowed to it. Although Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants has only 1 article, he is the founder of the entire Sri Lankan civil service. So there's no good way to handle without deleting the whole Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation tree and upmerging 2 or 3 levels. That might be a good thing eventually, as many are small, and there are still politicians and sportspeople that have eluded our previous deletions. But that's a discussion for another day.
      William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • It isn't that complicated, e.g. Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants should be merged to Category:Sri Lankan civil servants and Category:Sri Lankan Chetties. I have difficulty understanding what we win by deleting the container categories, it would merely hinder us in finding categories to be nominated in the future. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        Agreed in principle. But then some pedant will come along and say, "you cannot do just these 5 civil servant subcategories, there's a well defined tree for occupations." As happened several years ago for related nominations. Step by step. Establish that this combination isn't defining. Then approach each sub-tree with precedent in hand.
        William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        • ... in which case I was the nominator. Ok, you convinced me, delete, trivial intersection between occupation and ethnicity. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as per WP:OCEGRS. Note: if kept, this should probably be renamed to Category:Sri Lankan civil servants by ethnicity, as the category is only about SL. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:11, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not every occupation category needs to be divided among ethnic lines, even (especially) for Sri Lanka. Place Clichy (talk) 12:46, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. I find the nominator's approach to these category trees to be problematic as well, but the issue at hand is clear and can be handled separately. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
    • Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan actors by ethnicity (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (5 C)
      • Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan actresses by ethnicity (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (3 C)
    • Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan architects by ethnic or national origin (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (3 C)
    • Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan politicians by ethnic or national origin (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (6 C)
Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:51, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not every occupation category needs to be divided among ethnic lines, even (especially) for Sri Lanka. Hopefully the child categories will be nominated at some point. Place Clichy (talk) 12:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Iraqi people by ethnic or national origin and occupation

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:27, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Iraqi people by ethnic or national origin and occupation (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
    • Propose deleting Category:Iraqi writers by ethnic or national origin (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Politicians by Imperial Chinese dynasty

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Government officials by Imperial Chinese dynasty. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename and re-parent, the tree mainly contains bureaucrats and military personnel. Note that many articles also wrongly use the word politician. If this goes ahead I will nominate the subcategories too. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support — although it seems an awful mismash of barely related articles, these are not politicians in the modern sense.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Duchy of Carniola

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Reverse merge Timrollpickering (talk) 18:31, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with just the main article and a subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The target is a loose geographic region that is not identical with the borders of the Duchy. The target has sub-cat "establishments": how can regions establish things? If anything, a reverse merge is indicated. Laurel Lodged (talk) 06:58, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reverse merging is fine too. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reverse rename (tagged) — to preserve history. The former is a better name, but the latter has all the content, as it is the older category.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:25, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ute tribe

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Ute (ethnic group). ✗plicit 06:14, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Ute tribe to Category:Ute
Nominator's rationale: Per previous renaming discussions here and here, "tribe" should be dropped from categories related to Native American peoples wherever possible. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 05:10, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Ute is a disambiguation page. Gonnym (talk) 09:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion to overcome the objection: Category:Ute (Native American). Marcocapelle (talk) 13:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no issue with this. Gonnym (talk) 17:08, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I would be okay with this. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 14:11, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The challenge is that the main article is Ute people and that naming is, quite understandibly, used for the biography subcategory. Would lean toward Category:Ute since the ambiguity would be blunted as I don't think readers/editors would expect the other meanings to have a category, but there's not perfect solution to this one. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:00, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename as nominated — Another problem is that there is another Ute related tribe: Ute Mountain Ute Tribe. Also various "Utes" (another disambigation): San Pitch Utes, White River Utes. Aussies calling sport-utility vehicles "ute" and "utes" isn't the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:50, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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