Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yossi Lazaroff

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. youngamerican (wtf?) 18:49, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yossi Lazaroff

Yossi Lazaroff (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Unnotable person who does not meet the WP:BIO requirements. Single Rabbi in a small town. Was CSDed under G7 but creator immediately recreated in its current state claiming it was "bad manners" to delete the article. Attempts to find notability about this person failed and despite creators claim that the person is notable, he hasn't provided any actual evidence. Collectonian (talk) 04:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. Articles fails to assert notability about the individual. Mh29255 (talk) 04:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There was never an opportunity to write this article. It is a notable and well sourced subject. Bhaktivinode (talk) 04:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment The above "Keep" comment comes from the article's creator. Accounting4Taste:talk 04:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

deletion/Texas Friends of Chabad Lubavitch]] and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jewish Aggies that are essentially WP:VANITY pages. Wikipedia is NOT Chabad.org ! IZAK (talk) 11:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Three pages of Google hits reveal nothing about this individual beyond his name and job title. This information would be much better organized under the heading of an article about the "Chabad Centre", since there is some tenuous notability attached via news items to that topic but none to the individual; this seems to be a WP:COATRACK for information about Jewish activities at the university in question. This article doesn't meet WP:BIO, there is no assertion of notability, and I can't find any information that would add notability. Accounting4Taste:talk 04:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. No real evidence for notability. Religious leaders are generally notable only if they are well-known nationwide (like Pat Robertson or Joel Osteen). Your pastor, imam, or rabbi is generally not notable enough for Wikipedia. Life, Liberty, Property (talk) 04:18, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but renominate if not improved after an additional week. It's a topic on which it is relatively difficult to gather material--much in this field is not in Google. Asserting that someone is the head of a Chabad house at one of the very largest universities is at least a claim to notability, so it was never a valid A7, though it will not amount to notability if something considerably more to the point is found than the material presently in the article. But in any case I think it totally wrong to nominate an article for deletion because of lack of notability after less than two hours after it was started when it is clearly still being actively worked on. This would be true even if the ed were a newbie, but he's an experienced contributor with a history of building sustainable articles. (some of his earlier ones were deleted at AfD, but he seems to be learning, so i assume he will get this one right. If not, there's time to delete it later. We have WP:PROD for cases like this. It is in fact impolite to force articles onto AfD to get the improved when they are clearly being worked on. perhaps the previous two people to comment did not look at the timing on the edit history.DGG (talk) 04:20, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Confusion: Wait a minute, the article appears to be a copied article from another wikipedia article (Judging by the [1]s and [2]s), but which one? If that one's alright, this one could redirect there, but if not, delete. J-ſtanContribsUser page 04:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's from the creator copy/pasting the deleted article back in as text.Collectonian (talk) 04:25, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question. Maybe I'm missing something. Is this person only notable as a Chabad house rabbi? No offense, but rabbis are not notable simply because they head a temple, synagogue, shul or Chabad house. Similarly, profs are not notable simply because they chair a department etc. Perhaps he's significant for some reasons that have been covered by mainstream press? HG | Talk 04:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
we have yet to see, for the article is not finished. This is the Chabad house at what I think is the largest US university. The person appointed to this will is more than a local rabbi--such a position is usually given to someone of some distinction. similarly, the person appointed to chair a department, is usually notable also. The religious press outside the university is good enough in any case for notability--we do not delete everything not in the NYTimes. Incidentally, most university people are away this week. let's slow down a little.DGG (talk) 04:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't get it. Looking at data from reliable sources, it seems highly unlikely that he's notable. He has zero hits on Nexis. He has 32 hits on Google, much smaller than many non-notable rabbis and average Joes/Janes. HG | Talk 04:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment if I had time I would add information from sources such as [1] but, as usual under the "underconstruction" label for articles one would be given a few days, at least two, to write an article. So here it is premature. Bhaktivinode (talk) 04:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rebuttal. You already linked to the local Jewish paper above (which mentioned him incidentally, the article isn't even writing about him). Were every rabbi (or Jew) notable for having been mentioned a few times in the local Jewish press, then we'd be closer to a phone book than an encyclopedia. Ok, you don't need the NYT, but you do not better sources and a reason for notability. Anyway, an AfD should give folks enough time to identify some significant press or scholarly coverage of this person and his significance. HG | Talk 04:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep the Texas Jewish Post and the Jewish Herald-Voice are enough. Culturalrevival (talk) 04:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Notability is not a deletion criterion --Ryan Delaney talk 05:19, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • What does that mean? Articles are always being deleted because it's agreed that they're not notable. Nyttend (talk) 05:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:BIO#Basic criteria = notability. HG | Talk 18:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I voted "keep" because Yossi Lazaroff is a notable religous leader. Among his leadership acitivites mentioned earlier, he is the head of the Student Unity Torah initiative at Chabad [2] and leads the Shabbat services at Chabad House at Texas A&M. [3]. These are two reliable sources. Bhaktivinode (talk) 06:12, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:BIO. Claiming that the subject is notable because he is the rabbi of a single Chabad House at a single university would basically mean that any clergyperson who serves a particular religious community at a university would be notable. I realize that some editors would support opening up the notability criteria to allow that, but I don't think that there is a consensus for that and I think that the current notability criteria should be maintained. I also don't see anything about the subject being the head of the Student Unity Torah initiative nationally or worldwide, just that he is the local organizer. The sources cited in this AfD and in the prior version of the article do not discuss the subject himself in depth; they just mention or quote him. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 07:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete because Chabad has thousands of such rabbis, see Shluchim or Shlichim today, and very, very few are notable in and of themselves. What is notabale is that the movement's late leader Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson (1902 -1994) was able to educate and inspire so many of his young rabbinical students to take up posts in far off places and lands. These rabbis are basically religious functionaries and missionaries and they actively and assiduously seek their own self-promotion in the media and at political events, like blessing the opening of a local legislature, or lighting a huge menorah in public, and then getting that noted in a media outlet. Chabad has its own plentiful websites and as I have said many times, Wikipedia is NOT Chabad.org, and Wikipedia should resist a stealth invasion in this manner, (see the bloated {{Chabad sidebar}} template that exhibits "an ambition that does oe'r leap itself" -- to quote Shakespeare in Macbeth.) This article is part of a trend that violates Wikipedia is not a soapbox; Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files; Wikipedia is not a blog, webspace provider, social networking, or memorial site; and just plain Wikipedia is not your web host of which, and for which, Chabad has plenty of. Perhaps it is time to create a list or policy about this, such as Wikipedia:Chabad and its rabbis. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 10:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. IZAK (talk) 10:15, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep A Rabbi is a leader amongst the Jews - Many Rabbis who are written in our open and free encyclopedia have no mention at all in the general non-Jewish media, this subject does indeed have, so i do not understand why somebody can dare to claim he isn't notable enough for this wikipedia. i see here a double standard when it comes to Rabbis of Chabad we shouldn't be stricter than all other rabbis--יודל (talk) 11:12, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please read WP:BIO#Additional criteria, esp section on Professionals. Whether from Chabad or any other stream of Judaism, no person is notable merely by virtue of being a Rabbi. HG | Talk 18:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I cleaned up the refs section so all could easily see what refs are being used. From that I still don't see enough to establish notability. AliveFreeHappy (talk) 11:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete two of the of sources are from Chabad, and are not reliable sources and do not establish outside notabliitiy. The other two references are merely mentions in local papers. All clergymen are occasionally mentioned in passing in local newspapers, and this one is particualrly non-notable. If Chabad rabbis (cultish self-promoters) get wind of the fact that could try to put themselves up on this site we will be up to our eyeballs in effluence within a week, with 3,000 proffesional nobody self promoters all trying to get their names up here. Lobojo (talk) 12:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment The above makes me wonder how many votes here are just anti-Chabad, regardless, that seems to be a theme at least in the vote above. The above voter also describes Chabad rabbis as "(cultish self-promoters)" I would appreciate it if the anti-Chabad comments and arguements could be kept out of this discussion. This is not the place to profane religious leaders of any kind!!! Bhaktivinode (talk) 13:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete, I'm not Jewish, but I do not see how this fellow is anymore notable than, say, a Catholic parish priest. You can find small references to almost any priest in local Catholic newspapers, but that doesn't make them notable, and for the same reason I don't believe the subject of this article is notable. Lankiveil (talk) 12:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC).[reply]
  • Weak Delete I was starting to compose the response in my mind, but then I saw that Lankiveil had already written pretty much exactly what I was going to say. ΨνPsinu 15:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Reliable sources need to be about subject, not casually mentioning subject. If a cogent bio cannot be written from these sources, then the subject's bio is not verifiable. This thing is not even a bio, anyway. Arbeit Sockenpuppe (talk) 16:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge into Chabad of Brazos Valley, if not notable. Culturalrevival (talk) 16:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge important info from Texas Friends of Chabad Lubavitch, Chabad of Brazos Valley, Yossi Lazaroff, and Jewish Aggies into Texas A&M University#Student life. Don't worry about that section getting to big. All these articles are stubs that basically have the same info. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 16:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article is develping, and will continue to be improved. Bhaktivinode (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The references do not indicate Notability. Springnuts (talk) 22:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. -- the wub "?!" 23:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge into Chabad of Brazos Valley or Texas A&M University#Student life, see Brewcrewer above. Culturalrevival (talk) 23:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:BIO and Arbeit Sockenpuppe. Jayjg (talk) 02:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete or Merge into Texas A&M University#Student life. Although there are multiple reliable sources and hence an inclusionist argument for a keep could be made, these sources appear to cover the individual only weakly and don't meet any of the criteria for WP:BIO. They are primarily on the Chabad organization, and they describe standard activities a Jewish rabbi assigned to a university ould typically do -- a friday night dinner, a study session, etc. The most arguably notable event seems to be presenting a Hanukah menorah to the Governor of Texas. However, even this seems to be a relatively routine clerical activity which does not seem to be particularly notable. I don't have figures, but I would suspect that given the role churches and clergy have in politics in the United States, many clergy made a presentation to or participated in a public religious ceremony with a government official at least some point in their career. If the presentation was an historic event for Texas I could be persuaded otherwise. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 04:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, as much as I usually tend toward inclusion, current WP:BIO standards do not support the inclusion every local rabbi. --MPerel 18:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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