Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Viswabrahmin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirected Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Viswabrahmin

Hindu (?) deity of unclear notability. The article focuses on that deity's family tree. Delete. Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 10:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unless independent refs are provided (and the horrible page-widening is fixed!) -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 18:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If ref provided ,add the page to vishwakarmas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.182.134 (talk) 13:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. As far as I can make out this seems to be an article about a caste in South Asia whose members consider themselves to be descendants of Viswakarma, so the genealogy is relevant to the subject. There are some sources at Google Books. I'm sure that this is a notable subject which should have an article, but this one is in a very sorry state at the moment, even after I fixed the worst of the formatting problems. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The article reveal some appocripfas in hinduisam. Viswabrahmins had been always raising phylosophical and rational rebellion against convensional brahmanisam in India.The ancient social system denied a suitableforum to reveal these parallel stream of brahmanism.It should be there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.187.91 (talk) 14:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete. Unsourced (external link leads to a social site, not a reliable source), not Wikified, orphaned, original research, written as an essay (almost sermon-like), and... if this is an appropriate subject for a well-sourced, NPOV Wikipedia article, it will need to be scraped clean to start anew. Oh... Orphaned articles are usually orphaned for a very good reason. B.Wind (talk) 02:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 09:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hinduism-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 13:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~, very weakly, and entirely without prejudice. This is a borderline case, but this text is a bit too daunting to edit into a serviceable article. Google Scholar yields 12 hits, which is not inconsiderable; but the articles themselves would appear to be about an ethnic group, not a deity. Regular Google brings forth mostly Hindu marriage bureaus. (??) I'd say all deities are notable per se, at least if someone didn't just make them up yesterday. So are most ethnic groups or Hindu castes. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 13:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect, somewhere: see below. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 00:43, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect Viswabrahmin to Vishwakarmas, which is a much better developed article on the caste (there is no servicable content in the article being AFD'ed). We already have two articles on the related deity: Vishvakarman and Viswakarma, which should be merged. Note that the the same term can refer to the caste or the deity and to make matters more confusing, there are several possible spelling variants, with the sw being replaceable by shw, sv, shv and brahmin being replaceable by brahma, brahman, karma, karmas, karman ... and of course we can add "Lord" or Shri" or "Sri" to the deity's name! No wonder we have all this mess. Sigh. Abecedare (talk) 20:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Should the redirect go there, or to Vishvakarman, which seems to actually be about the deity this is trying to describe? - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 00:43, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggested the Vishwakarmas (i.e., the caste) page because all the Google book hits seem to use the term for the community and because the anglicized brahmin is usually used to refer to a varna, rather than the universal entity brahman. Anyway, I have added "otheruses" tags to the two pages so that the readers can easily find the article they are interested in. Abecedare (talk) 01:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. I didn't spot the Vishwakarmas article. We always seem to get this problem of multiple overlapping articles about South Asian castes. It would be great if some people with knowledge of the subject and a commitment to NPOV editing could get a grip on these, because I would love to be able to get an idea of what this whole subject is about rather than try to see through the POV fog. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.