Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steven Slater

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.

I have not even tried to count the number of "keeps" and "deletes" in this discussion. It appears to be roughly even, perhaps with slightly more keeps. But given that (a) consensus is not a vote; and (b) this debate has been unduly affected by a large number of poorly reasoned "votes", counting is not helpful.

Consensus is particularly not a vote when there are policies (as opposed to inclusion guidelines) that affect the discussion. This is the case here. WP:BLP1E is part of our biographies of living persons policy. WP:NOTNEWS is also a policy that goes to the fundamentals of what the project is, by defining what it is not. These policies were raised consistently by those who argued to delete the article such that there was one clear reason to delete that underpinned just about all of the delete !votes. The arguments were cogent and persuasive.

On the keep side, various arguments for retention were used. First, it was argued that there was sufficient coverage in reliable sources. Those arguments need to be given less weight because they fail to recognise that notability-based reasons for inclusion are subject to overriding policies like BLP1E and NOTNEWS. Second, analogies were drawn to other articles that had been kept. These opinions also have to be given less weight: for every "similar" keep there have been notable "similar" deletes. Every article is different. That's why we have AfD.

The more compelling keep arguments were those that attempted to show that the article surmounted BLP1E and NOTNEWS, thus directly addressing the core concern of the delete !voters. There were two strands here. Early in the debate, some argued that Slater would remain significant over time. Clearly, that crystal balling should be given little weight. The second strand, later in the debate, was that the coverage of the incident surpassed BLP1E. Ultimately, I don't think this argument was made with sufficient strength, or had sufficient support, to stand in the way of the policy-based consensus to delete the article. The arguments to keep struggled to get beyond the assertion that "massive amounts of news coverage" gets an article past BLP1E.

Accordingly, there was one core policy-based reason to delete against fairly scattered arguments to keep of varying natures and (often low) weight. When viewed objectively, the consensus in the debate - based on an analysis of the arguments and applicable policies as opposed to headcounting - was to delete. And I stress the word objective: I have no problem with the article personally, but when assessing the strength of the arguments here objectively, the result seems clear.

I recognise this will be a close that will disappoint people. Anyone who wishes to appeal this decision to deletion review can feel free to bypass questioning the close on my talk page. Thank you to everyone for an interesting discussion. Mkativerata (talk) 03:35, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Steven Slater

Steven Slater (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Though the article contains references, it is a classic case of WP:BLP1E and I therefore propose that it be deleted. Favonian (talk) 09:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation for new folks: "WP:BLP1E" is a shorthand link to guidance on "Subjects notable only for one event" in our Biographies of living persons policy --A. B. (talk • contribs) 17:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Favonian. Definite case of WP:BLP1E. CarrotMan (talk) 10:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - as the gentleman is not yet notable enough for an encyclopedia. However, he may become notable. - Richard Cavell (talk) 10:19, 10 August 2010 (UTC) See below[reply]
  • Delete textbook WP:BLP1E GainLine ♠ ♥ 10:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As more "facts" and speculation are added to the article, it is begining to read more and more negatively, another reason for deletion GainLine ♠ ♥ 12:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Negative in what way? Can you be more specific? If the article stays, it would be a non-neutral point of view to only write about the positive aspects and ignore the negative aspects. –BMRR (talk) 16:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are two different versions of events, neither have been substantiated and are subject to speculation. Not an ideal situation for a BLP GainLine ♠ ♥
But the fact that Slater's version doesn't match up with the version given by some of the passengers is part of the fabric of the incident. Both versions are extensively sourced to reliable sources. I agree that it's not an ideal situation for a BLP, but can you explain why the article should be deleted rather than moved/renamed to a non-BLP article? –BMRR (talk) 18:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BLP1E, WP:RECENT, WP:NOTNEWS, WP:GRAPEVINE GainLine ♠ ♥ 20:12, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Changed to redirect at 12:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC), see below - Individuals who receive coverage for only one minor event are typically not sufficiently notable for their own article, per WP:BIO1E.  -- Lear's Fool 12:15, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete- as soon as possible, per WP:BLP1E.
  • Delete - couldn't believe there was an article on this guy (linked from Google news) orioneight (talk) 13:28, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. immediate application of WP:BLP1E is called for. patsw (talk) 13:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I added the appropriate merge tags on Steven Slater and Flight attendant. patsw (talk) 13:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I tried to speedy this, there seems to be fairly clear concensus to delete, can we get an early close? GainLine ♠ ♥ 14:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Hell no. What is the rush? AFD's should last the full period, to avoid drama at deletion review. Edison (talk) 20:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. per nom. Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:27, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLP1E could have been written with this article in mind. No notability whatsoever, the guy stormed out of work and happened to end up on the "And Finally..." segments. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 14:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, or merge with a general article based on the event. I don't think Wikipedia needs to keep an article based on whatever caught US media's TMZ-style-fantasy. This article is, at least not yet, not about a notable person that we would like to keep a permanent record of in an encyclopedia. His actions performed in a fit of anger, whether justified or not, may seem funny but do not warrant an encyclopedic entry. This has the potential to open floodgates of articles based on events like this. I hope we are not cowed down by the media frenzy on a mundane yet funny event and suspend our better judgment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pratyushnidhi (talk • contribs) 12:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep': This keep vote does not conform with current policy, but neither did Mr. Slater's kick-ass actions. At least let the AfD run the seven days until the brouhaha dies down.--Milowent • talkblp-r 14:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    This has to be my favourite AfD !vote ever.  -- Lear's Fool 15:36, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why, thank you :-) My vote may actually comply with policy now, because the news coverage of this guy is overwhelming, he has apparently touched a sensitive cord of the American psyche and its feeling about work. AP, New York Times, etc, etc.--Milowent • talkblp-r 12:31, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Or its just a silly season story in the 'and now for' segments at the end of news stories and just another internet joke (like that cop killer up north) that gets all the sados in a lather untill they move on to the latest dilletante fetish.Slatersteven (talk) 12:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, you're just worried about being confused with the guy. Much of history is "silly,", e.g., Mary Toft in 1726, Slater in 2010.--Milowent • talkblp-r 14:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snow delete per WP:BLP1E. Stifle (talk) 15:38, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • More snow. - Shoulda been speedied... Carrite (talk) 16:28, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: I declined the speedy nomination, as the article did not fit the very narrow conditions of WP:CSD#A7. Apart from that, I'm also in favor of a snow delete. Favonian (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge Agreed only notable for being a tit once in his life. Come on OK its a great name (and the initials are funny if you have a really twisted sence of humour, part apart from that the blokes a nobody.Slatersteven (talk) 16:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snow delete BLP1E. Sources only exist because it was funny. —fetch·comms 17:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Make this article a stub, or expand it. Don't delete it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moch770 (talk • contribs) 19:44, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete or put a short note about him into "Events of 2010" or another article about ... I don't know, flight attendant controversies or something. Because a year from now we'll be going "Stephen who?" --Bluejay Young (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A year from now when you're going "what was that flight attendant story about the guy who escaped the plane....?", you'll be able to find it, especially if wikipedia covers it. With the internet, any odd and famous amusing event from the past -- such as Mahir Çağrı, Tourist guy, Bert is Evil, Ate my balls, Mark V Shaney, is within easy reach. Why not give people the pleasure of being able to access the knowledge they want to access?--Milowent • talkblp-r 20:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
All of these are not single one off events, they are ongoing (or were) phenomina. Why is this even considerd worthy of a page? Does this mean that every twat who does something idiotic that gets news coverage (and here we see Mr Spigot nailing an albertros to his head) gets a page. Its worse then the Guiness book of people doing daft things to get a bit of attention.Slatersteven (talk) 20:38, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Who was that airplane pilot who landed in the river one time? Edison (talk) 20:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP A lot of individuals are famous for 1 event ( John Hinkley Jr, Sirhan Sirhan, Samatha Smith (wrote Andropov a letter),

and there are others, being known for 1 event does not disqualify this individual. Add to it that he was arrested and is now at Rikers Island. KEEP KoshVorlonNaluboutes,Aeria Gloris 20:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

True but the events they were part of were what made them notable, in a senece they are not notable its what they did (or tried to do) that makes them notable. All this bloke did was to lose he temper and storm of a plane his actions will not affext any one but those invloved.Slatersteven (talk) 20:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now. I would highly recommend a delete and merge, but this should be interesting to watch unfold. The way things are turning out, I am inclined to wait a couple of weeks for things to settle down. He's almost achieving cult status, which surprised me a great deal. --Hourick (talk) 20:46, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And this will (if it turns ouot this is a flash in the pan) be used with the shout of notability is not temporary. Why not delete it and if it does have milage re-create the page?Slatersteven (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Lots of biographies in Wikipedia are about people famous for "one event." In this case, ABC News calls his departure probably "one of the most dramatic ways to quit a job ever." Christian Science Monitor says he is "fast becoming an Internet folk hero." Activities which are the extremes of human behavior may well be encyclopedic. He is not just one more person who quit his job. His response to abuse from a customer has received 1416 instances of coverage worldwide. If Chesley Sullenberger gets an article which survived AFD for one event lasting a few seconds of piloting of an airplane and some good luck landing an airplane it, why can't Slater have an article for one event on an airplane in which he was finally fed up and quit in a way which abused employees worldwide can appreciate? The court case is only beginning, and he says his behavior is a response to out of control passengers. In a legal case, there is not one event but a series of events, lasting months.Edison (talk) 20:48, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is a world of differance between a man saving 100's of lives and some moron losing his temeper and throwing a wobbly (I show em a nick some beer). Most burglary trials last months, some get news coverage are they notable too?Slatersteven (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What does that mean in plain English? wobbly, nick? Which burglary trials got 1416 instances of coverage around the world, because the papers and news channels saw something out of the ordinary? Edison (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It is plain English and in common usage, throwing a wobbly To throw a tantrum. Reached the end of rational thought and action. So how much coverage would an single event that has legal repercusions need to qaulify as a notable event?Slatersteven (talk) 21:02, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that on a case-by-case basis editors made the decision to include Sullenberger's article in Wikipedia does not void WP:BLP1E. Editors did not delete WP:BLP1E to make that happen. Practically, what this means is that editors can make the case here in the Afd there's a significance to Steven Slater, that again, on a case-by-case basis, editors can come to a consensus that a stand-alone biographical article on Steven Slater should appear in Wikipedia. Make the case for it because there's a lot of delete votes here citing a policy for doing so. patsw (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Sullenberger is notable for his work outside of that one event. The fact that no article existed doesn't mean he didn't rate one. - Richfife (talk) 21:46, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Meets WP:BLP1E. ----moreno oso (talk) 21:08, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • keep ...the drama will continue to unfold... he will be more famous... he is episodically emblematic of a completed scenario and will be added to the culture's legend Masterknighted (talk) 21:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Most of the keep votes are of the "More things are coming" variety, which violates WP:CRYSTAL. This is a clear one event situation. - Richfife (talk) 21:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Pity there's no WP:IICDIINN: "If I can do it, it's not notable". - Richfife (talk) 01:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Wrong. Note the Christian Science Monitor and ABC News above, which are not predictions by me that more coverage will be given, but statements from reliable sources of present notability. People magazine says many people are "labeling JetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater a hero. " Not a prediction, a statement of the present state of notability. Time Magazine says "Slater's unique flip-out struck a nerve with frustrated flyers the world over." Edison (talk) 21:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of people get called heros on the internet that does not establish lasting notability Time seems to be usurem this has any milage http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/10/the-5-best-things-about-flight-attendant-steven-slaters-freakout/. Is this all the internet (and wikiepdia)is for making heros out of tits. I can imagine the fisrt of the pages about some NIMBYs complaining about a new Tesco in Much whinning in the rut.Slatersteven (talk) 21:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snow delete. Case of WP:BLP1E. SYSS Mouse (talk) 21:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - per yonder votes. Not really notable for anything, just in the news as a fluff story at the moment. cookiecaper (talk / contribs) 22:58, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Don't throw a wobbly now, I just wanna keep per Milowent. Yes, I went there. Cindamuse (talk) 23:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, but move to an article about the event itself. This would eliminate any BLP or BLP1E concerns because it would no longer be a BLP article. If it's notable enough for almost every major media outlet in the world, it ought to be notable enough for Wikipedia. (Yeah, I know this is Wikipedia and not WikiNews; my point on notability still stands.) –BMRR (talk) 00:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:SNOW. I was tempted to close this discussion myself, but I'm short on time. If he becomes genuinely notable in the future, we can recreate or restore the article. Until then, it needs to go. --jonny-mt 01:23, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This is just going to snowball. The guy will get stints on talk shows and a book deal...everyone should know the drill by now. If, in defiance of the natural order of things, it fades to obscurity relatively quickly, we can always delete or merge it in 2 months. To be honest, I don't know why people are so eager to delete these sorts of things within 24 hours of them happening. Let the story play out and see how the article evolves for a couple weeks...
    --K10wnsta (talk) 02:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: What's a snow delete? Argel1200 (talk) 02:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    A snow delete involkes the WP:SNOW essay, essentially stating that, while AfDs normally run seven days, the result is so certain that the discussion should be closed early as a full discusssion is not warranted. It's not a policy, but is intended to be a guide to the application of WP:Ignore all rules and WP:Wikipedia is not a Bureaucracy.  -- Lear's Fool 02:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
One gets the impression that people would use "snow delete" when the article's deletion is anything but sure. Get it out of here before there can be any debate. MrBook (talk) 18:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seems to be no question. The man is being hailed as a national hero, already has a fan page on facebook with hundreds of thousands of followers. --Lamrock (talk) 01:44, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 1

  • Strong Keep This is definetely not a case of WP:BLP1E, apparently most of you didn't read the WP:BLP1E. The reliable sources are persistent. Right now, more people around the world know of this guy and this story then will ever know who John Hinckley is. And, according to WP:BLP1E, John Hinckley is the prototype of notability for a single event. There are more notes about this guy than about 99 percent of Wikipedia subjects. Right now, a google search for Steven Slater gives 1.4 million results. All of those results could be characterized as "Notes". If something has 1.4 million notes, then it is notable. Any other interpretation is a psychotic break from reality that, unfortunatley, has taken over the mind set of some Wikipedians. I just did a random article, from the home page of Wikipedia, and came up with "Chemlab", a band. Googling it reveals 90,000 results. How is that more notable than the millions for Steven Slater? There is no way that the notability of this story is going away. Keep.--Marcwiki9 (talk) 02:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Mbstone (talk) 03:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I disagree with those who say delete. This man is worthy enough to have an article...it is an ongoing story...come on, there are plenty of pages on here about people who killed one person, or robbed one bank or got nude in public once; for this man, he freaked out and got the media's attention. Of course the article needs sprucing up; but please consider keeping this page. It will gradually blossom. Tinton5 (talk) 03:19, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It needs to blossom first, then he can have an article. I'm surprised this hasn't been cited yet, but Other Stuff Exists is a pretty important precedent here. - Richfife (talk) 03:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Not a case of WP:BLP1E this was a notable event in western culture. It was a safe and sane dramatic event. The first since 9/11 - and as such should be applauded and remembered. This is a historical event of note by virtual of the safety within a space deemed to be the most dangerous. Pakse 10:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.141.193 (talk) [reply]
Ummm... A little early to be calling it "historical" and "seminal" (from the edit comment) isn't it? - Richfife (talk) 03:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed to MOVE - see below Once off yes, but wasn't the Cuban Missile Crisis a once off event? Didn't Jack Ruby get famous for a once off event? I believe this one should stay because of it's iconic status. It's certainly exceptionally notable, just look at Google News stats. It's probable that his actions really show an industry wide problem. No one has claimed that this was a stunt for self-promotion. The guy flipped, did so in a manner that caused instant global fame, and is regarded as a hero by many. His actions though crazed highlight a developing situation of passengers and staff being pushed too far by security and airline policies. This incident is quite likely to be looked back on as "Where it Started". I would say we should instead agree to revisit the AfD in 6-12 months. This incident's impact reflects on so much more than a once off meltdown by a disgruntled employee. Sorry, I have no login as I choose to edit directly. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 04:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - You really think he's going to start a social movement? His actions are not 'so much more' than what they are. - Richard Cavell (talk) 07:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What's with all the weird messianic vibes that keep showing up? How is this different from, say, this scenario: A security guard on the fifth floor of a department store is hassled by a customer, rags them out on the store wide intercom, grabs a hat a he likes and takes off down the fire escape. Cops find him screwing his wife. - Richfife (talk) 07:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's an airplane fetish, that's what. Two people killed in a car? Boring! Two people killed in a plane? News! Morenoodles (talk) 10:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's a much bigger picture here. The entire industry is struggling with some impossible balances. Security "concerns" vs Passenger convenience, Profitability concerns vs staff morale, Space vs size of people, The innocent cabin crew have become the Airline company point contact for the well documented increasingly angry travelling public. The insistence of the Securocrats on control vs the realities of human nature and needs. Luggage fees vs Carry On behaviours. What this is is an unmanagable, unbalancable set of competing needs. Steven Slater's actions have shown a major policy and system debacle in a human and personal way. It was highly notable and globally published, and it reflects a much larger issue of an entire system breaking down. Notable, encylopedic, historical - and most of all - people want to read it - newspapers don't publish things people don't want to read - of course it belongs in an encylopedia - some people want to read about this guy in more depth than just a oneliner in the JetBlue article. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
These are all very good and valid points but wikipedia is not the place for them as per WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND. GainLine ♠ ♥ 11:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Several mainstream news sites have likened him and his drama to Balloon Boy, Joe the Plumber, and Chesley Sullenberger. Didn't the articles of all three survive AFD? Edison (talk) 23:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - classic case of WP:BLP1E. Quoting the policy: "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them." If this guy become really famous down the road which I doubt, then the article can always be recreated.—Chris!c/t 05:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Even if Slater falls back into obscurity, he would have something in common with John Hinckley, Jr (see WP:BLP1E) who did not get up to very much after his assassination attempt, except going to jail. The event in this case does have significance as the first time that a flight attendant has made their own emergency exit, a hero in popular culture and the most outrageous way to quit a job. The event also highlights the rudeness of passengers these days. We can't predict where this event will end as it is still unfolding. I say let the article evolve with the incident and review later. Freelion (talk) 06:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep' - Let's wait for a week to see what happens, then put back deletion on the table. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.28.251 (talk) 07:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Policy goes the other way: If he's not notable, delete the article and recreate when he is. - Richfife (talk) 08:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No one is questioning notability with thousands of newspaper reports on him. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:18, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, my friend. The only reason this article has been put up for AfD is for the claim of lack of notability. If this AfD ends with a deletion, it will be done because of the presumption of a lack of notability. Since that outcome will strain all credibility, I doubt if even Wikipedia would continue to make that claim. Please vote to Keep.--Marcwiki9 (talk) 01:34, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment People want to read about this fellow, and Wikipedia is one obvious place. When there's a juicy murder (or celebrity suicide) there are copycats; perhaps now dozens, hundreds of people will be shouting "Take this job and shove it!" Perhaps we should wait a week and see whether wage-slave capitalism collapses. Morenoodles (talk) 10:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Are people really comparing this to an attempt to assassinate a president, or to a nuclear war almost starting? I was so certain that this was WP:BLP1E that I almost blanked the article as a courtesy as soon as I saw it, expecting it to be deleted within a few hours. I don't know why this doesn't seem so obviously cut and dry...am I really missing something?Qwyrxian (talk) 10:22, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. This is August, or what in Britain is called the "silly season". The floods in Pakistan (just to take one example) are several million times more important, but people don't want to read about that kind of stuff. In contrast to hundreds of thousands of actual endangered humans, Slater (population: one) is a "human interest story"; and if he's not "the common man" then at least he seems closer to that elusive ideal than do any number of cringe-inducing faux-folksy politicians. Morenoodles (talk) 10:34, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Possible compromise solution - So many people are calling for deletion per WP:BLP1E, maybe we need to follow WP:BLP1E....... I see no event article, maybe that is a suitable compromise? Create an event article as that very much deserves an article, and would probably be better to have than an article primarily about the event than one that is lodged under someones name. Whatever happens this incident should somehow find it's way to a wiki article. 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to an article on the event, and keep. (Thanks to the IP immediately above.) Morenoodles (talk) 10:36, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome. I'm trying to learn wiki. We all talk about WP:BLP1E, and it opens with some great guidance "The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person". Everyone, including me, who is expressing outrage at the prospects of banishment of article wants the issue in wiki, i don't think anyone has yelled that they want it covered in Steven Slater specifically. If he does become mr working class folk hero, we can revisit. Move 24.23.198.90 (talk) 10:44, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If we move it it should not be to a page about this incident but to a page about Stewerds wiging out. Lets put it into a wider context.Slatersteven (talk) 12:23, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep - If Fuck for Forest has a place on wikipedia so does an article on this dude - lighten up guys! Kotare (talk) 11:09, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment several actually:
  1. I do not think we are yet at the threshold of Balloon boy hoax in terms of having a deeper story. An anon editor started a factual summary at Flight attendant to which I added the information on the arraignment.
  2. Some of the keep votes are merely WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and do not engage any points we have raised re WP:BLP1E. They are arguments to avoid.
  3. A large volume of media coverage in itself is not sufficient.
  4. If we move this article to Overhead bin controversy or Notable nonlethal incidents on aircraft and the story just ends with Slater taking a plea deal for the misdemeanor charges, it still is just about one individual which lasted for 2 news cycles. patsw (talk) 12:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep - Considering that after less than 2 days, the fan page[1] on Facebook for this individual has over 100,000 followers, I think that itself should show notability of this individual, possibly developing the triggering event. Anakin-Marc "DJ AniZ" Zaeger (talk) 13:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Given the level of effort required for one to "Like" (not follow) Steven Slater, this claim is nonsense. Notability in the context of an Afd is term of art. Does the article meet the criteria for WP:N? Facebook is coverage but it's trivial coverage. patsw (talk) 13:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep A classic case of BLP1E distortion. The point of that guideline is that we should not have biographies as spinoff articles from notable events if the people in question were ancillary to the event. But this case we have one person, one event, one article. The topic is highly notable, being covered globally in major news media and so merits coverage in some fashion. The name of the article and its scope is not a matter for AFD as it can be addressed by ordinary editing in accordance with our editng policy. Colonel Warden (talk) 14:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
thats not how I read it, BLP1E says that we should not have articels about people who are notable fro one event, and nothing else. Not tnat we should not have articels about people whoes only notability is being involved in an event.Slatersteven (talk) 14:17, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No - there are numerous people who are only famous for one major event and we properly have articles upon them because of their great notability. See Rosa Parks, Tank Man, Gavrilo Princip, &c. The essential point of BLP1E is that a major notable event is not the occasion for writing separate biographies about all the people who were caught up in it. Separate biographies should only be created for individuals whose role in the event was central and are notable by virtue of the extensive coverage given to those particular people. We seem fine in this case because the person in question was quite central to the event and there is no separate article about the event. We are therefore not multiplying our articles about this notable matter beyond necessity. Removing all mention of the matter completely would be improper censorship contrary to core policy in that it would be based upon our own personal judgement of the matter rather than following the lead of the numerous independent professional publishers and editors who have decided that this matter is worthy of note. Colonel Warden (talk) 11:28, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Come on Mr. Slater, you keep commenting here but fail to disclose your COI. How were you editing from jail yesterday anyhow?--Milowent • talkblp-r 14:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Blast and dam found out. OK I admit it I am in fact called Steven Slater.Slatersteven (talk) 14:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It's an incident about a flight attendant and we already have Flight attendant. It is already summarized there in about 50 words. patsw (talk) 18:06, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 2

  • Keep but rewrite and move - The incident is clearly notable. The article should be rewritten so that it's not a BLP about Steven Slater, but about the incident. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep': This man is being viewed as a hero to the disgruntled working public. There is no reason to remove him from the records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.129.126.127 (talk) 16:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:21, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:21, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but rewrite and move - Agreed with A Quest For Knowledge. Focus on incident not individual. AlexJohnTorres12 (talk) 17:17, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Cult hero in the making. It's easy to judge people like Slater as persons of 'minor importance'.Maxis ftw (talk) 18:06, 11 August 2010 (UTC) -Addendum: Like the Salahi's crashing the whitehouse dinner [2009 U.S. state dinner security breaches], rewrite this article about the incident itself; as per a quest for knowledge.Maxis ftw (talk) 18:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep. This article seems to be receiving the same kind of hysteria that was visited on the "Balloon Boy" article when that story first happened, with people saying there shouldn't be a news article because it was a fleeting trivial news story. Of course now, many months down the road, Balloon Boy is still a talking point and a notable reference that will still be popping up years down the line, and calls to delete the article now sound kind of silly, and I can just about guarantee you that the Steven Slater incident will be the same way. Just because it's current does not mean it's not noteworthy. Whether he's a "hero" or a "criminal" is, of course, irrelevant to whether or not the article should be deleted, but it seems obvious to me that either way it should be kept. For the public reaction alone it is noteworthy. MrBook (talk) 18:18, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I saw a question about this at the BLP noticeboard, but Slater is the poster child for BLP1E---a policy I don't particularly like and think gets over used. But in a month this event will be all but forgotten. This is a one hit event where nobody is going to be asking "who slater is" or "has he done something like this before." It's purely news.---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 18:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This article is now a cultural meme and is therefore the traceable lineage of the soon to be term "thanks, it's been great." as well as "grab two beers and jump". which is associated to Jimmy Fallon. This should not be associated to the Flight in question as the story is based on the actions of Steven Slater.---Indigo.Buffalo 13:36. 11 August 2010 (CST)
  • Delete. BLP1E, clearly. There is other evidence that cannot yet be cited that this may become a meme, but until that's shown reliably, this is just a news event. Wikinews is over thataway. --MASEM (t) 18:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, has received extensive media coverage, and there's been talk of book-deals and maybe even a movie. Let's wait and see how it plays out. Helvetica (talk) 19:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, textbook example of BLP1E. An article might be constructed around the incident itself, but it should not be based on this article. Horologium (talk) 19:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this guy is notable and is very likely to become even more so. Citybrand (talk) 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Obviously notable, with reliable sources. It doesn't really matter that he is only notable for one event: it's just silly to put the article under any other name, and as noted below, Joe the Plumber is a good precedent. BE——Critical__Talk 20:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment None of these recent keep votes speak to why WP:BLP1E, WP:1E and WP:NOT should not apply. Memo to the keep voters: Notable (in the sense of getting noticed) is not sufficient. I concede that he's gotten a lot of publicity, but in the long run, nothing of consequence has happened to anyone but Steve Slater in all of this. It is an incident with global coverage of something totally inconsequential. Already, the medias's frenzy with it is eroding and we've moving on. patsw (talk) 21:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment On the contrary Patsw, many keep votes speak to why WP:BLP1E does not apply. Go back and re-read them, with a copy of WP:BLP1E in front of your face. You will see why the delete voters have neither read nor understand the BLP1E paragraph. And I have a second on the contrary. Can you back up the statement that Notable is not sufficient? I thought notable was the criteria for an article? Notable, in common english, means that the subject is worthy of notice. According to WP:GNG, this subject is clearly notable. --Marcwiki9 (talk) 02:07, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I can. Read Wikipedia:GNG, which you cite. Note the last bullet point: "Presumed" means that significant coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion. Editors may reach a consensus that although a topic meets this criterion, it is not appropriate for a stand-alone article. For example, such an article may violate what Wikipedia is not. And the footnote reads: Moreover, not all coverage in reliable sources constitutes evidence of notability for the purposes of article creation; for example, directories and databases, advertisements, announcements columns, and minor news stories are all examples of coverage that may not actually support notability when examined, despite their existence as reliable sources. Now go look at WP:NOT, specifically WP:NOT#NEWS. Wikipedia doesn't cover news reporting; Wikinews does. That's a different project. Horologium (talk) 02:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are trying to say something here by transcribing some bullet points and footnotes into this record, but there is no logic that I can use to try to understand what you are saying. I agree that Editors might reach a consensus one way or the other. I am adding my points to help reach a consensus, and so are you. Why restate the obvious? Merely to point out that we might engage in this debate? To point out that it could end either way? And furthermore, all of your "for examples" listed about have nothing to do with this article. But, Thanks for participating. It's still kind of fun. --Marcwiki9 (talk) 02:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I was quoting, in their entirety, sections from the GNG. You asked, rather pointedly, whether Patsw could "back up the statement that 'notable' is not sufficient". I quoted a section of the GNG to note that sometimes notability is not sufficient. This is a minor news story, despite the carpet-bombing coverage it has received (it's apparently a slow news week), and the incident should be covered, not Steven Slater. This is something that should be covered by Wikinews, and may merit coverage in Flight attendant (it is) and perhaps a story about the incident itself (which is still a redlink). Horologium (talk) 03:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I think I get you now. I still think that you and I would have a major disagreement about what GNG really means, and how one decides what is notable and what is not. You might say, for instance, that something is notable but not independent, like a label on a product. I might say, that label is not notable at all. These are important semantic differences. I still vote to keep. I suspect that you would still vote the other way. --Marcwiki9 (talk) 05:22, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I will stipulate:
  • The world (or at least world media) has noticed Steven Slater. He had the good fortune to do this in (1) media saturated New York and (2) on a very slow news day. That's not sufficient. Here's what the oft-cited never-until-now quoted policy is: patsw (talk) 03:50, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regrettable keep, not something I would normally do but the coverage is there. Marcus Qwertyus 21:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Should definitly be kept. As stated before, If Numa-Numa can have a page, this guy can too. Merging it into a generic page about flight attendants is not appropriate as this specifically refers to one incident and one person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.120.35.193 (talk) 22:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment that's a silly argument, numa-numa is 6 years old but is still resonably popular and in fact is rated as the second most popular viral video of all time by some sources, references and the likes have continued to appear in mainstream media sources. This is only several days old so we have no way of knowing what, if anything, will be the long lasting effect of this. If you do know the future, I would like the money so can you give me some info that will help like next weeks lottery numbers? Please give it privately or it will defeat the purposes. Cheers Nil Einne (talk) 12:58, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Fairly notable, with a wide variety of sources. Once the storm has passed, and the facts of the case been estabilished, this article should boil down to a fairly decent little article on the event. LukeSurl t c 22:27, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Chesley Sullenberger has a page and he's famous for one event as well. I've seen about as much news coverage of Steven Slater as I saw about Chesley Sullenberger. 68.45.109.70 (talk) 23:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment For comparison, Chesley Sullenberger has 2720 hits at Google News archive, while Steven Slater has 3354 hits at Google News (too new to show up in archives, apparently). Edison (talk) 23:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete It is comical though. Can single event ever be applied given that this was covered by the worldwide massmedia? Like the first comment about that viral video. Or is this a case of other crap exists? --Luckymelon (talk) 23:31, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: This is NOT a subject of WP:BLP1E which reads: "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, AND if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual".. Slater is NOT likely to remain a low-profile individual. He is likely to have a reality show, a book deal, and much more because his name and story has become a valuable brand that captures audience attention, and that's what drives continuing media. Harry4000 (talk) 00:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: The number of sources and the media coverage does not affects its notability (for more or for less). We are working for an Encyclopedia, not for a gossip magazine. Caiaffa (talk) 00:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename: I said keep last time, but on second thought, this should probably be renamed "Steven Slater plane incident" or something similar as the incident is the notable thing, not Slater himself. 68.45.109.70 (talk) 01:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: He's a hero. The term "pull a Steve Slater" is already creeping into our vernacular. His actions are going to have people review how customer service representatives in any capacity are treated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrfoldes (talk • contribs) 01:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep': Obviously this is the first ever episode of this kind that would directly relate to the current security crisis that local and international airports are having all over the world. The difference is this time the contribution came from an airline worker and because the physical act was not directed at either the crew or passengers, it will without a doubt add another law to the Patriot Act.--American Values • talkAmerican Values (talk) 02:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)American Values — American Values (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. ----moreno oso (talk) 02:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment' wow looks like I've hit the goldmine, another person who knows the future. I'm awaiting my lottery numbers. Nil Einne (talk) 12:58, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: If the Numa Numa guy has a wiki then Steven Slater deserves one as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.129.126.127 (talk) 20:10, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment see above. You too are welcome to give me some lottery numbers or whatever if you can see the future Nil Einne (talk) 12:58, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - WP:ONEEVENT, WP:RECENT, WP:NOT#NEWS, etc. And please, no more arguments about how this person's notability is certain to increase with book deals, multiple appearances on Oprah, made-for-tv movies and the like. As the situation exists now, this is an unsuitable topic for a Wikipedia article. --Bongwarrior (talk) 02:56, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - this person does not have to have been famous as an actor or musician or related to politics. He did become part of current Pop Culture, (example) Susan Boyle. ring a bell? He did do something wrong but, he acted in a way a portion of americans wish they could without losing their jobs. don't judge him too soon, you don't know what might come of this in the future. Wikipedia is made for "everything." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.173.209.175 (talk) 03:03, 12 August 2010 (UTC) — 70.173.209.175 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    No, it is not. This is an encyclopaedia, and topics must be appropriate for an encyclopaedia to warrant inclusion.  -- Lear's Fool 03:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTNEWS. Great stories and exciting gossip are welcome elsewhere, but we do not preserve someone's bad day in a pseudo encyclopedic article. Johnuniq (talk) 04:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Biographies of the person have begun to appear in major news sources, extending this beyond just a single event as he becomes known for being himself. BloodmoonIvy (talk) 05:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC) — BloodmoonIvy (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Keep, though consider moving to an event-centered article rather than a person-specific one. There can be little debate now that the incident has sparked a larger discussion in the populace about both general employee disenchantment as well as simmering problems with air travel. (And, of course, there can be absolutely no complaints about notability.) This is not the type of article that BLP1E was designed for, and the attempted rigid adherence to an incomplete idea of BLP1E (whilst completely ignoring what it actually says) is rather silly. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 05:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 3

  • KEEP BECAUSE HE IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just kidding, just kidding. I say delete, because although his story is a hilarious one, it's not to the point where it warrants an article. Maybe if there's more media coverage surrounding this guy and it turns into a saga of some sorts, then it would be appropriate to have an article on him. Sidenote: I got here by typing his name into the search box, fully expecting to for an article on him to exist. And I have plenty of edits on Wikipedia, but most of my contributions are under a different IP. No need to mark my presence with suspicion. 24.189.87.160 (talk) 06:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep-- the amount of news coverage on this is explosive, and the a NY times reporter wrote an article comparing him to Chesley B. Sullenberger III from the Hudson river landing. He may not have been notable at the time when this article was nominated for deletion, but he certainly is now. Nomader (Talk) 07:40, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- generated significant general discussion about the working conditions for flight attendants, along with parodies of the event. If necessary, convert into article about the event, but not delete or integrate into the general flight attendant article. 118.208.40.174 (talk) 08:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep based on the amount of news coverage. It is a mischaracterization of WP:BLP1E to say this is a classic case. WP:BLP1E Requires that he both be notable for a one time even AND that he remain a low-profile individual. He is no longer a low profile individual. He is being extensively covered by many news organizations, including The New York Times. Plus the story keeps growing. Witness this article published today JetBlue’s Response to a Fed-Up Employee’s Exit, which queries how Jet Blue should deal with the publicity. Steven Slater is no longer a low-profile individual. —Ute in DC (talk) 08:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - as I believe that in the last two days the incident has attained notability. I agree that the article should be about the event rather than the person. I also draw attention to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brendan McMahon (2nd nomination) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lisa Robertson (Australian) as former one-event biographies for comparison. - Richard Cavell (talk) 09:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge and redirect to jetBlue Airways. For all the coverage about Steven Slater it is just about a single incident which was over in seconds. The background of his life is only of interest to news organisations in connection with his reaction to the disruptive passenger. He might forge a public career in the future but that can't be certain; for the meantime the incident is notable but Steven Slater as a person is not. Sam Blacketer (talk) 11:08, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • MOTION TO CLOSE AS NO CONSENSUS: Per precedent of Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Colorado_balloon_incident. We've had scads of people weighing in, and at best we are heading to no consensus. We can revisit in a few months.--Milowent • talkblp-r 12:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to JetBlue Airways (moved from Delete) per Sam Blacketer. This person is not notable, but the current coverage at JetBlue Airways seems reasonable to me.  -- Lear's Fool 12:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Could someone explain how Steven Slater has a non-low-profile after the media moves on? His last few seconds of his 15 minutes of fame are nearly over. Unlike Chesley Sullenberger, he is not likely to be honored by the airline industry and his occupational groups for a lifetime of achievement in his profession. Unlike the Balloon boy hoax there's no deeper story here about premediating a media hoax and child abuse. Unlike the many notable performers in arts and sports cited for WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS above, which is not an argument to make, but an argument to avoid, he doesn't have a record which distinquishes himself among others in his category. If this WP:AfD passes, we will have to establish a category for persons who have saturated global media for 48 hours so that any person at some threshold of media coverage ought to have a Wikipedia article for any reason or no reason at all. Slater's story is superficial: he blew up in unprofessional way, deployed the evacuation chute, and was arrested. Everything else is coverage about the coverage. patsw (talk) 12:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. A redirect to Jet Blue Airways is not correct. The actions of Steve Slater were related to his employment in the airline industry as a flight attendant, and not specifically to employment at Jet Blue. patsw (talk) 12:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    This event receives a brief mention as an incident related to JetBlue Airways in the article, which strikes me as being perfectly reasonable. If you're questioning which article the coverage should be in, you should bring it up on the relevant talkpage, but for the moment, this remains a plausible search term for an even related to JetBlue Airways.  -- Lear's Fool 13:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect probably to Jet Blue Airways. No evidence of significant long lasting notability at the current time so article not suitable per WP:BLP1E. Even if a seperate article is warranted, it should be on the incident not the person so the article should be renamed. If significant long lasting notability eventuates, the article can of course be recreated Nil Einne (talk) 13:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and retitle/reshape as an article about the event. The level of coverage has been enough, in my view, to justify an article about this. I agree with those who say WP:BLP1E is being misapplied in arguments to delete; what it indicates is that we should probably not have an article about the person, but about the event for which they are known. Propaniac (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The advantage that Wikipedia has over other sites is in its ability to combine the most up to date information with background information, something that a news site can't feasibly do. First and foremost, this is a reference. I'm sure that some people have mentioned "Wikinews" and the truth is, nobody reads Wikinews, nobody. Although my guess is that the Steven Slater will not prove to be historically notable, nor even a trivia question, my guess is no better than anybody's else's. I imagine it will be nominated again a couple of months from now, at which time the answer to the question "Do you remember the flight attendant who cussed and slid down the slide?" will probably be "No, what are you talking about". For now, the no consensus result, that sets no precedent one way or another, will be satisfactory. Mandsford 14:55, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This event, and the person involved in it, will be long forgotten in six months. This has no real notability except as any of a myriad of "fifteen minutes of fame" stories do. It doesn't rise to the level of needing an encyclopedic article. The simple mention of the incident that exists on JetBlue's article is sufficient coverage. Ithizar (talk) 16:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article isn't even clear about what happened and if this is to believed, things happened very differently GainLine ♠ ♥ 16:13, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Response I am unclear what the relevance of that article is to this discussion. The fact that there are conflicting stories does not affect whether or not the Steven Slater article is about someone who is sufficiently notable. —Ute in DC (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Because while the arguments for deletion are all on WP policy grounds, the arguments to keep are all that Mr Slater is some sort of folk hero leading to a lot of crystal balling about his notability. This shows that its just as likely something else happened and the things were embellished by the media to make a better story. The article isn't even very clear about what happened and when it all boils down, its about a guy who flipped out, and quit his job (in albeit spectacular fashion). The fact that it made it to a few novelty news sections doesn't impart notability. The issues that have been highlighted by this incident are certainly noteworthy and an article or section in flight attendant about the changing role and work conditions of flight crew could include a piece on this, that is where this guy belongs, not with an article dedicated to him. GainLine ♠ ♥ 18:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose merge to Jet Blue, since nothing in his actions were specifically a reaction to factors at Jet Blue which are different from other airlines. A merger to Flight attendant would make somewhat more sense, about as much as meerging Balloon Boy to Balloon. Clearly you have not looked at the coverage at Google News, since the 4597 instances of coverage includes respected news sources worldwide, and not "a few novelty news sites." Other claims that coverage "will soon diminish" and he will soon be forgotten are pure crystal-ball gazing, in contrast to the sources cited above which state that he is already a "folk hero" to many who are tired of dealing with obnoxious customers. Edison (talk) 19:20, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Important cultural landmark. Spontaneous reaction in broad swathe of the public, renders the individual symbolic of a range of important ideas that needed succinct expression and that found it in what was really a very small act that was not apparently even recorded by video or in sound. Nevertheless just the description of the brief unfolding of a relatively unimportant event has apparently captured so many people's attention. I therefore think the individual behind that event should have a Wiki article for reference purposes in keeping with Wikipedia's need to serve as a resource for significant ideas. Bus stop (talk) 17:04, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment for keep This is insane, I didn't think it would be this global. Here is a Korean report about it. [2] Additionally, I went ahead and created JetBlue Flight 1052. I don't know if it would qualify as an "incident" but I thought I'd threw it in there.--Hourick (talk) 18:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but rewrite and move to JetBlue Airways Flight 1052. Cindamuse (talk) 18:09, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I SECOND THE MOTION TO CLOSE DUE TO LACK OF CONSENSUS. Cindamuse (talk) 18:09, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongest possible ever in a million light years delete - I also object to any premature close. This is not a vote it is a policy related debate...for which this is global and important cultural landmark has no weight at all in the closing position. One event notability only.Off2riorob (talk) 19:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand... Isn't one event notability enough? WP:NOT PAPER. BE——Critical__Talk 19:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment — Reliable sources may not use the terms that I used above (important cultural landmark) but I think some reliable sources have characterized the event in terms similar to those. Bus stop (talk) 19:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Its trash, trash , trash, trash, a fleeting trash at that, keep it if you like it but it is valueless un-encyclopedic trash and imo if you like it and want it, there are many wikis you can create yourself and its free, please don't degrade the quality of this one. Off2riorob (talk) 19:16, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Nice WP:IDONTLIKEIT tantrum, which does not contribute much to the present discussion. Edison (talk) 19:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Glad you like it, my commets are in reply to a lot of the keep he is really famous and iconin comments, its rubbish, utter one event rubbish, do with it what you like but its crap and not what the wikipedia is here for, please consider hosting such crap at other locations, well famous, iconic, yes really must keep this crap.Off2riorob (talk) 19:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, many of the keep vote represent WP:ILIKEIT and they should be ignored when closing this afd.—Chris!c/t 19:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: It seems like the obvious and logical solution here is to move the article to JetBlue Airways Flight 1052. Doing so would put the focus on the incident rather than on the person involved in the incident, and I believe this would resolve any BLP1E issues because the article would no longer be a BLP article. –BMRR (talk) 19:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would support this even I voted delete earlier.—Chris!c/t 19:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Snow delete, and who ever suggested this be merged with the Flight Attendant article must of been "smoking the reefer;" what a stupid idea. --A3RO (mailbox) 19:34, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This nomination is really bullshit. This event is OBVIOUSLY notable, it is sourced to multiple RS. That should be the end of the story here. BE——Critical__Talk 19:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No shit the event is notable. The nomination is to delete the article referring to the person, not the event. In this case, this idiot who has become famous for no damn reason. I support delete per snow, but support a merge to the flight number. --A3RO (mailbox) 20:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, one could merge to flight number, but per WP:NAME I'm pretty sure his name is the correct title. BE——Critical__Talk 20:15, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: WP:SNOW in no way applies here, at least not in favor of deletion. For those who aren't aware, SNOW is a call for early closure in one direction if there's not a "snowball in hell's" chance of it going the other way. The last time I counted, there were quite a few more "keep" than "delete" votes, and the trend has been towards more keep votes as the debate has progressed. So if it's going to be closed early per WP:SNOW, it would have to be for "keep" or "no consensus." -Helvetica (talk) 21:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And if this were a voting election, you'd have a point. But it's NOT. This is a rundown of arguments and the number of people that bring inane WP:ILIKEIT arguments don't matter, they will be evaluated as WP:ILIKEIT rather than valid reasons to keep the article. As opposed to the dozens of people citing several different policies why it shouldn't be kept. That is why this is a SNOW delete, because, according to the policies of Wikipedia, the results of this discussion don't have a snowball's chance in hell of making this 1-event BLP into any kind of sustainable, notable event. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that this guy is notable or will be notable in the future. Besides, even if there is a chance he can parlay this into some kind of Perez Hilton-like noteriety that's still going to happen in the future and keeping the article based on that violates WP:CRYSTAL. So, since there is a snowball's chance in hell of this article NOT violating WP:BLP1E and a snowball's chance in hell of this article NOT violating WP:CRYSTAL then it should be deleted - per WP:SNOW. Padillah (talk) 14:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Padillah, while you're right that it's not a simple matter of what has the most votes, there is still a matter of consensus, and, as of this point, we have nothing even resembling a consensus to delete. Your novel reinterpretation of WP:SNOW is convoluted at best. If your "delete" vote is based on BLP1E, then just cite that, but SNOW makes no sense in this case at all. Other users have simply looked at the same policies and come to a different conclusion than you have. The "delete" votes which simply cite "SNOW" are essentially not citing a reason at all. -Helvetica (talk) 21:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep, per all of the excellent reasons above. He has achieved far more notable than most other BLP1E articles that were decided to be the level of notable necessary to override the rule. This man seems to override it as well. His cult status and the ongoing reams of coverage attest to that. SilverserenC 20:13, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Question Okay, now that I've studied it, the question here seems to be whether this event, which will be known mainly relative to the name of the person, and which is about that person's speech, should be under that person's name, or a name which Wikipedia gives that event (or which we get from RS). So the question is, do RS give an alternate name for the event as the primary name they give to the incident? Is the flight number really the title RS give this event? BE——Critical__Talk 20:22, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And BTW... many of the votes above seem to be about notability, as mine was. This nom is unusual. BE——Critical__Talk 20:25, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
He's almost achieving cult status User:Hourick... he will be more famous... he is episodically emblematic of a completed scenario and will be added to the culture's legend User:Masterknighted..His cult status User:Silver seren .. Important cultural landmark.User:Bus stop .. the amount of news coverage on this is explosive, and the a NY times reporter wrote an article comparing him to Chesley B. Sullenberger III from the Hudson river landing. He may not have been notable at the time when this article was nominated for deletion, but he certainly is now User:Nomader..the incident has sparked a larger discussion in the populace about both general employee disenchantment as well as simmering problems with air travel.User:bbatsell ..don't judge him too soon, you don't know what might come of this in the future. Wikipedia is made for "everything."{{User:IP:70.173.209.175]] ..it will without a doubt add another law to the Patriot Act.User:American Values..Keep: He's a hero. The term "pull a Steve Slater" is already creeping into our vernacularUser:Jrfoldes ..Keep: Should definitly be kept. As stated before, If Numa-Numa can have a page, this guy can too User:67.120.35.193 and there's been talk of book-deals and maybe even a movieUser:Helvetica..He is likely to have a reality show, a book deal, and much more because his name and story has become a valuable brand User:Harry4000.. hilarious.. Off2riorob (talk) 20:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Right it is funny, kind of, but I'm not sure of the point you're trying for? BE——Critical__Talk 20:43, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 4

  • Delete When I read WP:BLP1E this is the type of article I think about. The weight of the world of fluff journalism is against me/us, but I'm !voting my principles here.--Cube lurker (talk) 20:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. This is an AfD that seems to be heading to no consensus. Do not rename the article in the meantime. The debate for that can wait. Wikipedia has policies for naming articles, and it is certain that Jet Blue Flight 1052 will not be how the world remembers this incident in the same sense that KAL 007 and TWA 800 are the names given by history to those events. patsw (talk) 22:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - prime example of WP:BLP1E. This is the kind of article that policy is written to prevent. We're not exactlyu talking about Chelsey Sullenberger here. Robofish (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I should add, I don't think the event is notable either, otherwise I would suggest that this article be rewritten to focus on it. Robofish (talk) 23:25, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Keep, definitely a well documented event with coverage both National and International. I count this as more or less equivalent to Joe the Plumber and we got an article on him.Naraht (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Urging Comment D...E...L...E...T...E (it)!! --A3RO (mailbox) 23:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This user has already voted once above. SilverserenC 16:17, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: The article under discussion here has been flagged for {{Rescue}} by the Article Rescue Squadron, with no explanation as to why this article should be rescued and how that could happen (per ARS instructions). SnottyWong soliloquize 00:05, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTNEWS. SnottyWong soliloquize 00:05, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:BLP1E. I agree with Robofish completely. PvsKllKsVp (talk) 00:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He passes WP:BIO and WP:RS. We can always revisit the article in four to six months to see if he was just a flash in the pan. Otherwise, let it slide. :) Regent of the Seatopians (talk) 00:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    'Comment @Regent, your comment goes against everything encyclopedic; so we decide to come back later and see if he is really just a "one-hit wonder?" -- I can tell you now, HE IS; per BLP1E, this article has to be deleted!; or atleast mentioned as a section in another article pertaining to either the airline or the flight number. Simple. --A3RO (mailbox) 01:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment to all those !voting to delete per WP:BIO1E: this event is a reasonably widely covered incident involving Jetblue Airways, meaning it is not unreasonable for it to get a brief mention in the "Incidents" section of that article. I agree that this individual is not notable, and that this event is not sufficently notable to warrant an article. However, given that there is an appropriate level of coverage in the article on Jetblue Airways would it not be better to simply redirect this article to that section, thus retaining it as a plausible search term?  -- Lear's Fool 01:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very Strong Delete - As I fear that this may lead to a new trend of people doing crazy and off the wall things, just in order to get a wikipedia page about them. We really should begin to strictly enforce WP:BLP1E, or eventually it will begin to get out of hand.--Jojhutton (talk) 02:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rename to JetBlue Airways Flight 1052 or something of the sort. The incident is notable, yet the person fails WP:BLP1E. gidonb (talk) 03:06, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Substantial precedents and even a notability essay already address unusual aircraft incidents:
1. Wikipedia's coverage of aviation accidents and incidents is especially comprehensive and high quality, thanks to the work of some diligent, knowledgeable editors. Wikipedia does an unusually good job covering this material. As an aviation incident, JetBlue Airways flight 1052 is an event Wikipedia will want good coverage of next month, next year and next decade regardless of whether the general public remembers Steven Slater.
2. Our Aviation accidents and incidents article says the term "Aircraft incident" is formally defined in the Convention on International Civil Aviation as "an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations." This event will be considered an "incident"; Slater has been charged with "reckless endangerment" and an internal JetBlue memo leaked to the Wall Street Journal emphasizes the safety threat Slater's action posed.
3. We have a task force just for articles about aviation accidents and incidents: WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force. The task force's work includes many, many articles about non-accident incidents; here's a small sample: Eastwind Airlines Flight 517, Continental Airlines Flight 1883, 2005 Logan Airport runway incursion, JetBlue Airways Flight 292, Northwest Airlines Flight 327, CityFlyer Express Flight 8106, America West Flight 556, Korean Air Lines Flight 85, 2007 San Francisco International Airport runway incursion and Northwest Airlines Flight 188
4. There is an essay (not a guideline) with a section specifically addressing the treatment of accidents and incidents: WikiProject Aviation/Notability#Accidents
5. There are standard templates for these types of articles: WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force/Templates
6. The task force has a proposed style guideline: WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Layout (Accidents)
7. There are annual lists of aircraft accidents and incidents; see: Category:21st-century aviation accidents and incidents
8. Mr. Slater's personal fame may indeed be fleeting. If he wants to avoid 7 years in prison, he needs to keep a low profile until his case is resolved. By then, the public may have moved on in which case his hypothetical book and movie deals may have evaporated.
--A. B. (talk • contribs) 03:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia, and not a collection of the merely unusual events in the news. Not every reckless endangerment arrest is going to merit an article. That is a very low bar for a crime-related article. patsw (talk) 11:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think you missed my point. Please take another look at my comments both immediately above and elsewhere in this AfD. This should not be a crime-related article. I never said it should be a crime-related article. I said it should be converted to an aviation-related article with a new title. There are many community-supported precedents (including several hundred well-edited aircraft accident and incident articles), a well-developed structure for such articles, a proposed notability guideline and a Wikiproject for dealing with aviation incidents. Based on all of this, this event should be covered as either a full article or a well-developed subsection in the JetBlue Airways article. If you disagree with how the community handles these sorts of articles in general, then I suggest you start a conversation at the appropriate Wikiproject and on the talk page of the proposed guideline I cited previously. In the meantime, I am suggesting that we handle this event in accordance with well-established practice. --A. B. (talk • contribs) 12:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think you missed my point. It is not correct to apply the aviation incident template to this article. The only aviation hook is the unauthorized deployment of the evacuation slide by a flight attendant which resulted in no injury, no panic -- therefore no consequence. It is a non-event in terms of big aviation. This is but one aspect of the big story. It most certainly is a crime story, a popular culture story, a how-did-the-media-cover-this story, how did an overnight hero become a lying and unemployed loser story, a secret fantasy-fulfilled story, etc. Aspects of all these narratives apply. patsw (talk) 14:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I wouod now tend to agree (especialy as it now seems he was rude and stropy thruout the flight) that this is more about the airline industry then theis one man. It shouold be merged with an article about this kind of incident (is there one)?Slatersteven (talk) 12:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment.It now begins to kook like a drunk steward unable to control himself wigged oot and is trying to defelect blame and keep his job. This is going to turn out to be a one hit wonder. As tol being a hero, all I can say is Yoour May bsht may. But it may refelct a wider problom of poor attitude and work ethic from cabin crew and atrempts to cover up drunkeness of cabin crew by airlines. So maybe this will have some millage.Slatersteven (talk) 12:25, 13 August 2010 (UTC) Comment.I think this case illustrates nicely why we shouod wait before creating articels on curretn news events. It now begins to lokk like a very different situation from the one the artciel first represented. The artciel, will have to be constantly updated just to keep abreast of the changing story. If however a week or so had been waited then then we would have a better articel, and an idera of its actual significance.Slatersteven (talk) 13:00, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete My friend showed me this and it cracks me up. Encyclopedias are supposed to be stuffy. This is not an encyclopedic article. As far as rules, you can bend them and cite anything you want. There are rules supporting keep and supporting delete. Someone must have made up Wikipedia rules to conflict on purpose. The only way to decide is for you to be arbitrary since the Wikipedia rules conflict. This is just a goofball person. Notslater (talk) 15:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 5

- Keep - The parallels between this article and what the Chesley Sullenberger once looked like is striking. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 15:35, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is, one was a man whos actions saved hundreds of lives, the other was a man who appears to have got drunk and made an arse of himslef. One has a respected record as a safty oficer and has won numoerous awards the other is a man who wigged out on an airplane? How are these people alike?Slatersteven (talk) 15:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
News coverage is now making parallels between Slater's actions and Sullenberger's (I linked a NYtimes blog article comparison between the two), and Slater's becoming part of a wider discussion of the animosity between passengers and the airlines in general. I really feel like he's easily now more important than a WP:BLP1E. Nomader (Talk) 16:25, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No, the event may have wider resonance as an example of airline passenger relations (though it seems to be more about airline worker attitudes towards passengers and airlines). But he is not what is important, its what the overall case represents. That is why I say merge into a larger article. Also blogs may demonstrate that some one gives a hoot, not that that hooting is notable.Slatersteven (talk) 16:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment - These section breaks are not "Abritrary", they are actually necessary to the readability of the page. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 15:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it was done to prevent edit conflicts. Dream Focus 16:14, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Something can be arbitrary and necessary at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. Arbitrary refers to the fact that the locations where the section breaks were inserted were chosen arbitrarily. SnottyWong chatter 16:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Massive amounts of news coverage, and this isn't just one event, but a phenomenon this guy created. This page has been viewed 61,596 so far, and its only been here three days. [3] People have a subject they are interested in reading about, Wikipedia should be the place to find it. Dream Focus 16:14, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have a question for you. Whats to prevent people from doing something off the wall and crazy, in order to get a wikipedia page about themeslves? That was, I believe, the whole reason for WP:BLP1E, or am I mistaken? Yes there seems to be massive coverage, but not enough for this guy to have his won article. A section in another article would deal with the notability issues.--Jojhutton (talk) 17:12, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just being an 5 minute Interlebrity should not be reason for inclusion. Nor is the amnount of covrage. Its been (what) 5 days and its still the saem story. No changes in law. No reason to assume its anything more then it is a minor one off blown out of all proportion by an attempt to create an internomina so that some smart alecks can sit back and say "we created tha2".Slatersteven (talk) 16:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Observation I don't think I've ever seen this many individuals participate in a discussion, but it's now more than 100. For those who are counting opinions, it's 36 of one and 64 of another (or is it the other way around, hmmm...), with other comments being labeled as redirect, merge or no opinion. My only concern in letting one of these go on for seven days is in the potential for hard feelings. However, I'm pleased to say that it's been a very pleasant discussion of ideas. In fact, the only mention of the word "civil" has been in a reference to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. Congratulations to all parties on this one. Mandsford 12:49, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
By my loose count, it appears to be 55 Keep/Change Name to 46 Delete/Redirect. I might be off by a few on both, since some people voted weird or buried their vote in what they were saying or stuff like that. But, for the most part, this entire discussion seems to be a almost exact No Consensus. SilverserenC 18:46, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't matter, AfD is not a vote. SnottyWong chatter 19:49, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it matters. I suggested away up this pile of crap that this be early closed as no consensus, but a ball-bearing admin is needed for that task.--Milowent • talkblp-r 20:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Does this make him more notable? SnottyWong squeal 19:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely. I saw that on the Taiwanese national news, they did a whole CGI animation of the whole incident, its hilarious.--Milowent • talkblp-r 20:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He passes WP:BIO and WP:RS. don't be so uppity and think that he's not good enough for the "wiki-world".... Lighten up and let him stay... Lighten up Francis! 21:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by NICENICE (talk • contribs)
  • Comment Sheesh, I just knew that not only would someone write an article about this, but that the article would be listed on AfD! Does anyone else find this predictability troublesome? I believe that we need to find a better way to handle Nine Days Wonders, a phrase made famous by a publicity stunt performed by one William Kempe, whose biographical article might have vanished into the maws of WP:AfD had it not been that he worked with someone far more famous than he. Anyway, if I were pressed to opine on this matter, I'd agree to keeping the article for six months & then listing it to see if anyone remembered this notorious flight attendant: if the consensus at that time was "Who's he?" then we have a clear reason to delete the article -- or make it a redirect to Jetblue. (On the other hand, if the article is deleted now, I probably wouldn't miss it -- but I probably wouldn't miss the vast majority of the 3.3 million articles on Wikipedia. And I can't figure out why anyone would care if it was kept for a while.) -- llywrch (talk) 22:32, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
We do have a duty of care to living people, in three months when this person is happily forgotten and back to living his private life then our hosting a biography about this single reported issue in his life may not be the best thing for him. He has a right to our following our guidelines in an attempt to protect him and not being like a free web host that creates articles about such single issues in not notable peoples lives, or even worse anyone that three citations can be found and all similar so called viral internal issues that users find interesting Off2riorob (talk) 22:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, there needs to be a much stricter enforcement of WP:BLP1E. This can get out of hand very quickly if all one needs to do is get a little press, and BOOM, theres a wikipedia article all about that person. I fear that a trend may begin to evolve in which people start doing crazy things just to get into wikipedia. The only way to combat this would to strictly enforce WP:BLP1E.--Jojhutton (talk) 23:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect, I would say the last thing Slater is concerned about at this moment is an article about him on Wikipedia. For example, a SWAT team had been sent to arrest him for his activities. And if I remember the latest tv news story about him correctly, he was facing felony charges. Other people have overreacted about his antics who can hurt him worse physically & monetarily than an inaccurate Wikipedia article -- llywrch (talk) 23:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just because other bad things are happening to him does not mean that we should ignore our policies and host an article about him. I do appreciate that he may well have presently other worries, but in a few months these people are eaten by titillating society and because we allow our policies to be hijacked by the viral attention are stuck with hosting the poor guys single notable act forever and a day. Off2riorob (talk) 00:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So our policies dictate that we protect people from their own stupid actions? And even if the article is removed & all charges dismissed, in a few month when Slater starts looking for a new job, potential employers will remember what he did & decide whether it is worth their while to interview him. He made his bed; he can sleep in it. -- llywrch (talk) 03:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Re the suggestion that Slater has bigger problems than this article: Currently, that is true. But what about in two or ten years time? After the legal processes about this one-day wonder have passed, he may go to a job interview where the interviewer is reading this article. Of course Slater will always feature in archives of blogs and gossip aggregators, but Wikipedia has very high Google impact and is often considered important in the real world. We do not remove negative material because it might cause trouble for an individual, but we have a responsibility to ensure that BLP articles really do meet notability requirements, particularly when we can see that the article will aggravate the damage for this person. Since the only reason to keep this article is that the incident is awesomely funny (and was therefore widely reported), this BLP fails WP:BIO. Johnuniq (talk) 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Good points (although potential employers who Google his name will be just as likely to find articles from ABC, CBS, NBC, NYT, WSJ, etc. -- I suspect those would be more damaging than a Wikipedia article, and I also suspect that those organizations are not going to remove those articles from their web sites out of concern for Slater's future employability). All the more reason to move the article to JetBlue Airways Flight 1052 and put the focus on the incident, rather than the person. BIO and BLP1E would no longer apply. –BMRR (talk) 04:07, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Has JetBlue suspended the flight number? Does this "incident" fulfill the criteria for inclusion in Lists of aviation accidents and incidents? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:29, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Also notability is not temporary. I have seen the argument lets keep it for not and see. IOts often ends up with a second AFD and a well if he was famous then he still is now approach. What is the point of crystal if we ignore it?Slatersteven (talk) 12:30, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
LOL! Steven Stater *really* wants the article about that other Steven Slater to get deleted! I guess as long as there's an article with that name on Wikipedia it could be be hard to live it down ;-) -Helvetica (talk) 14:10, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This is a textbook case of someone only known for one event. Just because somebody had received a burst of reports for a single minor action, that doesn't mean we should write an article about them. This mania for writing about previously unknown people who are thrust into the headlines has to stop! This isn't remotely like a proper biography, it's a wide-eyed "he said, she said" account of somebody losing their rag. (I think he's superawesometastic, for anyone about to wheel out WP:IDONTLIKEIT). Fences&Windows 02:30, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snowball no consensus - and in general, it looks to me like trying to delete a "fifteen-minuter" after only ten minutes is just an exercise in masochism and can be expected to have this result. Wait the full fifteen minutes, then move to delete. --99.245.206.188 (talk) 04:05, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you should become familar with WP:BLP1E before coming to a conclusion.--Jojhutton (talk) 04:10, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am familiar with it. I'm just saying. You AfD immediately, you get a mess. You AfD later, it goes away with much less fuss. This is my limited experience, it is not statistically significant, not endorsed by the Wikimedia foundation, no purchase required, must be legal drinking age, etc etc. --99.245.206.188 (talk) 04:26, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per NOM. I was reading about the event in the news and can't believe I found an article for it on Wikipedia. While the article did make more sense and laid out the events better than a press report, I couldn't believe it was on Wikipedia. It has received an enormous amount of press but that is a media frenzy. People hailed him as a working-class hero but passenger's say he was the rude one, so the fervor will probably die down. Unless something significant, like a major change in JetBlue's policy, Steven Slater t-shirt sales hit 5 million, etc, I see no reason for the article to be on Wikipedia. --NortyNort (Holla) 06:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - and strike out/ignore the ten or so first votes, as they break the ten minute rule. If someone or something gets his AfD started hours before he even hits the evening news, then he may be truly notable! Revisit issue in about a year or so. Maybe by then we can move this to Slaterism. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
??What is the ten minute rule? I've never heard it before and I can't find anything on it. Being technical and pedantic,the first vote was made over 20 minutes after the AFD went live. GainLine ♠ ♥ 11:14, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it was only invented by 99.245.206.188 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) about 300 minutes ago. It refers Andy Warhol's "15 minutes of fame." You should not start an AfD before someone's first fifteen minutes of fame is over - worse yet, if it has not even started. Wait till after the evening news. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:18, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 6

  • Comment - It has become obvious now. --A3RO (mailbox) 13:59, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't you vote already? I'm not the most up-to-date on Wikipedia policies, but it's my understanding that you're only supposed to make *one* bold "keep" or "delete" vote. Everything there after should be labeled (if at all) as a comment. Helvetica (talk) 14:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You are only allowed to vote once. And yes he has already voted, I would susgest this vote is struck.Slatersteven (talk) 14:23, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
See [4] and [5] --A. B. (talk • contribs) 15:01, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I went and struck out the second vote under Arbitrary Section Break 4, which leaves only the user's original vote up higher on the page. A3RO, please remember to only vote once or it will seem like you are trying to vote-stack. SilverserenC 16:19, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It took 4 people to say the same thing? --A3RO (mailbox) 16:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently so. :D SilverserenC 16:42, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This does appear to have become drunk airline stewards wigs out and throws a wobbler story with no wider significane then that. Oddly then part about Jetblues actions which is far more interesting and important seems to be being ignored in the frenzy over a stroppy steward.Slatersteven (talk) 14:04, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's under dispute whether or not he was drunk before he wigged out. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 19:14, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thats the problom wiht pages about ongoing evetns, we don't know the final outcome. If they were some earth shatering news sstory there might bne some justification for it. its not its just some bloke throwing his rattle out of the pram (at best). also his status as a folk hero is in dispute.Slatersteven (talk) 19:39, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (and if necessary when close the debate at the appropriate time as no consensus) - This event is clearly notable given the widespread coverage and the fact that so many people have responded here indicates white spread interest on Wikipedia. However there is no article on the event itself. It looks like there has been some ping pong with JetBlue Airways Flight 1052. Given the complexity it deserves a stand alone article rather than merginging into flight attendant, flight rage or Jet Blue. Editors are making a good faith effort to flesh out the story. People quoting Wikipedia:Notability (people)#People notable only for one event seem to be quoting the headline and not the graph which says When an individual is significant for their role in a single event, it may be unclear whether an article should be written about the individual, the event or both. In considering whether or not to create separate articles, the degree of significance of the event itself and the degree of significance of the individual's role within it should be considered. The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person. However, as both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles become justified. There is no policy that prohibits writing about an event that has received widespread coverage. Since we do not have an article on the event then the most logical space would be Steven Slater. I think anybody looking for information on the case will look for "Steven Slater" and not "nutty flight attendant at Jet Blue" and certainly almost nobody would look for the flight number. The precedent on this article to me seems to be Joe the Plumber.Americasroof (talk) 20:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment, this guy Antoine Dodson had lots of keep I like him votes and was still this week AFD deleted as a one event, he has a million views on the tinternet and is at number three in one of the download charts is an internet meme whatever that is, he has more claim to wikipedia notability and he was deleted, this guy should be deleted also. Off2riorob (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. You say he "had lots of keep I like him votes and was still this week AFD deleted as a one event." Could you please post a link to the archived AFD discussion which had all those "keep I like him votes"? For some reason I couldn't seem to find it...Funny, huh?! -Helvetica (talk) 22:29, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure its relevant (and I was involed).Slatersteven (talk) 22:51, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The difference between that AfD and this one is that most of the Keep votes in this discussion are actually using policy-based rationales. For example, the Keep vote right above your comment. SilverserenC 22:55, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The more I look at this person and I look at the coverage in the citations and the world wide reporting of this person and if the article is kept tidy and well cited, I still support a name change but I could vote comment keep . Off2riorob (talk) 00:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom, definite BLP1E. GregJackP Boomer! 02:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Here we have just an idiot who got drunk and slid out of a plane. The media overdid the coverage that will blow over soon. In no way does this one-event moron deserve an article. Reywas92Talk 15:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment and Request: A user has moved/renamed the article to Steven Slater air rage incident. As a result, it appears that the article is no longer protected from anonymous IP vandals. Before it was moved/renamed, anonymous IP edits had to be confirmed by reviewers. Could an admin please fix this? Thanks. –BMRR (talk) 21:58, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have reverted the undiscussed page move (it actually didn't require admin privileges), but the page protection is an unrelated issue. As can be seen from the log, the protection was temporary and has expired. If vandalism persists, you should request an extension of the protection at WP:RFPP. Favonian (talk) 22:04, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I didn't realize that it had expired. The vandalism certainly hasn't stopped, so it should continue to be protected. –BMRR (talk) 22:08, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point. Article has been protected for another week. Favonian (talk) 22:18, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This is pretty much what BLP1E was designed for. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:09, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The event is notable. Therefore since Slater was the event, his article is kept. Donald Schroeder JWH018 (talk) 02:50, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as a classic BLP1E case. This guy didn't do anything so earth-shattering that he deserves his own article; maybe a brief mention somewhere, but not an entire page. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Nonotable person, nonnotable event. But read this before deleting on the grounds that the media overdid the coverage and BLP1E. Take This Job and Shove It: JetBlue's Steven Slater isn't the only one: why more and more American workers are unhappy. People, incidents, words, can become notable for reasons that have nothing directly to do with them and everything to do with a resonance they strike with key issues that had until them lacked a notable vehicle of expression. Its the kind of notability that gives a successful catchphrase notability--and a place in Wikipedia. Steven Slater and his actions on JetBlue Airways Flight 1052 has that kind of notability. --LittleHow (talk) 05:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong delete WP:BLP1E, this is no John Hinckley, Jr.. J04n(talk page) 14:48, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Along the lines of what LittleHow wrote, the incident has been something of a proverbial "lightning rod." There were millions of people who wanted to do something dramatic like this but hadn't - either because they couldn't or (depending on your perspective) because they had too much patience and self-control and/or too little cajones. A lot of analysis has been published as to the greater meaning of the event - such as the one LittleHow linked to, and this one Before flying was bad: My glory days as a flight attendant. The incident touches on a lot of issues - including: the current state of the economy (with wage stagnation, job insecurity, etc.), the conditions of workers in service-industry jobs, the current state of air-travel (including the stress resulting from all the post 9/11 security measures), and sexual orientation/homophobia (Slater is among the first gay people to be considered a folk-hero by millions of straight people, though much of the backlash against him has had homophobic overtones.) So for these reasons, the incident is notable and relevant to sociology, history, economics, and other related areas of study. Much analysis of these issues has already been published in very reliable and noteworthy sources, and much more is likely to follow - especially with the trial, which is scheduled to start next month. Helvetica (talk) 17:44, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This is ubiquitous, it would be silly not to have an article about it. The incident's widespread fame overrides BLP1E. Don't object to renaming if necessary. Gamaliel (talk) 18:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep This has gone beyond WP:BLP1E. Perhaps he is not John Hinckley, Jr. -- Steven Slater did't try to assassinate a president.. but he has made ripples around the world by leaving his employment in a manner that is unique, exceptional, and inspiring. Peggy Noonan: We pay them to Be Rude to Us. Steven Slater is now an icon and, in all honesty, will have a greater cultural legacy than John Hinckley, Jr.. There are thousands of relevant news stories about Steven Slater and Wikipedia has always maintained exceptional coverage of Air-related incidents; how would this not be an air-related incident worthy of coverage? — Twomper84 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

  • Speedy close, and keep for now We're obviously not going to get a consensus and editors are unlikely to change sides for philosophical reasons. As for me, I find that the article is well-developed and sourced. If this article is to be deleted, it is not now since the events are too fresh to assess the impact this will have on the industry and laws. —CodeHydro 18:48, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Fortunatly consensus is not a vote, but based on arguments by both sides of the issue. As WP:BLP1E supercedes the only two arguments used as keep, which are WP:BIO and WP:RS. This is the whole reason why wikipedia has WP:BLP1E.--Jojhutton (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, "consensus" in this case is based on 130 kilobytes of rubbish (and counting). Nothing against any individual comment or commentator, just that collectively, it's a waste and a general embarassment to Wikipedia. --192.75.48.150 (talk) 19:55, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just shouting "BLP1E" does not achieve the deletion of an article about a person or their actions or an event which has gained worldwide notability in thousands of instances of significant coverage by independent and reliable sources, such as the present [5 thousand plus references at Google New3s for Steven Slater. Otherwise we would have deleted Joe the Plumber, Balloon Boy, and Chesley Sullenberger, all of whose articles survived AFD, along with numerous crime/criminal/victim articles. Edison (talk) 02:44, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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