Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sen no Shōan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep JERRY ^talk _contribs 05:43, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sen no Shōan

Delete 1 1/2 years as a 1 sentence stub with no sources, that pretty much sums it up. TJ Spyke 07:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - nn as is fails WP:BIO. plenty of time was allowed to source references if available so no need to keep it any longer. Sting_au Talk 07:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Very weak keep appears non-notable, but could conceivably be expanded into a better article about the Japanese tea ceremony, where it could be merged. If no further editing takes place, then by all means should be deleted. docboat (talk) 10:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I have no problem giving an article time. However, this article was created back in July 2006 and has recieved a total of 7 edits (with 1 being the AFD tag getting added and 1 being me adding the unreferenced tag, plus the original creation of the page). TJ Spyke 19:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —Quasirandom (speak) 19:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: It would be helpful if WikiProject Japan were to get involved here, as almost certainly all the sources would be in Japanese. Not to mention if the rest of the material from the Japanese Wikipedia article were translated into this one. —Quasirandom (speak) 19:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I note that WP:NOEFFORT is listed as an argument to be avoided in AfD. —Quasirandom (speak) 19:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: According to the Japanese article, he was a step son of Sen no Rikyu by his mother's marriage to Rikyu. Then he got married to his step sister, Rikyu's daughter Okame and had a son named Sen no Sotan. Does this help? Oda Mari (talk) 20:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Can't say it helps me, since those names mean nothing to me either. It feels like something significant about these people is supposed to be evident, but isn't being stated. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. You do know that right now this article quite easily meets A7 NN-BIO by not asserting significance of its subject? Simply being remembered from hundreds of years ago isn't an assertion of notability in itself - or is it?--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 13:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Actually I do think that being remembered from hundreds of years ago is an assertion of notability. It's certainly better than the standard which applies to many of the articles about TV episode or computer game related subjects, which seems to be that they are remembered from hundreds of minutes ago. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd argue that being named a master of any art or craft counts as an assertion of notability, especially for something as culturally significant as the tea ceremony. Whether it's enough notability for Wikipedia, and whether it has been demonstrated, is another matter, but I don't think it qualifies under A7. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pending further information to demonstrate his historical significance, ~~delete~~. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like I !voted too soon: Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles's references do seen to demonstrate that Sen no Shōan was a major master in the development and transmission of the tea ceremony. Notable figure, so keep for expansion. —Quasirandom (talk) 18:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I added the following references to the article: Sen Sotan and URASENKE TRADITION OF TEA. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 17:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
'Keep based on the added sources. Edward321 (talk) 15:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. He is a Japanese tea master of some significance. Both major Japanese dictionaries (Kojien and Daijirin) have an entry for him. Japanese Wikipedia has an article. There's no reason to delete this. Bueller 007 (talk) 15:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I have moved the article to "Sen Shōan", as this is the reading that the Japanese dictionaries use. Bueller 007 (talk) 17:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I think this is pretty clear now. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. His name is notable enough to be found in major Japanese dictionaries. --Saintjust (talk) 02:59, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.