Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of current ISKCON sannyasis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 04:11, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of current ISKCON sannyasis

Delete - WP:OR list based of mostly non-notables, not supported by decent sources. A fork from other lists of ISKCON members. Reference is made to blogs sites and otherwise disputed sources. Wikid ^as© 08:16, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hinduism-related deletion discussions. -- -SpacemanSpiff^{Calvin‡Hobbes} 17:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, plus, compare to List of Catholic priests, all blue linked. if this list was trimmed to notable members only, it would probably duplicate the List of ISKCON members and patrons. if not duplicated, then merge the contents with this list. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 18:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Agree with the above completely. Eusebeus (talk) 20:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Disclosure: I am primary author. WP:BIO Topic is notable in itself as it is significant and interesting, both in general and within the assigned category. Blue names are all notable. Red names: WP:SALAT all are notable within Category:International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I think this article falls under WP:WPLIST#Incomplete_lists and that is why I have tagged it for Expand list. I think the red names are safe to include per WP:LSC - one would expect to see all these names on this list, each member is verifiably a member of the listed group (can add sources given some time) and it is reasonable to expect an article should be forthcoming in the future. Notability of all names cannot be compared to a list of cardinals or catholic priests as English Wikipedia would naturally contain more data on Catholic cardinals than on Vaishnav sannyasis, and Wikipedia recognises its need to expand Hindu Vaishnav content WP:HINDU/V. WP:PSTS primary source may be used to support content in the article but does not contribute towards proving the notability of the subject and also it may be used to only make descriptive claims i.e. the names in the list. No analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims have been made about information found in a primary source. Not a fork as List of ISKCON members and patrons includes non-sannyasis and past sannyasis, its purpose is different and it is not a duplicate. Reference to blog removed. Also compare List of Ayatollahs with List of Grand Ayatollahs - there is significant overlap yet both articles are valid as the List of Ayatollahs contains non-Grand Ayatollahs.--Tintomat0es (talk) 21:29, 8 September 2009 (UTC). Added secondary sources for most red names.--Tintomat0es (talk) 14:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC). Added sources for all remaining red names.--Tintomat0es (talk) 10:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Just as notable as any of the lists listed at Lists of patriarchs, archbishops, and bishops, and reasonably well sourced.--UltraMagnus (talk) 16:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note - the above two arguments should be ignored, because 'other stuff exists' is not a valid reason, but is often used. Wikid ^as© 07:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note No logical argument should be ignored. WP:OSE can be used effectively to assess precedence and consistency. Comparison to other lists of religious leaders provides an important insight into the general notability of the concept. There is precedence in usage of the inclusion of names in various finite lists of religious leaders in order to make Wikipedia comprehensive; it serves no useful purpose to endlessly argue over the notability of a minority of these items. Most of the leaders are notable within the category of ISKCON, yet many do not have articles due to WP:BIAS#Biographies - this is one reason why WP:HINDU/V was created.--Tintomat0es (talk) 20:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep a notable, if foreign, body of priests. All unverified members should be removed from the list, perhaps to its talk page. Only a weak keep because I would like to see sources describing the body as a whole, instead of using them only to verify individual members. Them From Space 02:53, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- @ThemFromSpace: I have added sources for all red names. Blue names have sources on their individual pages. The only source currently available describing the whole list is the official ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry website. Such a source may serve to support content as I mentioned above.--Tintomat0es (talk) 10:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note - Sannyasis in ISKCON are not priests. There is no independent source to even suggest there is a notability to it. There are NO sources describing body as a whole. Wikid ^as© 14:05, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Excellent reference probably not available anywhere else, let alone in English. --AStanhope (talk) 03:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note - All and certainly main sources on ISKCON are in English and not in any other language such as Hindi, even its Governing Body annual minutes; and any form of communcation in ISKCON is in English. All scholarly studies and media coverage of ISKCON are in English. None of these sources describe such body as 'sannyasis of ISKCON', since sannyasa is just a stage that is awarded to a preacher or a preist, it is not a position. Wikid ^as© 14:05, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.