Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph Hinton (composer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:03, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Hinton (composer)

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I can't find anything online about him except an entry in an italian almanac which describes him as "January 1, 1862, Wednesday born in Claydon (Buckinghamshire) the liturgical composer and organist Joseph Harold Hinton" and apparently according to the book referenced he was an organist. Does that make him notable? 🍺 Antiqueight ^confer 17:02, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Unable to locate any secondary coverage. Sulfurboy (talk) 17:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Question - What about the source that is actually in the article footnotes: David Baptie Musical Scotland, Past and Present: Being a Dictionary of Scottish Musicians from about 1400 Till the Present Time, 1894 p80 "HINTON, JOSEPH HAROLD In 1882 Mr. Hinton was appointed resident music-master at Blair Lodge School, which in 1885 he left on obtaining the situation of organist to Hyndland Church, Hillhead, Glasgow (chiefly through the influence of John Inglis, Esq.), where he still is." an extensive 100 word dictionary entry? And neither of the above editors could find it in the article? In ictu oculi (talk) 20:08, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks but if you look you'll see I mention that in my note.-- 🍺 Antiqueight ^confer 21:00, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah that is true, "and apparently according to the book referenced" - however both the Scottish biographical dictionaries make reference to him as a "composer" though, even if 5 published opus isn't anything spectacular. I'm still wondering why the burning need to delete a minor Scottish composer who has entries in 2 Scottish musical biographical lexicons? In ictu oculi (talk) 11:47, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At the time of the AfD the book referenced said " HINTON, JOSEPH HAROLD ..of organist to Hyndland Church, Hillhead, Glasgow (chiefly through the influence of John Inglis, Esq.), where he still is." and it was the only reference. I searched on line and found the other comment which I included here. This didn't seem like notability but I wasn't sure so I asked that question. There is no burning need to delete a Scottish composer- I simply couldn't find anything notable about him and there was nothing in the article to indicate it.-- 🍺 Antiqueight ^confer 12:26, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 07:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 07:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 07:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Not hugely notable but I think the sources noted above are enough to warrant inclusion per guidelines about substantial coverage in reliable independent sources. Candleabracadabra (talk) 12:37, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep minor notability only but not NN. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:05, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the sources are not good.

1. Reading the first couple pages of Musical Scotland, Past and Present it's apparent this is not a great source for determining notability. The author admits many of the entries are "exceedingly humble description" and seems to have included everyone "lest any deserving musician be omitted." It is an indiscriminate catalog of everyone in Scotland who did anything professionally related to music.
2. Music for the People is a reprint of program flyer information published for the International Exhibition of Glasgow (1888). It is a primary source, like if someone played at the Met and the pamphlet handed out to the audience with the short bio in the back about that evening's artist. At best this source shows Hinton performed as an organist at the exhibition, but based on the large number of other artists it's not clear this would pass WP:ARTIST #4D.
3.The "Catalog of Copyright Entries Library of Congress" and "The British Almanac" don't appear to be significant sources.

I would be more apt to Keep if there were modern sources in addition to these but don't see anything. (please reply below refer to the numbers above) -- Green Cardamom (talk) 18:06, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The sources are there. This is a valuable stub, and all the more valuable because he's not exactly the flavour of the month. Andrewa (talk) 05:31, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep per WP:BARE - just as an organist. Church organists used to be big deals in the Victorian age. Once notable, usually they are always notable. Bearian (talk) 16:50, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's the problem, the sources don't show he ever was notable. One is a catalog of nearly every person involved in music professionally in Scotland (or, is everyone in that book notable when even the author said many of the entries are of "exceedingly humble description" ie. non-notable); the second source is a show flyer which shouldn't be allowed into evidence, it's a primary source. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 17:22, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 01:46, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He also has an entry in Brown and Stratton British musical biography: a dictionary of musical artists, authors and composers, born in Britain and its colonies, p. 200. Voceditenore (talk) 18:31, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been notified to WikiProject Classical music. Voceditenore (talk) 19:39, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

True though that appears to be from Baptie's list according to the preface rather than from another source.-- 🍺 Antiqueight ^confer 21:43, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Baptie is one of the many sources they used, but that is immaterial. All biographical dictionaries use material from previous ones—they're tertiary sources. The fact that he has entries in two such works confers enough notability to keep this article. I suspect more information about him could be found by looking at Scottish newspaper archives from the period, which are not online. Voceditenore (talk) 08:31, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.