Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glen Park, Toronto

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Move?. Or quite honestly, mess, but what the consensus appears to be is that there should be an article with this information and that this information should possibly live at Yorkdale-Glen Park. If I'm incorrect in this assessment, please ping me. After a month here, we don't need DRV. Star Mississippi 02:29, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Glen Park, Toronto

Glen Park, Toronto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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• Delete: Not corroborated by external sources. See article's talk page for more information. User:FortUser (orginal nominator)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Canada. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:40, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - The city recognizes Yorkdale-Glen Park as a neighbourhood (see [1]). Yorkdale-Glen Park was redirected to Glen Park, Toronto here way back in 2009 by User:SimonP. Perhaps the names for these neighbourhoods were different 14 years ago. 09:37, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Check the City of Toronto's Yorkdale-Glen Park map again. The part of the "Glen Park neighbourhood" east of the Allen Expressway is not part of Yorkdale-Glen Park. The City of Toronto groups it with Lawrence Manor and the part of Lawrence Heights east of the Allen in Englemount Lawrence. See [2]. Your source is not valid corroboration in my opinion. FortUser (talk) 16:47, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - The Yorkdale-Glen Park neighbourhood boundaries only enscapulate part of the "Glen Park neighbourhood" (west of the Allen Expressway). The "neighbourhood" itself is not recognized by its locals (myself included) and other Torontonians unlike nearby Lawrence Manor, Lawrence Heights, or Forest Hill. Due to WP:NOR, we can't make up a neighbourhood uncorroborated by secondary sources. If we used relatively obscure official neighbourhoods, the well-known Lawrence Heights would have to be deleted. In conclusion, we are in quandary. The information about the area should be kept, but the question is where. Please note this is my first deletion nomination. If I'm unaware of a certain solution, please propose it. FortUser 15:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:52, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 08:48, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - looking in recent Toronto Star articles, they frequently refer to Yorkdale-Glen Park. As such this is a very likely search term. And while we could redirect to North York, or Toronto, the existing article is better. We should find better references - but articles that can be improved shouldn't be at AFD. The only question in my mind, is why the article isn't called Yorkdale-Glen Park; but the redirect at least mitigates that. Nfitz (talk) 18:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. Just a note that the nominator here is FortUser and the talk page they refer to is the article talk page.

If any editor is proposing a Redirect or Merge, you need to specify the target article. Closers can't come up with this themselves or it's a Supervote. Also, there is a suggestion to Rename this article. If you support this option, then vote to Keep this article and then a page move can be discussed on the article talk page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:01, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect to Yorkdale-Glen Park. WP:GEOLAND sets a really low bar for keeping articles about places, but still, despite this location existing in Canada where we would expect English-language sources to report on it, I can find nothing from my searches. The only sources in the article are poor. One uses Yorkdale-Glen Park, the other is a school brochure. So therefore I think let's delete it. But maybe Yorkdale-Glen Park could scrape by, but still probably not. Does it pass WP:GEOLAND because it appears in crime stats? I think not, that's still not what WP:GEOLAND needs something more that database contents. So probably delete this, there is nothing worth saving here. If someone felt that it should redirect to Yorkdale-Glen Park, then I'd want to see them commit to immediately add something about Yorkdale-Glen Park, maybe drafity it to that and then move to main space once it had something. Sorry, I realise this is not a clear !vote so if you are not sure how to treat this opinion, treat it as a delete. CT55555(talk) 17:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Do not redirect. Redirection poses a problem, because Yorkdale-Glen Park includes most of Lawrence Heights but not the portion east of the Allen Expressway, which is well-recognized as part of Lawrence Heights. Redirecting would pose an internal contradiction. Is the portion of Lawrence Heights (the bulk of the neighbourhood) part of Yorkdale-Glen Park or Lawrence Heights? If internal consistency isn't a problem, show examples of an area simultaneously recognized as part of two neighbourhoods.
  FortUser (talk) 01:53, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

   Redirect. The Lawrence Heights article itself says that it is part of Yorkdale-Glen Park. I think redirect is the best option. We should also make an Englemount-Lawrence article to cover the eastern part of "Glen Park neighbourhood." If there is a colloquial neighbourhood in part of its area, a brief summary about it should be given and the reader should be redirected to the colloquial neighbourhood's page. FortUser (talk) 02:04, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
   We could even do this throughout Toronto. Any residential area not in a neighbourhood on Wikipedia should be mentioned in an article about the City of Toronto's official neighbourhood containing that residential area. This could take a lot of work, though.  FortUser (talk) 02:04, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I think the consensus is that Glen Park, Toronto should be deleted or renamed. User:Nfitz, User:CT55555, the annonymous commenter and I agree. There is no dissenter who has defended the Glen Park name. Let's get this page deleted and archived for now and talk about redirecting later. FortUser (talk) 01:53, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• By my count, User:FortUser, you've now voted 4 times - and with 3 different choices. You need to strikeout three of those! For the records, using the quick Google search I linked above, the subject was very notable - but I haven't done a deep dive into the content. Nfitz (talk) 03:11, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Your comment above talked about sources referring to Yorkdale-Glen Park, not Glen Park. Therefore, how can we keep a geographic landmark not corroborated by other sources? We should make a Yorkdale-Glen Park article and delete this one. FortUser (talk) 23:01, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nfitz is correct, User:FortUser, and I have struck your duplicate votes. You can only issue one vote. Also, this AFD will be as open as long as it needs to be. You can't rush the process so please stop issuing orders. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:10, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My bad. I'm new to Wikipedia. Now I know for the future. FortUser (talk) 23:01, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why, User:FortUser would you delete this article, rather than just renaming it? Nfitz (talk) 02:32, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The boundaries for Yorkdale-Glen Park are different then this "Glen Park" neighbourhood. I'm all in favour of migrating some of the content but not all of it. We have to (a) reference Lawrence Heights in a sub-section, (b) write about the part north of Lawrence but west of Dufferin and (c) delete all information about the part of this "Glen Park" neighbourhood east of the Allen Expressway. It's a whole different ball game. FortUser (talk) 21:59, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me, then, User:FortUser that the most sensible place to leave it is here. How much of this "Glen Park" area is outside of "Yorkdale-Glen Park"? Nfitz (talk) 17:05, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Around 1/3rd (the area between the Allen and Bathurst). Similarly, the entire northern Yorkdale-Glen Park (the area north of Lawrence), which is around half of Yorkdale-Glen Park, is not in the Glen Park neighbourhood. It's too different for a rename. FortUser (talk) 20:58, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Update: There are two sources where the Glen Park neighbourhood is mentioned that I found:

° Neighbourhood Guide.^[1] Despite being mostly accurate it does invent the neighbourhood of The Woods. ^[2]. Furthermore, it extends Downsview's southern boundary to Lawrence omits the portion of Clanton Park south of Wilson. ^[3]. It also extends Newtonbrook to Dufferin. Such an error-prone source should not be considered.

° Toronto Star ^[4]. The neighbourhood name is only mentioned once in the article without clear borders. Furthermore, the writer probably got the name from Neighbourhood Guide, Google Maps, or here (a case of circular referencing).

Relator websites (e.g. Redfin) do not use the Glen Park neighbourhood.

Therefore, I recommend deleting this article and creating a Yorkdale-Glen Park article which references this area. FortUser (talk) 00:54, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.