Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gina de Venecia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. From the vote count, this seems like an easy keep. However, a large potion of the comments are not particularly strong. Several of the votes simply assert that the subject is notable, or point to a Google News search and say that establishes notability. However, there are a few keep votes are quite strong and back up their views with specific links and evidence. My analysis of the discussion lends me to weigh those votes heavily enough to close this as keep. NW (Talk) 18:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gina de Venecia

Gina de Venecia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article about a non-notable person. User234 (talk) 01:10, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do honorary doctorates estabilish notability? Are those honorary doctorates themselves notable awards, as set forth by WP:ANYBIO? I would argue that they are not, in and of themselves. If that were the case, any one who gets an honorary doctorate for any commencement speech at any higher level educational institution would be notable and thus be eligable for an article. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 10:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • and see also this Google News archive search. -- Eastmain (talk) 01:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak Keep. It its current state the article needs additional references to establish notability via WP:BIO. Position as Speaker of House of Representatives, would make notable, however, with verification as it stands now it is not going to stand. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 02:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per Eastmain. MikeHobday (talk) 06:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep. I haven't read the article as a whole, but Gina de Vencia is not only former House Speaker of the Philippines' wife, but she is also a Filipino actress. That makes her notable.--JL 09 q?c 07:38, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As an actress does she meet the criterea set forth in WP:ENT? She doesn't even have an entry in IMDB from what I can find. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 10:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep per everyone. Gina De Venecia is notably here in the Philippines. She supported her husband during the 1998 Presidential election on her husband's bid as presidential candidate.ApprenticeFan talk contribs 10:15, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed my mind to Strong Delete, as the article stands as of this posting. Being married to someone who is notable doesn't make that individual notable themselves; see WP:BIO#Invalid criteria and WP:NOTINHERITED. The book referenced only mentions her by name three times. Furthermore, the other article referenced is actually this article, which allows you to read the entire article. In it the subject of the article is named twice, and the main topic of it isn't the subject of the article that is AFD'd but a program of a foundation which the subject is a part of. Therefore, neither of can be considered in depth of the subject, and because there isn't additional references, it fails the primary criterea set forth in WP:BIO. Furthermore, the external links are primary sources, or at best not considered usable for verifiability as they fall under WP:SPS. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 10:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Are 2 pages of search results in Google Books good enough? –Howard the Duck 14:00, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
After looking at all the books, not of them would be considered in depth, there could arguably be considered multiple independent sources; however, it is debatable how much each of them move beyond "trivial" in accordance with WP:BIO#Basic criteria. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 16:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
She has hosted a TV program (but I forgot the title and it doesn't have an article), that was based on a long-running radio program that she hosted too. Does that count? –Howard the Duck 16:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It would count, and would mean that she would meet part 1 of WP:ENT, depending on the size of her roll in said program. However, it needs to be referenced via a verifiable reliable source. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well the size of her roll is uh... large. She changes actors and actresses and plot every week (the staff and crew might be constant). That's the style of her program. The thing is it's not my cup of tea and I still can't remember it. But if that's the case, she's notable. –Howard the Duck 04:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Howard, you mean Pira-pirasong Pangarap? --- Tito Pao (talk) 09:10, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno if that's not it. I can't remember or look for it since she doesn't have an IMDB entry. Remember, she's like the Korina Sanchez of the olden days, one of the reasons why JDV married her is to be known nationally. It worked, and still works. Just ask Ralph Recto and Francis Pangilinan. –Howard the Duck 06:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Has she had a "significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.", per WP:ENT? I have found five references to her and the show mentioned by Tito Pao. However, unless she has had significant roles in other notable media, listed in the quote above that they themselves meet notability requirements, she so far still doesn't meet notability per WP:ENT. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 10:38, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep Honorary doctorates from established universities would normally establish notability--they should be considereed as a major award. I'm not 100% sure though in this sort of political setting. DGG ( talk ) 17:11, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • How "major" are these universities? GVSU in my home town is "established" (it's been around a while, it grants thousands of degrees a year) but I don't think an honorary doctorate from there establishes notability. Harvard, probably. Michigan State University, maybe. Central Michigan University? Probably not. GVSU? Not. ++Lar: t/c 23:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
RE: to Howard. I believe her show was something like Manay Gina de Venecia, or Nagmamahal, Manay Gina de Venecia.
I think it was "Pira-pirasong Pangarap" but I'm not convinced that it was the title. I thought it was something else. But evidence points to that direction. –Howard the Duck 17:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
RE: to RightCowLeftCoast. I'll appreciate if AFD discussions are only discussed/redirected here, to reach a consensus.--JL 09 q?c 16:21, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I understand why you want all discussions to continue here, however my attempt was not move the discussion off this project page, but to solicit those users to return to the discussion. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 16:40, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I'm not seeing enough substantial coverage to show notability here, and I do not believe that the honorary doctorates mentioned are notable either. Kevin (talk) 22:34, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Are you really not seeing any substantial coverage amongst the 284 Google News results linked above, many of which have the subject's name in the title? Or are you not looking? Phil Bridger (talk) 22:50, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see a lot of "wife of..." type coverage. Not substantial enough to warrant an article, IMO. Kevin (talk) 23:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
More than half of those articles don't even mention her husband. Unless there is some rule here that women can only be regarded as wives or mothers then it would seem that Gina is notable. Phil Bridger (talk) 00:29, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
RE: to RightCowLeftCoast. As you wrote in my talk page about Gina De Venecia, she is a wife of a politician and had two children (Chris and KC), KC was died in a fire back less than five years ago, just days after Fernando Poe, Jr.'s tragic death. The cause was a fire spread in her room and trapped until fire begins to kill her. ApprenticeFan talk contribs 00:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That is unfortunate, but that doesn't make her notable. As I have stated, there are multiple ways a subject for an article to be considered notable. As an actress, she can fall under WP:ENT. So far she has not meet part one of WP:ENT as it has been stated that she has had a significant roll in only a single Television program, which itself is not notable. Furthermore, neither have been verified by a reliable source. The other criteria that she can be considered notable is via WP:ANYBIO. Now it has been argued that her honorary doctorates establish notability in and of themselves. However, from what I have gotten feedback from the reliable source noticeboard, those honorary degrees do not make her notable themselves, but can contribute to her overall notability. Others have argued that because she is a wife of a notable politician or have X number of google hits, should make the individual notable; however, those are not criteria for notability, see WP:BIO#Invalid_criteria.
Given the two references that are presently on the article, and the external links provided, those that are not primary sources, or fall under WP:SPS, would IMHO fall under trivial coverage of the individual, as the majority focus is on the organization which she is (or was) a head of. That being said her organization under WP:CLUB, is probably notable, however that doesn't automatically mean that she is. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 15:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • weak keep Given the honorary degrees and her work as a television host, I suspect that the main problem finding further sourcing for ENT or BIO is due to the language barrier. JoshuaZ (talk) 01:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
May I ask what language barrier there is? English is the standard language within most professional circles in the Philippines, and from what I am aware of, most (if not all) news media is conducted in both English and Filipino, this being due to the fact that English and Filipino are two that are nationwide, whereas each area/province/island group has their own unique language that is used mainly locally. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. She's received bucket loads of press in the Phillippines in her own right,[1] including a potential run for congress,[2] being part of a human rights delegation to detained soldiers,[3] and TV and radio work[4] including an award-winning drama show.[5] She's not even close to being non-notable.

Fences&Windows 00:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. She is notable. She appears in the news regularly.Samito1050(talk) 03:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gina_de_Venecia&oldid=1137879296"