Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coyote Springs, Arizona (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep and move to Colton House. The discussion come to a general agreement that the NRHP building covered in this article is notable, while the modern subdivision does not. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 11:42, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Coyote Springs, Arizona

Coyote Springs, Arizona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Recently created orphan for an extremely minor community with only one or two sources. Seems very WP:MILL and vaguely promotional. Dronebogus (talk) 14:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arizona-related deletion discussions. Dronebogus (talk) 14:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep community outside Flagstaff, Arizona. Current sourcing passes WP:GNG.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Some clarity about editing intentions here would help, i.e. whether this article will be the place in Wikipedia that the Colton House (significant historic house, site of much community activity and good programs etc.) will be covered, or whether the Colton House will be covered in a not-yet-created section of Museum of Northern Arizona article (to which Colton House currently redirects), or whether it shall be an independent article. It is the kind of place that would clearly be National Register of Historic Places eligible, but maybe there has been too much renovations going on for it to be a stable subject. (Also, as part of nonprofit museum now, there would not be the tax incentives driving many NRHP listings.)

About the Colton House, there are substantial sources, including this from the Arizona Daily Sun, this Facebook page of the Museum of Northern Arizona on "the historic Colton House", and about some music scene there, this about a music residency program and this this about the "Colton House Sessions" (record of music sessions recorded there)

Searches on "Colton House" also turn up that Harold Colter was an archeologist, too, and there are, perhaps confusingly, journal articles such as reported here maybe involving prehistoric pit houses (or maybe those are in different articles in the same publications). And/or maybe there are archeological sites on this property, I dunno.

There's a lot of material, and Wikipedia's coverage of Colton House as a cultural center and architecturally significant place and historic place with important associations, is not sorted yet. I say let Wikipedia's editor(s) creating content here proceed and sort this out, and merge or split or redirect as they see fit. Come back a year from now and bring on your deletionist perspectives, but don't waste their/our time now. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 15:02, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. To be clear, this is a slam-dunk Keep if an editor decides to make this article the location of Colton House topic coverage (temporarily until the deleters go away, or permanently) and makes a couple edits putting "Colton House" in bold and having a large section about it, with a small section for the rest of the development. I note that the previous AFD was essentially about there being nothing there, but now there's a significant development and one clear head-liner, so the arguments for deletion have to be different. Of course that's no problem to say the opposite now. The previous AFD did say something about a spring, could that information be rounded up and added to the current article. Do editors have access to the material of the previous (deleted) article? Maybe this is an obvious Keep on other grounds, in other ways, too, but overall I think this AFD is a waste of time so why not just stop it sooner rather than later. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 15:13, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Doncram, what is the connection between the archaeological site and the article topic? The journal article you linked is about an area "six square miles adjacent to Winona Station, some seventeen miles East of Flagstaff, Arizona" which is a different location entirely and doesn't mention anything about Colton House/Coyote Springs. –dlthewave ☎ 17:03, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for accessing and reporting on that journal article. I was myself reporting that searching on "Colton House" turns up articles like that. I myself don't know if the Coyote Springs resident-archeologist did archeological digs in Coyote Springs itself; it would be nice if you could sort that out. -- Doncram (talk,contribs) 15:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there was no "Coyote Springs" neighborhood at the time when Colton lived there, and your article doesn't say anything about conducting digs at Colton House. I think that it would be odd for an archaeologist to be working on his own property unless he coincidentally owned some sort of historic site. Are there any other articles that you'd like me to check through the Wikipedia Library resources? –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - The sources for Coyote Springs are mainly the routine type of coverage we see for new housing developments; there's not really any lasting coverage beyond the first few years, and nothing discussing it as a community or the people who live there. It's unique in its connection to the Museum of Northern Arizona, but that can be covered in a few sentences at the museum article.

The NRHP listed Colton House is a different matter. The few sources that cover it in detail mention its obvious connection to the Museum of Northern Arizona, but not the Coyote Springs development. I think that this is best covered within the museum article as part of the section about the Coltons, since its historical significance is mainly due to that family. This could eventually be slit into a standlone article for the Coltons if enough content can be written about it. –dlthewave ☎ 17:00, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Skynxnex (talk) 18:13, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - in-depth coverage is in-depth coverage. The current coverage is not just from local papers, and is over the period of several years, so it is sustained.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 18:17, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• For what its worth, it isn't the only Coyote Springs in Arizona; there's one near Prescott Valley, which even has a school named after it. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 18:19, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Oh, btw, just looked at the version deleted in the last AFD: that was for yet another Coyote Springs, up on the Navajo Nation in Apache County by the looks of it. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 18:38, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I agree with the nominator and dlthewave that the sources present are routine coverage and nothing extraordinary for a housing development. Given the connection to the museum, the best solution IMO is merge with Museum of Northern Arizona. I have no objection to creating a separate article for the Colton House which would pass NBUILD as a NRHP-listed property. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:19, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into a new article on the Colton House (item 37 at National Register of Historic Places listings in Coconino County, Arizona). Faily generic housing development, and the coverage is routine stuff about new housing for sale or is associated with the museum and Colton House rather than for standalone notability. Reywas92^Talk 19:21, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I'm glad ppl including Dlthewave figured out that Colton House is in fact already NRHP-listed (as "Coyote Range", which I had not found). It remains that the main Wikipedia coverage of the topic of "Colton House" / "Coyote Range" (which all seem to agree has plenty of RS) could be as a section in this Coyote Springs, Arizona article. There is no requirement that NRHP places get separate, standalone articles, and it is often better to include their main coverage within other articles. It remains that my personal opinion on this AFD is "Keep", leaving it to locally-interested editors to organize the material. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 16:07, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Okay, I've edited the article to do that. It is linked from the "NRHP listings in Coconino County" list-article, etc. It is started with NRHP infobox and NRHP nomination document and other sources, but is marked "under construction", and help developing would be welcome. This AFD should be closed "Keep". It will be decided by editors there whether to keep it under "Coyote Springs, Arizona" name and include section on "Colton House", or to move it to "Coyote Range" or to "Colton House" and include section on other development of the Coyote Springs community. If a person is bent on forcing something upon the locally-interested editor(s), they may open discussion(s) at its Talk page towards forcing a split or a rename. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 16:41, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I support the latter option, the listed house is far more notable than a subdivision of non-historic homes. There shouldn't need to be a separate discussion for that, but thanks for expanding content on the House/Range. Reywas92^Talk 22:54, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What Reywas said. Thanks for the expansion, but that content should be moved to a standalone article or merged with Museum of Northern Arizona. –dlthewave ☎ 14:43, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Reywas and dlthewave. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 12:46, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good, I'm glad you three like it. I think it is enough different from "Museum of Northern Arizona" that it should be kept separate, at least now. Perhaps you saw it after I developed it more and removed the "under construction" tag, and I have gone a bit further since. If this is closed "Keep", I am fine with anyone moving it to "Coyote Range" or "Colton House" while keeping a redirect from "Coyote Springs, Arizona", if they will please revise it to explain (and keeping or revising the hatnote like I put in, mentioning the other Coyote Springs Arizona which gets the most hits in web searching). --Doncram (talk,contribs) 19:53, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 15:01, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep and move to Colton House or Coyote Range. The historic house and property are notable, but the surrounding development is pretty new, and any relevant details about it can be covered in an article on the historic site. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 17:06, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.