Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Conan (dog)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. As things currently stand, we have about 10 keep arguments stating that the topic meets notability guidelines and about 5 delete/merge arguments asserting either that notability is not established or at least not independently from Barisha raid thus creating WP:ONEEVENT concerns, and WP:NOTNEWS. All these are reasonable arguments based on applicable policy/guideline, and they indicate that there is at least no consensus in favour of deletion. The argument on a merge is more murky as most of the keep arguments have not addressed the arguments in favour of a merge/redirect - as noted in the last comment WP:ONEEVENT does apply to notable topics when the topic is notable mainly for its role in one particular event.

On balance this discussion, not having a consensus for deletion but also no clear cut consensus for keeping or merging, is a "no consensus" case although people can continue a merge discussion on the talk page if they so desire. There was also a bit of discussion about whether we know the name of the dog, but it seems like it resolved itself during the course of discussion. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:23, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Conan (dog)

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Conan (dog) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Notability not established. His name being Conan is not even verified (Newsweek alone enough). JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 06:52, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Netherlands-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 06:55, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 06:56, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 06:56, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for now - Worldwide coverage in national press (The Guardian, The Times, Newsweek, Time etc.) goes a long way towards establishing notability. We have two instances of notability (the raid, Trump's dumb joke) so this isn't a WP:1E situation (which is, strictly speaking, only a policy for people and not dogs). Conan is the name that the dog is known by at this point. Sure, there are reasons to be dubious about how likely this is to get sustained coverage, but this is also exactly the kind of dumb thing that people will talk about as an additional topic whenever they discuss the general topic of the raid that killed Baghdadi, which is something they're likely going to discuss for a long time so it's a pass for the ten year rule. Whilst WP:WAX is a bad argument, it is at least instructive to consider the various articles related to winners of the Dickin Medal. FOARP (talk) 08:37, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Meets WP:GNG in that the dog has substantial coverage in reliable independent sources. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:34, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or merge - Entire article could be merged into Barisha raid, as this article will always be a stub. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 14:15, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Technical Keep Really IMHO this should be merged into the larger article. That's something though that should be discussed probably on one or both of the talk pages. It's not a clean delete though.--Cube lurker (talk) 17:01, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete/merge to Barisha raid. NOTNEWS, no notability independent of the event. Reywas92Talk 19:13, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete/merge Not enough independent information know about her as of now to warrant her own wiki page independent of the Barisha Raid. Similar to the Death of Osama bin Laden page, it has a lot of information, including subsections with their own infoboxes, so merge the infobox as well. RopeTricks (talk) 19:40, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep: I'll admit that when I first came across this article, I thought it was funny and I wasn't sure if the dog should have its own page. However, after some consideration, I'm convinced that we should keep this doggo: he was part of a high-profile military operation, the dog received national and international media attention, was repeatedly mentioned by the president, and is the subject of numerous memes online. The dog will visit the White House next week and it's likely that he'll receive some kind of award in the near future (the K-9 Medal of Courage, for example), so I'm sure we'll hear more about this dog. It's also worth considering that there are many articles for dogs which are not nearly as well-known, such as: Governor Moscow, Briergate Bright Beauty, Haymarket Faultless, etc. Johndavies837 (talk) 21:23, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: By the way, the dog's name was confirmed as Conan earlier today. Johndavies837 (talk) 21:27, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Broad international coverage, although there isn't too much information available yet so many sources have the same details. Although we can't use a crystal ball, we are able to use some judgment in that the dog will be in the White House next week and certainly is likely to be given some awards because this was a very high-level military operation. Sadly WP:NOTABILITY does not give much guidance on individual animals, but per other stuff this dog would seem to be in line with many entries at List of individual dogs. --Pudeo (talk) 22:12, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Broad international coverage WP:GEOSCOPE. Also notable now notable forever WP:NTEMP Lightburst (talk) 02:41, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep from Myanmar, Yes...this dog has significant coverage and reliable independent sources in many international news & media. Also appeared in my country's major newspaper [2]. So easily meets WP:GNG. No case was made for deletion and it will would hard to make one as well. What is the community value of these unresearched AfDs? I would like to say nominator to attention seeker. 103.200.134.151 (talk) 15:33, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Just to add to all the elevated policy discussions a personal note: I wanted to check out the dog, and vaguely seemed to recall its name being Conan, so I came on Wikipedia, tried my luck by searching for 'Conan', and sure enough found this article. Now I know more about the said dog. Isn't that, in a nutshell, the point of Wikipedia? DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:42, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Also covered on Zondag met Lubach. (which just goes to show how wide the press coverage is. have we figured out the gender yet btw, which Lubach mostly focused on? Lubach said he asked a vet, who said Conan is a female) I completely fail to see why Conan wouldn't be notable. - Alexis Jazz 12:32, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    He's a good boy. At least that is what most sources say. Newsweek originally called the dog a "female", but issued a correction (which is rare for Newsweek) saying "[t]his story has been updated to correct Conan's gender". The Guardian, which attributed the gender to Newsweek, did not follow the correction. Politrukki (talk) 14:01, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There has been significant coverage, including international sources and even though notability is not temporary, it is very likely there will be even more coverage. Nominator's argument "[h]is name being Conan is not even verified" is irrelevant as if we did not know the dog's name, once the notability has been established – and it has – the article title might as well temporarily be "Dog that chased down an austere religious scholar at helm of Islamic State". Politrukki (talk) 13:52, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge into Barisha raid, where it's worth a paragraph or so. The usual rule for people notable for one event is that we cover the event rather than the person, unless the event is very high profile and the peron's role is very substantial. Admittedly this is about an animal but I think the same rule should apply. The raid is a fairly significant event but I don't think the dog's role is enough to justify a separate article. Furthermore the article is likely to remain a stub more or less indefinitely given that basically all public information about the subject in it (including the fact that he's a good dog). That further suggests a standalone article isn't needed. Hut 8.5 22:08, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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