Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Akatombo

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Subject notability eventually demonstrated, closure at nominator's behest. (non-admin closure) O Fortuna!^{...Imperatrix mundi.} 10:31, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Akatombo

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

dePRODed by creator without addressing the issue(s). Concern was: Does not say enough to indicate what is notable or characteristic about the song. No references. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: an online search through the potential sources indicated reveals only a passing mention of the song among other references to "the big-eared human spirit Akatombo". This topic is probably not even the primary meaning in English, and certainly far too few sources seem to exist to pass WP:GNG. --RexxS (talk) 17:37, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Clear keep. Maybe you guys could just do what I say on the article's talk page? Here it is: "References from Japanese and Chinese Wikipedias: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%B5%A4%E3%81%A8%E3%82%93%E3%81%BC_(%E7%AB%A5%E8%AC%A1) https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B4%85%E8%9C%BB%E8%9C%93_(%E7%AB%A5%E8%AC%A0) I ask that someone translate and transfer the references from those articles". Ethanbas ^(talk) 19:02, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Also, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English_sources. Ethanbas ^(talk) 19:2f, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Ethanbas maybe you as creator could do that yourself rather than ordering us to do it for you. The volunteers are not here to complete your lazy creations and unsourced stubs. Especially as you are paid for a lot of what you do here. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:48, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not paid for this article, or any of the work I've done in the past few months. And I'm not ordering anyone to work on the article. And it's not a lazy creation, and it's not an unsourced stub. Ethanbas ^(talk) 01:23, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The Japanese article (per Google Translate) suggests this is very popular in Japan. I can't do anything with the Japanese sources but have added two English language sources that I dug out. Mortee (talk) 20:57, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- 'Popular' is not automatically notable. A raft of other language sources may be as unsuitable as the regular barrel-scraping for fleeting mentions we get her on en.Wiki. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:48, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - That's true, and I can't evaluate the value of the sources directly, but between them and the English-language mentions I've seen, I'm convinced this is a worthwhile topic Mortee (talk) 02:10, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- (edit conflict) This isn't the Japanese Wikipedia and having an article in another language Wikipedia is not a criterion for inclusion in the English Wikipedia. The first source added, Cultural History Of Postwar Japan, is a brief mention (one sentence) in a 186 page book. The second source is a self-published website, http://dragonflyandjapaneseculture.weebly.com/, not a reliable source. The article still fails GNG: it needs significant coverage in multiple, independent, secondary, reliable sources. --RexxS (talk) 00:58, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Coverage in multiple, independent, secondary, reliable sources exists in Japanese. Ethanbas ^(talk) 01:23, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - I didn't mean to say that having an article on another language Wikipedia warranted inclusion - that way nothing covered in two languages would ever be deleted. I meant that article seemed detailed and to have several references, which suggested our own article could be improved. That fits with WP:BEFORE B6 Mortee (talk) 02:10, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - I should add two things: 1) I didn't say that the sources I'd added so far established notability in themselves; I think they together with the quality of the Japanese article do that. 2) The first reference you mentioned isn't one sentence. It's two sentences, including the claim that it's a "popular children's song", followed by some of the music (in musical notation) followed by credits for the lyrics and tune. Not exactly a dedicated thesis but not quite as trivial as your summary might suggest. Mortee (talk) 02:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Actually a third thing, with apologies for the spam. I said 'two sources' because that's what I'd added when I added the comment, but the second wasn't the Weebly site, it was a book about Chinese film. That's also a brief mention where the song is not the main theme, granted. I just wanted to make this clear. Mortee (talk) 02:39, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:03, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:03, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The article needs help, ~~including citing the claim made about the Schumann melody it supposedly resembles,~~ but the song itself passes notability from having been listed by the Agency for Cultural Affairs and the Japan PTA National Council in 100 Songs of Japan, [1]. -- Softlavender (talk) 02:03, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative searches:

Japanese song title and composer: (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Song title and composer: (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Alt. song title and composer: (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Keep, based on a review of available English/French/Spanish/Portuguese language sources, of which some have been referenced in the article,^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6]^[7]^[8]^[9]^[10]^[11] the inclusion on the list of 100 Japanese songs widely beloved in Japan, from where I have linked to the article, the mention of a few of the arrangements of the song recorded by Western artists, and the existence of Japanese sources, this song easily meets WP:GNG. — Sam Sailor 16:57, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cultura japonesa, São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Curitiba (in Portuguese). Hitz-Berba Editores Associados. 1994. p. 218. Destacamos o nome de Kosaku Yamada, um dos primeiros compositores genuínos. Estudou na ... Compôs várias óperas e músicas instrumentais, mas as mais conhecidas são canções infantis como Akatombo, Machiboke etc. As músicas ... [We highlight the name of Kosaku Yamada, one of the first genuine composers. He studied at ... He composed several operas and instrumental music, but best known are his children's songs as Akatombo, Machiboke etc. The songs ...]
^ Tensei Jingo (1989). 天声人語. Vol. 79. 原書房. pp. 58–. Miki's intimate friend, Kosaku Yamada, put the poem to music. Since then, loved and sung by the Japanese, it has deeply permeated their hearts. In a recent poll, Akatombo was ranked the most loved song among Japanese.
^ Paul Glynn (2012). Réquiem por Nagasaki (in Spanish). Francisco Sanchez-Bayo. pp. 172–. ISBN 978-1-4710-9963-2. A varios poemas de Nagai se les puso música de compositores japoneses renombrados, el más famoso de los cuales fue Kosaku Yamada, conocido y querido en todo el Japón por su extraordinaria composición Aka Tombo, esto es "La ... [Several of Nagai's poems were put to music by renowned Japanese composers, the most famous of which was Kosaku Yamada, known and loved throughout Japan for his extraordinary composition Aka Tombo ...]
^ Revista Chapingo: Serie Ciencias forestales y del ambiente (in Spanish). Vol. 7–9. Universidad Autónoma Chapingo. 2001. pp. 122–. Ésta es una frase de la canción de cuna japonesa más popular "Aka-tombo" (libélula roja) escrita por Rufu Miki y música compuesta por Kosaku Yamada (Mielewcz, 1982; Eda, 1994). [This is a phrase from the most popular Japanese lullaby "Aka-Tombo" (red dragonfly) written by Rufu Miki and with music composed by Kosaku Yamada]
^ 市川健夫; 吉本隆行 (2008). 信州ふるさとの歌大集成: 胸にしみる懐かしい調べ歌い継がれる信州のこころ (in Japanese). 一草舎出版. pp. 17–.
^ The New Records. Vol. 46–48. H.R. Smith Company. 1978. pp. 37–.
^ Paula Scher (1 August 2002). Make It Bigger (Media notes). Princeton Architectural Press. pp. 48–. ISBN 978-1-56898-332-5. AKA TOMBO, with its memories of autumn, is one of the most nostalgic of all Japanese songs. Kosaku Yamada composed songs, orchestral music and operas, as well as fostering the growth of orchestral music and serving as an orchestra conductor. Through the Meiji, Taisho and Showa Eras, he dominated the Japanese orchestral scene. AKA TOMBO is one of three lyric songs by Yamada using verses by Rofu Miki; it was composed in the second year of the Shows Era.
^ Denis Verroust (1991). Jean-Pierre Rampal: un demi-siècle d'enregistrements, de 1946 à 1992 : discographie exhaustive et commentée (in French). La Flûte traversière. pp. 126–.
^ Fanfare. 3-4. Vol. 18. J. Flegler. 1995. pp. 374–.
^ Bonnie C. Wade (13 January 2014). Composing Japanese Musical Modernity. University of Chicago Press. pp. 41–. ISBN 978-0-226-08549-4. ... characteristic of traditional koto music, variation 3 was written "with a bit of a modern touch," while the last (composed when she was twelve years old) was based on the beloved song "Aka tombo" ("Red Dragonfly"), by Kosaku Yamada.
^ William O. Hughes (1981). A concise introduction to school music instruction, K-8. Wadsworth Pub. Co. pp. 77–. ISBN 978-0-534-00897-0. Akatombo (The Scarlet Dragonfly) Words by Rofu Miki Music by Kosaku Yamada Yu - ya - ke ko - ya - ke no A-ka-to - n bo. (end of phrase 2) c1927 by Rofu Miki and Kosaku Yamada. Used by permission of JASRAC, license no. 7912157.

Comment - I think this can be safely kept now thanks to all the work by Sam Sailor and Softlavender despite the fact that AfD is not AE or the WP:RESCUE. I will just point out that my listing at AfD was purely procedural. It was a two-line, unsourced stub at the time. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:58, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep -- Thanks for work fromSam Sailor and Softlavender adding sources, and to Ethanbas for creating the article. Beautiful article and melody! --David Tornheim (talk) 10:15, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[Curitiba1994-1] Cultura japonesa, São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Curitiba (in Portuguese). Hitz-Berba Editores Associados. 1994. p. 218. Destacamos o nome de Kosaku Yamada, um dos primeiros compositores genuínos. Estudou na ... Compôs várias óperas e músicas instrumentais, mas as mais conhecidas são canções infantis como Akatombo, Machiboke etc. As músicas ... [We highlight the name of Kosaku Yamada, one of the first genuine composers. He studied at ... He composed several operas and instrumental music, but best known are his children's songs as Akatombo, Machiboke etc. The songs ...]

[TenseiJingo1989-2] Tensei Jingo (1989). 天声人語. Vol. 79. 原書房. pp. 58–. Miki's intimate friend, Kosaku Yamada, put the poem to music. Since then, loved and sung by the Japanese, it has deeply permeated their hearts. In a recent poll, Akatombo was ranked the most loved song among Japanese.

[Glynn2012-3] Paul Glynn (2012). Réquiem por Nagasaki (in Spanish). Francisco Sanchez-Bayo. pp. 172–. ISBN 978-1-4710-9963-2. A varios poemas de Nagai se les puso música de compositores japoneses renombrados, el más famoso de los cuales fue Kosaku Yamada, conocido y querido en todo el Japón por su extraordinaria composición Aka Tombo, esto es "La ... [Several of Nagai's poems were put to music by renowned Japanese composers, the most famous of which was Kosaku Yamada, known and loved throughout Japan for his extraordinary composition Aka Tombo ...]

[Chapingo2001-4] Revista Chapingo: Serie Ciencias forestales y del ambiente (in Spanish). Vol. 7–9. Universidad Autónoma Chapingo. 2001. pp. 122–. Ésta es una frase de la canción de cuna japonesa más popular "Aka-tombo" (libélula roja) escrita por Rufu Miki y música compuesta por Kosaku Yamada (Mielewcz, 1982; Eda, 1994). [This is a phrase from the most popular Japanese lullaby "Aka-Tombo" (red dragonfly) written by Rufu Miki and with music composed by Kosaku Yamada]

[Takeo2008-5] 市川健夫; 吉本隆行 (2008). 信州ふるさとの歌大集成: 胸にしみる懐かしい調べ歌い継がれる信州のこころ (in Japanese). 一草舎出版. pp. 17–.

[6] The New Records. Vol. 46–48. H.R. Smith Company. 1978. pp. 37–.

[Scher2002-7] Paula Scher (1 August 2002). Make It Bigger (Media notes). Princeton Architectural Press. pp. 48–. ISBN 978-1-56898-332-5. AKA TOMBO, with its memories of autumn, is one of the most nostalgic of all Japanese songs. Kosaku Yamada composed songs, orchestral music and operas, as well as fostering the growth of orchestral music and serving as an orchestra conductor. Through the Meiji, Taisho and Showa Eras, he dominated the Japanese orchestral scene. AKA TOMBO is one of three lyric songs by Yamada using verses by Rofu Miki; it was composed in the second year of the Shows Era.

[Verroust1991-8] Denis Verroust (1991). Jean-Pierre Rampal: un demi-siècle d'enregistrements, de 1946 à 1992 : discographie exhaustive et commentée (in French). La Flûte traversière. pp. 126–.

[9] Fanfare. 3-4. Vol. 18. J. Flegler. 1995. pp. 374–.

[Wade2014-10] Bonnie C. Wade (13 January 2014). Composing Japanese Musical Modernity. University of Chicago Press. pp. 41–. ISBN 978-0-226-08549-4. ... characteristic of traditional koto music, variation 3 was written "with a bit of a modern touch," while the last (composed when she was twelve years old) was based on the beloved song "Aka tombo" ("Red Dragonfly"), by Kosaku Yamada.

[Hughes1981-11] William O. Hughes (1981). A concise introduction to school music instruction, K-8. Wadsworth Pub. Co. pp. 77–. ISBN 978-0-534-00897-0. Akatombo (The Scarlet Dragonfly) Words by Rofu Miki Music by Kosaku Yamada Yu - ya - ke ko - ya - ke no A-ka-to - n bo. (end of phrase 2) c1927 by Rofu Miki and Kosaku Yamada. Used by permission of JASRAC, license no. 7912157.