User talk:Utcursch/archive/6

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archives: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46

Discussions regarding articles are preferred at respective talk pages, so that everybody can participate. Of course, I've no problem with discussions on this page. Please sign your posts (using ~~~~).

Hi thanks for ur message.I have no intrest in entertaining Sarvagnya whatsoever.So for me its let bygones be bygones.Ask Saravagnya to stop bitching and badmouthing against me which he's still doing!Let me again request u to see Belgaon talk page about the tall claims of him of being civil and me being incivil.

But let me request u one more thing..plz take back that sentence about me being a 'more troublemaker'.I am here for justice its very harsh and biased statement against me.I am anything but a vandaliser.I just want to make sure that Maharashtra/Marathi related articles are no defamed.And yeah PLEASE DONT FORGET TO KEEP A CLOSE LOOK ON MY AND SARVAGNYA'S EDITS.Its a earnest request!Plz take it very seriously.I hope u will find a verify the contents of Seuna through a informed editor.

Plz convey Sarvagnya on my behalf that I am not even intrested in talking terms with him so forget about quarrels.If he doesnt provoke me and do anything wrong in Maharashtra/Marathi related article, we might not even confront each other again.And of course since u r a part of our feud its my earnest request again to keep a watch on my and sarvagnya's edits.From this moment I am civil with everyone here and mute with sarvagnya and his friends! Mahawiki 12:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi there,see Maratha_empire page where Mr.Dinesha nd sarvagnya are trying to potray Marathas as 'vandalisers' of South Indian temple through a 'reference' which is perhaps written by a fanatic Kannada writer who has no reliabity whatsoever.

Note that they are doing it purposely so that I get provoked and do something wrong so as to have a bad impression here!I am not being paranoid...I wouild request to follow them carefully.This is utter nonsense and painful for us.Mahawiki 13:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Utcursch, Thank you for that message. I completely agree and bind to your decision on "let bygones be bygones", and let us all look forward about constructive development of Wikipedia.

At this time, in your presence, I would also like to request any and all editors not to use words such as "Kannadi", "Sevooji", "Chatripati" etc. We all need to leave them back and move ahead with developments of articles. Also we all need use the words "Vandalism", "Vandalisers", "Fanatics" etc very carefully and appropriately.

In future, starting from now, if I notice any breach to Wikipedia:Civility, then I would certainly like to bring that into your attention. Thank you and appreciate your efforts on this mediation! - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 13:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello if u r a Maharashtrian,u shall probably know that Kannadi is not a offensive or abusive word.Perhaps KNM will stop objecting it if I use Kanadi instead of Kannadi?I have told these guys many times with citations that Kannadi is a word used to describe speakers of Kannad language.Dont u guys use 'Marathis' when it is 'Maharashtrians' or in fact 'Marathi Manoos' in Marathi?Mahawiki 14:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Mahawiki,

The links provided by you as citations are not really citations.

These two are the links provided by you:

• http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%A1%E0%A5%80&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
• http://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/कन्नड

Admin can explain you better on this. However, here are why they are not considered as citations.

Link #1 given by you: Google search URL. Please note that you have used non-English word search in Google. We are talking in English wikipedia and about how to term something in English. Moreover, just because Google returns results, we cannot consider the search URL itself as citation. You would definitely agree with this because you strongly opposed the usage of "Chatripati Shivaji" by another editor. That editor was pointing you about the google result too. All I am saying here is, your judgement should be consistent with both the words, whether it is "Kannadi" or "Chatripati Shivaji". I donot endorse either of these words/phrases, as they are not commonly used in English and especially there are no Wikipedia articles in those names.

Link #2 given by you: Marathi Wikipedia article for Kannada. Wikipedia to Wikipedia references are considered circular references and are not valid citations. Moreover, as the interwikis clearly show, that article is for Kannada language and not for anything called "Kannadi".

Also, please note that you had already agreed(responding to User:AreJay's request) to use Kannadiga word instead of "Kannadi".

This is English wikipedia, and all the editors here not Maharashtrians. We all need to use the commonly agreed upon term and there is an article existing on the same in English wikipedia, where we are doing this discussion. If you feel uncomfortable using "Kannadiga" word, then feel free to use "Kannada people" or "Karnataka people" or "people from Karnataka" or "Kannada speaking people".

I request the Admin's intervention on this matter. Thanks. - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 01:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

utkarsh, I am still awaiting ur response over my objections about 'me being more troublesome'.With due respect I need to point out that mediator has to get rid of any prejudices and partialities.

Morever see Maratha_empire's talk page.These views are certainly of bad faith.I would also like u to do the needful about Seuna page.Dont forget to ask sarvagnya to stop his bitching.His latest rantings are available at ur archive which are full of lies. Mahawiki 14:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, OK, but if they've got problems, just call them Kannadiga, OK? And they will call you Maharashtrian instead of Marathi. Hmm?

BITCHING?!!

This is atrocious. We are talking about his incivility and he keeps indulging in it even on an admin's own page!! Sarvagnya 16:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Eh he, Bitching is a bad word!

Now people, people, just stop fighting like kids!, we don't want an Wikipedia:Requests for comment for this small issue! utcursch | talk 03:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Bitching is a bad-word?The comments ur writing about me on each and evry admin u know what is that?This is hypocrisy.Whats incivil in it?U want me to address u as a Maharaja?

If u r insisting I wont use the word Kannadi but I wont use the word Kannadiga either.'Kannada speakers' is fine I guess.I hope my fellow 'Kannada speaking' wikipedians will use the word 'Maharashtrians' instead of Marati,Marathis etc.

Dear admin,there shall be no peace until u elaborate ur stand on me being more troublemaker.This is absolutely false.Few users are trying to potray me as a villion and if u dont take back those words I am afraid I wont be able to continue this process.I cant tolerate this injustice.

Morever u havent took any action against Sarvagnya and his friend Dinesh's comments on 'Maratha_empire' talk page.They are unnecessarily provoking us by talking nonsense about Marathas there.These edits are certainly not in good faith and the reason behind this is to provoke me and hence to get extra marks from u.I have agreed to be civil and that doesnt mean i will tolerate any nonsense against Maharashtra/Marathi related articles.

I am sorry but until above things arent clear I would not be able to co-operate.I dont want to plead justice where I am being discriminated of being more incivil than other guy in question. Mahawiki 04:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

• If you feel that "Bitching" is not uncivil, feel free to use it at home, not on Wikipedia. Sarvagnya 05:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep ur suggestions to urself.And wikipedia is not owned by u so cut the crap.To remind u,I have ZERO intrest in conversing with u.So stay away.Mahawiki 11:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The language dispute. You should possibly file an RfC. My interactions with all these users is documented at USer:Bakasuprman/Langwar.Bakaman _Bakatalk 01:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

dear admin, See this edit of KNM and this is what these ppl do and then nag of me being trouble maker.Mahawiki 11:48, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, he was wrong. But you also removed the Kannada script [1] without any discussion, my friend -- Rajnikanth started his career as a Kannada actor and has starred in some Kannada movies too. In short, you both were wrong. Before making such edits, it's better to initiate a discussion on the talk page. utcursch | talk 13:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks admin. - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 14:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

It seems u forgot to see the edit summary where I clearly mentioned why I removed Kannada transliteration.removed kannada script.He was a born-Maharashtrian hence Marathi and he's star in Tamil film industry hence tamil script,why did someone added Kannada script?.Any comments?Mahawiki 15:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The reference provided in the article clearly says he was born in Karnataka. Also right from his childhood he was broughtup in Bangalore and also he started his work as Conductor in Bangalore. As indicated by Admin above, Rajanikanth has acted in more than a dozen of Kannada movies and few of them are superhits.

Also please provide citations for your claims. - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 15:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Another instance of saravgnya's provocation

See it here He is too much curious about the citations of Shivaji Maharaj being great.Ask him to stop his 'bad faith' edits at once.Mahawiki 11:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Mahawiki, if indeed the things asserted are true, then someone should be able to find appropriate verifiable references. Please read WP:Reliable sources. Every editor has the right to remove assertions which are unsourced if they believe that those assertions are inaccurate, or otherwise harm the credibility of Wikipedia. That sarvagnya chooses to add fact or citation needed tags is a courtesy to allow editors to find the appropriate references. Whether you believe this to be a provocation, and in fact whether or not it actually is a provocation, the appropriate response, I believe, is to provide references, not to make accusations. --BostonMA 13:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Yup, BostonMA is right! Here is an explanation: Talk:List of people known as The Great#Indian_rulers. utcursch | talk 13:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok!So Shivaji Maharaj is not great.Sorry for my msg.Perhaps u dont want to comment about good faith/bad faith edits..Mahawiki 15:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Shivaji may be great. But he is not "Shivaji the great". Sarvagnya 16:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

He is!See this explaination.Mahawiki 03:07, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello, What is the need of including Kannada transliteration here just because he;s acted in few Kannada films?He has acted in Telugu/Malayalam/Bangla films also so does that mean we should inculde trasliterations in that language too?I mean Tabu did a Marathi film,should I insert Marathi transliteration on her page?Mahawiki 15:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Admin is requested to comment on this in accordance to naming conventions in wikipedia.Rajnikanth's mother-tongue is Marathi.[ Here's the citaion [[2] So Marathi transliteration has to be added. Mahawiki 03:44, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Utcursch,

Three things.

1. Please refer to this edit in Rajnikanth article. Without discussing why this change is being made, that is replacing the order of transliteration, the editor as made the change. I am not going to revert that(as suggested by you just a couple of sections above in this page), instead bringing it into your attention.

It started when u deleted and preceeded Kannada transliteration. Mahawiki 04:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

2. Is there any Wikipedia policy or guideline on placing transliteration of names in multiple languages? If so please let me know. If not, would it be a better this to raise this in India related topics noticeboard?

3. Please refer to this edit in Talk:Rajnikanth page. There was question on why Kannada transliteration is required. I have answered with citations and then I have asked for reasons and citations for Marathi transliteration. I get the answer "It is a known fact and so dont bother me regarding this." I consider this as incivility. Do we need to repeat the same lines again what BostonMA and you have written just above this section? I will leave it upto you. Thank you. - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 04:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I had inculded the citation within minutes.So check twice before complaining.It would be nice if u dont make a fuss about non-issue.Do u want citations about Sky being blue or birds can fly.Mahawiki 04:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

This multiple languages transliterations order has come up on the Carnatic music page also. There it was decided by Admin:Sundar and other editors to stick to alphabetical order. Refer Carnatic Music and its talk page for more details. Sarvagnya 04:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear KNM, perhaps u forgot to see the citation i posted within few minutes of my post.Tamil should come first since Rajni is Tamil star,Marathi is obviously second since he's a Marathi born, kannada infact should not be there and if has to be included so should bangla,Malayalam and Telugu since Rajni's acted in these films too. Carnatic Music has sanskrit first and followed by other languages.Sarvagnya seems to erred in this aspect. Mahawiki 04:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually my pesonal opinion is that inclusion of Indian scripts serves no purpose on English Wikipedia and should be done away with (except in rare cases such as Satyameva Jayate, where it's useful because most of the times the term is encountered in Devanagari script). The scripts should be included with interlanguage links. For eg. [[mr:उत्कर्ष्राज आत्माराम]] will make sure that उत्कर्ष्राज आत्माराम appears in the left sidebox under "In other languages". Actually, I thought of discussing this matter with other Wikipdians, but I know it will open a can of worms. So, I've avoided it. Hey, does that give you folks a reason to unite (and bash me up)? :-) utcursch | talk

It is so unfortunate that despite me giving dozens of citations u r not allowing Shivaji the great tag.May I know on what basis u think that all sources are Maharashtrian?What makes them invalid?If this is so half of wikipedia articles would be blank.In fact Mr.Dionesh and mr Sarvagnya uses Kannada media every now and then.Mr Dinesh doesnt go beyond a book of Suryakanth Kamat,so isnt all the articles based are invalid.Hats off to ur partiality and hatred against Maharashtra.U have completely gave in to ur Kannada speaking disciples.I cant belive a admin can be so biased.Sorry for these comments as I hate to be a underdog of urs.

And of course not including Shivaji's name in people known as great list doesnt make him less great.He is great leader and our god and he will be.Defaming Maharashtra/Marathi here will not make my beloved state and language less great.Wikipedia is a dirty place of filthy politics and biases. Mahawiki 08:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Admin, it wasn't correct of you to blast away the citations provided by Mahawiki, just on the basis that were Maharashtrian. If that is the case, then I can say almost all the edits by DineshKannambadi are uncited, since the only authors he cites are some Kannada authors like Suryanath Kamat and so on... If the citations were not provided you would've been correct in removing Shivaji from the list, but despite the citations.... ?!?!? And how can one say that it is not commonly used. I've heard people say "Shivaji the Great" many times. Perhaps, it is only because not much study has been done in the west about Shivaji, atleast not as much as Akbar or Ashoka. But this was not correct. I hope you rectify your error. - AryaRajyaमहाराष्ट्र 08:49, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi! if you feel, I am wrong, you can revert my edits (keeping the WP:3RR in mind). Being an admin doesn't give me any rights to decide what's right and what not at Wikipedia. So, please don't call Wikipedia "a dirty place of filty politics and biases". I am not shy of a WP:RfC. As about DineshKannambadi's edits, if you feel they are not correct, you are welcome to discuss them. Shivaji was indeed mahaan, but like I said, it's not a list of great people, it's a list of people (some of them notorious) who have "the great" commonly appended to their names. utcursch | talk 09:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I am not going to edit the article for the simple reason that Shivaji Maharaj is too great to be defamed by not including his name in that odd list.But this surely signifies the biases and injustice prevalent in Wikipedia.

Since ur a admin I am really looking forward about ur moves about the book 'A concise history of karnataka' by Karnataka writer Surykanth Kamat according to him-Rashtrakutas,yadavs,Chalukyas,Vijayanagara empire was all of Kannada origin.I am really curious about what YOU do about it since u were very swift in deciding fate of my citations!According to me Suryakanth Kamat isnt a reknowed writer and strangely almost all articles of South Indian history is being written by taking help of his books.To add Deccan Herald which publishes pro-Karnataka news and which is gnerously used for citations here.Mahawiki 09:44, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I really hope so.See Rashtrakuta, Seuna, Chalukya, Vijayanagara_empire in all these article his book 'A concise history of Karnataka' is cited as a source.In fact user Dineshkannambadi's all contributions are sourced from this book which is not accepted by many editors.I had problems with rashtrakuta and seuna while Telugu editors had problems with Vijayanagara_empire.Plz see the talk for the details.I think that historian glorifies Karnataka and terms all South Indian dynasties of being Kannada origin.Morever Dinesh seems to use only those sources including above which are pro-Karnataka, to push Kannada POV evenrywhere.Note the glorification of Kannada on these articles against other languages. Mahawiki 09:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

आपले मत वाचले.आपण जो न्याय माझ्या citationsला दिलात तोच न्याय आपण कामतांचे पुस्तक यांना द्याल अशी अपेक्षा आहे.ती citations केवळ मराठी लेखकांनी लिहीली म्हणून स्विकारली गेली नाहीत कारण त्यात POV आहे असे आपणांस वाट्ले.परंतु येथिल काही मंड्ळी चतुराईने कानडी लेखकांची वा कानडी दृष्टिकोन असणारे citations सर्रास वापरतात. आपण माझ्याविषयी असलेले पूर्वग्रह दूर केलेत तर फ़ार बरं होईल.मी येथे मराठी POV push करायला आलो नसून मराठी articles ना योग्य न्याय मिळावी अशीच माझी भावना आहे.काही मंड्ळी उगाचच मराठीविषयी आकस बाळ्गून आहेत व आपल्या राज्याचा उदो करत आहेत.आपण या मंड्ळीवर लक्ष ठेवले तर माझे अर्धे problems मिट्तील.आपल्याला वाट्त नाही का की रजनीकांत, maratha_empire(talk), great people list या लेखातील edits भले technically योग्य असतील पण ती provocative आणि bad faith ची होती.आपण या मंड्ळीवर लक्ष ठेवल्यास खूप उपकार होतील. Mahawiki 10:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

What do you think of this article? It has been created by another user who has been spamming wikipedia with links to his Burning Brain Society. I have deleted two or his articles as spam and copyvios. They were— Burning Brain Society and Hemant Goswami. He has been spamming articles like List of organizations and Social activist putting himself among the likes of Mahatma Gandhi and Dalai Lama. Please reply here, I will be watching this page. Regards, — Nearly Headless Nick {L} 12:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, I speedied the article as spam. — Nearly Headless Nick {L} 13:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, you already did that...:-) utcursch | talk 13:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the prompt reply. I hope you will be as active on Wikipedia as you are now.Please reply here, I am watching this page. — Nearly Headless Nick {L} 13:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I have no intention of adding Marathi POV.IMO,Yadavas were Marathi kings so perhaps if its right things will be sorted out as I want.I will surely honour ur decision.But I request u to keep yadava_dynasty article intact and merge senuna with it.I guarentee u I have no intention of adding Marathi POV.I want any article neutral and I am for truth. Mahawiki 13:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok.Of course dont forget to have a look at rashtrakuta, vijayanagara_empire, chalukya too when u find time.It will be nice to get help from a person who's expert in history for the same.Plz proceed as u feel,what i want is to remove unnecessary POV and possible distortion of facts. Mahawiki 14:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Any attempt to merge this page with a page called Yadava dynasty without broad consensus and any attempt to eliminate pertinant sourced info on Kannada will be taken for arbitration. Be careful!!! Dineshkannambadi

This is what I oppose.dinesh is a pseudo-historian pushing Kannada POV everywhere possible with the help of great fiction writer Mr.Kamat. Mahawiki 03:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi utcursch, please see Seuna article. The User:Dineshkannambadi has reverted all your edits to his version diff saying "..any attempt to remove any material regarding Kannada on thsi page will go for arbitration. Please be adviced." Again he cites the same book by Suryakant Kamat. And removes all your edits including the cleanup you did.

Apart from that he makes a personal attack on me here, saying I am "illmannered" and also questions your decency. It's unfortunate, that Wikipedia has become a place for extreme POV pushing by Kannada users. - AryaRajyaमहाराष्ट्र 02:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Utcursch, I am a little disappointed that you made many drastic changes to the article without discussing it on the talk page. Also, by the way, Dr.Suryanath Kamath is a very highly reputed and regarded author and historian. This habit of Arya and Mahawiki to summarily trash his credentials is very incivil. Please discuss on talk page if there any issues that need to be clarified. Thanks. Sarvagnya 05:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

By the way, as for Dr. Suryanath Kamath, if you want to ascertain his credentials, please do a cursory google search test on his name. And his name is Suryanath Kamath and not Suryakant Kamat as Arya and mw seem to have rechristened him. Also by the way, Dr.Kamath is the President of the esteemed Mythic Society. Thanks. Sarvagnya 05:39, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I did a google search on Suryanath Kamath not on Suryakant Kamat which we rechristened him (As if the admin cannot see reference given by Kannamabadi on the article page ;))). I got only 1,070 results (too less, na. For such a great historian) - Google results. What do I get ? Surprise surprise - Kamats Potpourri !!!!! Ha ha ha. A Kannada-glorifying site !!!! What other results do I get ? Wikipedia articles and mirrors !!!! "Thatskannada" (should've been that's Kannada POV) !!!! The Hindu, Deccan Herald !!!!! - AryaRajyaमहाराष्ट्र 05:51, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

What kind of hypocrisy is this?According to sarvagnya my citatios are invalid because they are of Maharashtrian writers but Suryakanth Kamath is great just because he write all pro-Kannada things.Surprisingly its only kannada editors think he's great and reputed while Telugu editors have also questioned Vijayanagara_empire and Marathi editors have questioned Seuna and Rashtrakuta.IMHO he is nothing but a chauvinist Kannada historian. Mahawiki 06:29, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

hilarious!!I am amused to see the google search! Mahawiki 06:32, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Sir, Sorry I did not realise you were an administrator. However, Can you please explain why you tagged many citations of mine on this page leaving only the citation for the Sanskrit work. I dont mind the edits you made otherwise. The word "Ill-mannered" or "indecent" was not used against you but these two guys Mahawiki and Arya. Please read their previous messages on the talk page Seuna calling me "shameless" etc, when I was being decent with them.

Dineshkannambadi

Well my incivility is well-known to all thanks to saravagnya but perhaps u ppl forget to mention that Sarvagnya have also used words like shameless, troll, wolf blah blah generously against me^{[citation needed]}.And even u have used ill-mannered and indecent.So stop justifying them.Mahawiki 05:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Suryanaht Kamath is the winner of the "Sahitya academy award" for 1973. His work is original. I can provide the name of his publisher. No body can belittle another writer by counting the number of google hits or whatever. It shows a complete apathy towards History. As I have said from the begining, please purchase the book and read. Making fun of other writers just because it does not suit ones purpose shows lack of judjement and prejudice. Its ok to suspect another writers authenticity, not call him/her fiction writer and such. I intend to start work on this page (irrespective of when this boils down) with info from Prof. K.A.N Sastri. Is he also a fiction writer?. Mahawiki and Arya have shown scant respect for authors who dont write to their whims and fancies. This has been their theme from the begining. They have constantly belittled Dr. Jyotsna Kamat also, another well known award winning writer . They have even mentioned "Konkani prejudice" against Maharashtra on a previous occassion on a different page. Looks like to these guys whoever stands in the way of their ego is a fiction writer. And what do they have towards their defence. Have they produced atleast one writer (award winning or not)?. Have they produced one published book?. These guys have no regard for history. Online brawling, destruction of valid data, creating suspecion against authors seems to be their main contribution to wikipedia.

Dineshkannambadi