User talk:OwenBlacker/Archive 4

This page is a chronological archive of past discussions from User talk:OwenBlacker for the period September – December 2007. In order to preserve the record of past discussions, the contents of this page should be preserved in their current form. Please do not make new edits to this page. If you wish to make new comments or re-open an old discussion thread, please do so on the User talk:OwenBlacker page. If necessary, copy the relevant discussion thread to the User talk:OwenBlacker page and then add your comments there.

Archives

June – October 2004 October 2004 – May 2006 June 2006 – July 2007 September – December 2007 January 2008 – February 2009 February 2009 – December 2010 January – December 2011 January – December 2012 January – December 2013 January – December 2014 January – December 2015 January – December 2016 January – December 2017 January – December 2018 January – December 2019 January – December 2020 January – December 2021 January – December 2022 January – December 2023

Thanks very much for creating the former countries info box for the bishopric of speyer. I have one issue though with the information you have provided, the image of the coat of arms. The coat of arms you provide is certainly the coat of arms of the city of Speyer. However, it is the coat of arms of the independent city of Speyer. The bishopric had its own coat of arms which can be found in other city coat of arms today, such as Bruchsal and Dielheim. Here is the coat of arms of the former town of Horrenberg

.

The only evidence though that this is argent cross on blue is the coat of arms of the Bishopric of Speyer is the description of these town coat of arms from the German Wikipedia sites. I do not know if we should consider this an authoritative description. Based on that information I created a graphic of the Bishopric coat of arms by modifying on of these city coat of arms images to just leave the cross on blue. However, because of the lack of authoritative information and my own unsureness of the intellectual property issues for using such an image, I have not uploaded it to wiki.

Do you have any evidence that you have the correct coat of arms? Do you think I should upload the coat of arms graphic I created?

imars 06:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey I found a source with the correct coat of arms. Website for the See of Speyer So I went ahead and fired up Illustrator and made a coat of arms. A happy end. imars 12:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The summer has passed (unless you live in the Southern Hemisphere), and for most people holidays are over. Therefore, it is time for work again. Not that work ever stops in Wikipedia, but I believe we can at last get over the stage when slow progress can be taken for granted. Like yourself, most members of WikiProject Succession Box Standardization have been away during most of the summer (and some of you have been away for much longer); this lack of contributors has almost led SBS activity to a standstill.

A couple of members have stayed, however, and things have greatly improved in the project. There is a renovated and functional main page; the talk page has organised archives and a dedicated page for archived proposals; the Guidelines page is in a very good shape and I am preparing a further set of guidelines to be proposed for adoption by the project and incorporation into the page; the Documentation page has been again updated and a potential restructuring is being planned; the Templates list is the operations centre for the ongoing removal of antiquated and redundant templates. The Offices page is the only one that has yet to be improved, but there is a proposal for that one as well. Even a new SBS navbox has been created and added to the project's pages, easing navigation between the different parts of the WikiProject, while shortcuts have been created for the three most basic pages.

And the project itself is not the only thing that has been improved; the headers system has been cleared up and rationalised during the last six months, and a new parameter system is being inserted into templates like s-new and s-vac in order to successfully adapt succession boxes to more tricky cases of succession without large, clumsy cells or redundant reasoning. S-hou has also been improved and /doc pages have been added to most of the headers' pages, as well as to many proper succession templates' ones.

Despite all these breakthroughs that have made SBS a better, more functional and more user-friendly WikiProject, things move excruciatingly slowly as far as the adoption of proposals and correction/improvement of succession boxes in the mainspace are concerned. As has been mentioned, this is due to the utter absence of all but two of its members. I completely understand that a few of them might be unwilling to resume work in SBS, and some of them might even have left Wikipedia altogether. However, we are certain that there are people intent to continue improving Wikipedia's succession boxes and helping others to do so as well. If you are one of them, please return. And even if you cannot help at the moment, but want to contribute at a later time, please let us know by renewing your membership. You can do that very easily by removing the asterisk next to your name in the member list in SBS's main page. The deadline is 31 October; members that do not renew their memberships until 23:59 of that day will be removed from the list, as these members will be assumed to have left the project for good.

SBS is a project highly capable of doing some serious work in Wikipedia. These potentials are seriously undermined by the unavailability of helpful hands. I hope you shall consider this message seriously before taking any decisions.

Thank you for your time. Waltham, The Duke of 14:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello OwenBlacker, the German Confederation didn't use the flag of the Reichsflotte. The Reichsflotte was established in 1848 by the provisional central government of the National Assembly in Frankfurt, after the Revolution of 1848 took place. Indeed the Reichsflotte used the black-red-golden flag with the coat of arms in the left upper corner during the years 1848 until 1852. During that years the German Confederation was inactive. The dominant member states, especially Austria, always opposed the use of the black-red-golden flag. After the German Confederation was reestablished in 1850/1851 one of the first actions had been the disestablishment of the Reichsflotte in 1852. After that year the black-red-golden flag wasn't in use. It was certainly no symbol of the German Confederation. Blinder Seher 12:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed this again - let us discuss it before we get into a revert war. I have set out briefly my reasons for objecting on the briefly on the talk page, but maybe it would be better discussed on the appropriate Wikiproject page, as you say that this is a project policy. HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 16:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have opened a discussion here as this article raises a couple of more general points. HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 17:41, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Copy from cs:Wikipedista diskuse:JAn Dudík

Similarly, I've just reverted your bots edits to another article. You should probably set it not to remove interwiki links; they're much more often right than wrong. — en:User:OwenBlacker, 20:43, 18. 9. 2007 (UTC)

But there are two articles: en:Organ (music) and en:Pipe organ. I only wanted to make interwiki correct, because both articles linked to the same in some languages. If it is wrong, please add correct interwiki to both articles and I will repair it in all other. JAn Dudík 20:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This thread was edited in January 2013 to interlace the discussion originally left on User talk:HeartofaDog.

Some more points about these, as there is no discussion happening on the project page, and no-one seems to be applying these infoboxes except you. For clarity, let me underline that I am only concerned here about Imperial abbeys, not about other HRE states.

I appreciate the effort you've put in to adding these boxes, but if they are be of value then it has to be done as accurately as possible.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on regarding the application of these boxes to articles which are not about the abbeys themselves. But I have every intention of finishing what I started, and writing articles for all of these religious houses, so if you will wait until I have done so, the problem will solve itself. Will you accept that as a working compromise?

In the meantime I will remove the boxes from the articles where they are misplaced, ie, Thorn (Netherlands) and Stein am Rhein - I think anyway the data in the infobox for that last one, taken presumably from the German Wikipedia, relates to the reichsfrei status of the TOWN, which is of course a completely different entity from the abbey.

Another point relating to all of them is the same point as the discussion you've already had re the Bishopric of Speyer. You are adding the arms of the towns of the same name, whereas the monasteries all had their own arms, which were different - the town arms often draw on the abbey arms, sometimes very closely, but are rarely if ever identical.

Also, when you are working on these articles, please don't reduce the size of the font in the lists of abbots, as in St. Blaise's. It makes them almost illegible. Nor do you need to link every single date - only the most significant ones, like foundation and secularization, need linking.

I have a couple more points to make about the infobox itself, which I will probably raise on the Template talk page. Regards, HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 11:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise. If working on Reichsklosters is something you're planning on doing, I can certainly leave all those infoboxes until you have created the articles.

Also yes, I'm aware I got a few coats of arms wrong; I'm being a bit more careful about that now.

Sorry about not having got back to you on the talk: page yet; it's been one of those weeks at work, so I've been leaving it until I had time to breathe and think. But yeah, I do think you're right on most of your points. No danger of an edit war, don'worry *GRIN*

Regarding the font size of the list, I'm not sure the list should be full size in a single column (in IE, at least) — it takes up a lot of vertical space whilst leaving shedloads of whitespace. Can we make the font size a little smaller without going quite as far as I did? Is there space for a compromise on that issue too?

All suggestions welcome :o) — OwenBlacker 12:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delighted to see that you do compromises! I say this because I've had some bizarre experiences with editors who think it's a dirty word. I'm happy to meet you halfway.

Yes, I am planning to fill out the gaps in articles on Impl abbeys - I've been plodding away at it on and off for quite a long time, but quite close to finishing now - just the awkward ones left. I'll start with Thorn and Stein a. R., although when I last looked there was v little inf on the abbey at Stein.

As long as you're aware of the issue with the coats of arms, I'll keep quiet about it - although I hope you won't mind if I take out the town arms if they're wrong. Sometimes it's easy to sort out - St Blaise's Abbey arms are the same as the town arms but with the stag headed the other way, for example, so the image just has to be flipped round, but of course they're not all that easy to do, or to find out.

I see your point about the lists - (e.g.) a double column in a slightly smaller typeface, or something similar, should work fine. (The only difficulty would be if there were a long comment on a particular name, but that seems not to happen very much with medieval German abbots, and if it does, it could equally well go as a footnote instead). All best, HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 14:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re compromise: absolutely; we're all just trying to make this a better encyclopædia, after all.

Awesome, I'll leave all the abbeys for now then. If you want to put the infobox on yourself, if you set the status to Abbey and the empire to Holy Roman Empire then the rest is pretty obvious. Of course, if you can't be bothered, then drop me a note when you're done and I'll go through Category:Imperial abbeys ;o)

Yeah, please do feel free to remove any actually-wrong coats of arms. Whilst I prefer the infobox to have a coat of arms in it, it's obviously better to have no CoA than a wrong one. Any that are easy to amend, lemme know and I'll see what I can do with Photoshop or Inkscape.

Yeah, I've been moving long comments into <ref/> tag footnotes in lists like that, which makes sense, I think.

All sounds good to me :o) — OwenBlacker 15:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Using the infobox

If you don't know the exact start or end year, put the century in as the year_start or year_end, then use date_start or date_end to be as specific as you know and add a life_span with the same details. So you might end up with something like

{{Infobox Former Country
 ...
 |status                 = Abbey
 |empire                 = Holy Roman Empire
 |government_type        = Theocracy
 |
 |year_start             = 12th century
 |year_end               = 1803
 |life_span              = [[1170s]] – [[1803]]
 |
 |event_pre              = Abbey founded
 |date_pre               = [[1153]]
 |event_start            = Gained ''[[Reichsfreiheit]]''
 |date_start             = [[1170s]]
 ...
 |event_end              = [[German Mediatisation|Mediatised]] to [[Grand Duchy of Baden|Baden]]
 |date_end               = <!--- Optional: Date of disestablishment --->

That way, the category gets set to the century, but the version actually displayed always shows the more-specific one. (The only thing to be careful of is the year_end, which checks for states lasting beyond 1806 that were part of the HRE. Gimme a yell here, if you need.)

Also, I forgot to mention, if you look at Strasbourg, you'll see how we handle articles about former states on language boundaries — we add all the appropriate languages (within reason, Austria-Hungary only shows German and Hungarian, for example) in alphabetical order of ISO 639 code. If you get any abbeys where German wouldn't've been the primary language (or isn't now, even if it was then, such as in Alsace), could you add more than one language (or flag it up for me on my Talk: page and I'll take a look), please?

Thank you so much for doing this; it's very much appreciated! — OwenBlacker 17:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This thread was edited in January 2013 to interlace the discussion originally left on User talk:HeartofaDog.

OK - I've done a start article on Stein am Rhein Abbey at St. George's Abbey, Stein am Rhein but have come to a halt applying the infobox. I haven't (yet) got a firm end date, just a date range - 1521-1526 - and the box doesn't seem to like either that or 1520s as an end date so is refusing to display properly. Any ideas? (infoboxes and I have not been on close terms up to now). thanks HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 17:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How very curious; it really doesn't like uncertain end dates, does it? Sorry about that.

I'm pasting in the one I originally wrote on the article Stein am Rhein, as the longevity details are a bit more accurate — the start and end dates are those of the entity being a state, rather than its existence. So any time before an Abbey gained Reichsfreiheit or after secularisation doesn't get included there.

Sorry, I'm not explaining all of this very well, am I? Good effort on the infobox, though :o) — OwenBlacker 17:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's there but not quite right - would you take a look? HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 17:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bugger, I didn't realise it was about the town. Reading the text of the article — both the English and German —, it looks like it's about the abbey and that the Reichsfrei abbey was responsible for the town too, no? — OwenBlacker 18:03, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It is certainly happier with definite dates, but unfortunately we can't use this version as the dates don't apply to the abbey, but to the town.

(after experimenting some more) The problem is specifically with the year-end field - it will take an "xth century" start if it has definite year at the end - sadly I don't have this inf for SaR. Will think on it some more. HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 18:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's the year-end field checking against 1806. I didn't realise the logic was quite so flaky, though. I'll see if I can find a better way to get that logic working. — OwenBlacker 18:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(We've crossed messages) What i meant was that the dates you give in the infobox relate to the town of Stein, which was also reichsfrei, but completely independently of the abbey, so it has entirely different dates.HeartofaDog (talk • contribs) 18:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aaah, I see. I thought the town had been a territory of the abbey. Sorry! — OwenBlacker —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 18:10, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to inquire about your recent edits to the Hosts file article—some of the em dashes that are present in the article had spaced added around them. Did you mean to replace the em dashes with en dashes, or to include hair spaces — like these — around the em dashes?

Thanks! —Mike Trausch ^{Fd0man•Talk to me} 05:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just in case you’re not watching my talk page, I have posted a reply to your comments there. —Mike Trausch ^{Fd0man•Talk to me} 18:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't change the titles of sources when you do your "cleanup" edits. It is very important that accurate information about our references is given. Also, please don't add those ugly commas between cite numbers. I really don't have time to go around cleaning up after your cleanup edits. Everyking 07:34, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have a consensus for it. I may be the first one to complain, but that's not a consensus. There's no instruction or agreement anywhere for people to put those commas in, and until I looked at your edits I had virtually never seen them used before. So don't add them to other people's work anymore. Feel free to add them in your own writing if you like, but don't force them on the rest of us.

As for changing titles, you've definitely done this. [1][2] You changed uppercase in titles to lowercase. Stating the names of the sources we use is not a matter of editorial discretion; you should report the name the same way that the source gives the name. Everyking 08:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well then, I will continue to fix your "fixes" whenever I see them. Everyking 19:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This conversation moved to User:OwenBlacker/Usability as a request for comment.

I have no objection to your other cleanups, which appear helpful. I only reverted all the changes the first time I saw them out of sheer annoyance; after that I was careful not to. Anyway, since other people are commenting on the issue, I will defer to the consensus about this stuff. Everyking 04:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're removing quotes from reference titles? Everyking 09:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All of the examples there use quotes. I have never heard of a system of referencing where article titles were not quoted. Everyking 15:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are four examples on Wikipedia:Citing sources of references used with quotes. There are no examples without quotes. Furthermore, all the examples on Wikipedia:Citing sources/example style use quotes. Please quit removing them. Everyking 15:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is a case here of you removing quotes after I asked you not to. I ask you again to please stop. It is extremely troublesome to have to go around adding back these quotes. Everyking 11:50, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All the examples use quotes, so it seems to me that's a pretty strong endorsement of using quotes. We're not talking about just a generic link to a webpage or something, we're talking about links to press articles. Everyking 19:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

1. editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with,
2. participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors,
3. linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam);

   and you must always:

4. avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest. Thank you. --Ronz 20:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Energy switching services in the UK‎ . Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. --Ronz 20:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This conversation continued on User talk:Ronz and WP:COIN — OwenBlacker (Talk) 20:45, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue X - October 1, 2007 The LGBT studies project has been rather quiet of late. Though we've added over 180 new members in the last year, only a small percentage are active participants. If you haven't visited our project or talk page in a while, please stop by for a look. Also, if you happen to bump into another editor who you feel might enjoy working with us, please extend an invitation. There's lot's do do, and the active members would sincerely appreciate some help. Welcome to the 11 new members that joined us in September: Bu852, JuniorMuruin, Laualoha, JereKrischel, Dybryd, Sexperts, Ctjf83, Allstarecho, Johnandbob, Carlossuarez46, and Carterdriggs! LGBT Project Peer review Our Peer review project is struggling at the present, with only a few people reviewing the articles. While it is certainly possible to submit articles for a general peer review, a review by members of the LGBT community can be of additional value for LGBT specific writing. There are several articles currently up for review on a wide range of topics. At the very least, reading the articles will undoubtedly broaden your intellectual horizons :-) Deletion discussions At the moment, David Le Brocq, Malmö Devilants and Trajectory Hermeneutics are up for deletion review. Please take a look at them and make your voice heard at the deletion review. Articles nominated for deletion also present a challenge for improvement. See what you can do, and watchlist our deletion review page. FA & GA article news Since our last newsletter, Fun Home and GayFest have been promoted to Good Article status. Congratulations to all editors who have worked so hard to improve them! While the T-Z list was promoted to Featured list on September 26, 2007, we have had no articles reach Featured Article status since Homer's Phobia was promoted last March. In fact, one article of our Project was delisted: Andrew Van De Kamp. Please take a look at out listed articles and see if you'd like to try to take one to Featured status (there are almost 8,000 to choose from). Additionally, Conversion therapy has been nominated for Featured status. Please read the article and give feedback at the Feartured Article Candidates page. (See also our FA-class list.) Pederasty article controversy The Pederasty articles continue to be a point of controversy both within and outside of our community. Various editors have suggested that to include them as LGBT Project related somehow taints the project and brings Wikipedia into disrepute. Other editors have stated that the articles, and especially the Pederasty article, are part of the core of LGBT studies. Well meaning editors continue to remove our tags from the articles themselves as well as the talk pages. If you have time, please read the articles and watchlist them to protect them from vandalism and well meaning but counterproductive edits. List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people The list of LGBT people has survived its 4th nomination for deletion. Please watchlist this list to protect it from vandalism and unsourced additions. There are many in Wikipedia who would like to see this Featured status list removed from the project. It is up to us to keep it to such a high caliber that it never is removed. David Shankbone Our project member David Shankbone is now working as a journalist for Wikinews, as well as continuing to improve our project and Wikipedia as a whole with his photographs. A sincere thank you goes out to him for all of his hard work. Wikipedia would not shine nearly as brightly without your contributions, David. Barbara Gittings The surviving life partner of prominent LGBT rights activist Barbara Gittings recently called one of our editors and, among other things, complimented us on what a great job our project is doing on Wikipedia. Thanks to everyone who contributes to this project, either through their article edits or support for other project members. We really are making an difference here! Member assistance Some of our project members have been having difficulties related to editing on the encyclopedia. If you are feeling frustrated or distressed by your editing experience, please don't keep it to yourself. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, and we are all here to help one another. Drop a line on our talkpage or on another editor's page, and other members of the LGBT project will happily give you the support you want and need. Lastly, Halloween is just around the corner. More than most holidays, Halloween is a holiday embraced by and tailor made to our community (though God only knows why we are invisible in the Halloween article here. Perhaps somebody would like to rectify that editing oversight). Have fun, everybody, and remember to both trick and treat! To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.

Delivered on 17:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC).

Hello. I was just wondering about those two changes you made. 1. How does that km2 method work, 2. I don't see any difference between (in French) and (in French) (with icon), what is it for, what does it do?--Tallard 06:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bonjour and welcome to the first WikiProject France newsletter!! It should become a monthly special of our project, but until the next issue, here are some points to consider for the month:

• In an effort to determine the active members from the inactive, all members are asked to simply sign on my special userpage.
• I have slightly rearranged and updated the Project page, putting all the featured lists in collapsible tables. This unclutteres the page and you only have to see them if you want to. Give your feelings at the talk page.
• I have made a Wikipedia advert for our project, Image:Qxz-ad108.gif, what do you think? Personally I feel the words need improving ...
• There are still map problems at Template:French commune - any help at resolving them would be greatly appreciated.
• What about starting a monthly drive? We currently have no Featured Portals (except for the Basque Portal which really isn't French any way), so how about improving Portal:France??? I don't know what's exactly wrong but the criteria can be seen at Wikipedia:Featured portal criteria.

It doesn't seem like a lot, so I hope we will still have enough problems for nexts months issue. Salut till the next issue, ChrisDHDR (17:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)).[reply]

This thread was edited in January 2013 to interlace the discussion originally left on User talk:HeartofaDog.

Something in this template has caused problems with the sorting of Burtscheid Abbey and Buchau Abbey in Category: Imperial abbeys, in that it is apparently causing them to appear out of alphabetical order. I don't know enough about it to spot what the problem is, so have left it alone after a couple of initial attempts, but could you please sort it out before adding the template to other articles? Thanks. HeartofaDog (talk) 23:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! Thanks for the message on my talk page. I can't see any problem with their listing of Burtscheid Abbey and Buchau Abbey in Category:Imperial abbeys; am I missing something? — OwenBlacker (Talk) 17:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's OK now. HeartofaDog (talk) 00:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah cool; that's ok then :o) — OwenBlacker (Talk) 09:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue XI - November 1, 2007 Hey, Peeps, it's that time of the month again (no not that time — get your mind out of the gutter): time for another monthly edition of the LGBT Project's Love Boat newsletter from your cruise director Miss Julie. So much has been happening this month and I just can't wait to tell you all about it!!! Alice and her harasser Let's start with some good news: Alice and the project lost the bothersome sock puppet who had been disrupting many articles we monitor, and now most of us can edit in relative peace. Congratulations, Alice, for being able to come out of semi-retirement. Benjiboi, on the other hand, has gained an anonymous IP stalker who seems to be more Catholic than the Pope and who has a hard-on for the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. We seem to have a sort of Yin and Yang thing going on here, which helps both to keep us in balance and on our toes <bright smiles all around>. Harry Potter and his homosexual teacher Albus Dumbledore got outed this month, and was immediately adopted by our project. The international brouhaha surrounding this disclosure reached all the way to Wikiland, and his article was briefly locked due to homophobic vandalism (as well as well meaning editors who just couldn't believe that that nice man could possibly be gay). This is a wonderful article to add to your watchlist, and will surely give you hours of reverting fun on cold winter days. "My Fellow Americans" On a more serious note, Fireplace has suggested a new article series about LGBT rights in the United States, state by state. This ambitious topic will surely require many editors and a lot of research, but has the potential to add further prestige to our already prestigious project. Same name, same sexuality: a riddle for the ages Francis Bacon (not the new gay one, but the old gay one ... though they're actually both dead, now that I think about it) has also aroused passions here on Wikipedia, with editors opposing his sexuality being disclosed in his biography. The always helpful Haiduc has thoughtfully provided any number of sources, but it is slow going getting his point across. Anyone want to lend a hand? Beat writer arouses Irish guy And speaking of passions, Jack Kerouac has inflamed the senses once again with editors, including administrator Irishguy, mounting a spirited defense to keep him as heterosexual as possible for Wikipedia purposes. Why? I don't know. Perhaps some of you can drop by the talk page and ask your questions there. I feel certain a stimulating debate will ensue that will be enjoyed by all. Love those Texas Longhorns Did you know that one of our Featured articles, Lawrence v. Texas, lost its shiny gold star? That was a shocker. It has been suggested that we turn our attention to it in an effort to restore it to its former glory. I took a peek, and it does need our help badly. For our American editors, it would seem almost a civic duty to edit it (not that I'm hinting....). Point and Counterpoint Though it was far too intellectual a debate for a mere cruise director like myself to take part in, Intersexuality was certainly a hot topic a week or two ago. The thrust of the debate was over inclusion in our project. Lots of good editors had lots of good opinions. For those too lazy to check out the discussion, we decided to leave it out for now. Drudgery on offer Peer review is, as always, short staffed and seemingly unloved. Wouldn't you feel better about yourself and the world in general if you took a few minutes to read one of the listed articles and offer some helpful advice? I know I'd feel better if you did. "My Fellow Americans" redux The article LGBT movements in the United States certainly raised eyebrows last week, especially when it was discovered that copyrighted content had been added to our article. Tragedy was averted at the last minute, though, when the original hosts of the article where the material had been pilfered agreed to make it free to everyone. Our thanks to them, whoever they are. Busy Bee that I am, I haven't had time to read it, but I'm sure it's sensational. This month's Wiki stars Lesbian pulp fiction (a genre close to my heart, I must confess) writer Ann Bannon has decided to spice up the featured articles candidates list this month. Why not drop by and make your opinion heard? Joining her in this lofty aspiration are the articles But I'm a Cheerleader and Conversion therapy. I'm sure their main editors would welcome any comments (well, helpful ones, anyway) on the talk pages or the FAC discussions. And lest we forget, the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: Sd-Si became a Featured list!! Rah rah, siskumbah! Go, team, GO!!!! And the Oscar goes to... Not content to run for Best Actress, plucky Bannon won a Best supporting actress Oscar... whoops, I meant to say Ann is also getting more than her share of womanly attention on the Good Article list. Joining her on this exalted plane are Freddy Mercury, Waylon Smithers and Lance Bass. Good articles indeed, and the last one mentioned just goes to show that one needn't admire the subject of an article to appreciate the effort put into making him worthwhile reading. What on earth Britney ever saw in him I'll never know. Truly a riddle cloaked in an enigma and wrapped around a puzzle. Fresh faces to brighten our pages Though I may not be the first, let me extend a warm, LGBT Love Boat welcome to the 12 new members who joined us in October: Jliberty, JockCub360, ChristopherEdwards, Desiderius82, Zlrussell, Kelsied, BeardedWoof, Mujerado, Tyrfing, Fabgurrl, Redl@nds597198, and decafdyke! Whatever you choose to do here, I feel sure that your contributions will enhance our project to no end. And if they don't...well, let's just say that I'm not shy. Leather and lace On a personal note, your already overworked cruise director is being cyberly whipped almost daily by Nemissimo, who desperately wants to get the German BDSM translation copy edited and used as a replacement for the current one. It's such a ... err, stimulating topic that I am sure many of you will want to join the copy editing fun. Jump right in, folks! It's so lonely copy editing it all by my lonesome! Late breaking news A little birdie just whispered in my ear that our noble collaboration project was delisted from the Community Portal due to inactivity. When asked how this scandalous turn of events could have occurred, the answer I received was "we suck at stuff like that". Well. In the first place, I disagree that sucking should be considered a negative, but to each his or her own. In the second place, I have full confidence that we can and will collaborate with other projects in the future. So let's not view this as a setback (even though it is), but rather a challenge to improve (and good Lord, I sound almost Wikipedian!). Champagne dreams and caviar kisses Lastly, the holidays are rapidly approaching. Our American cousins are currently getting ready to slaughter masses of poultry in an effort to show their gratitude and generally peaceful demeanor, and those of the Canadian persuasion, trendsetters that they are, celebrated a bit early this year. I'm sure all us foreigners will join together in wishing them all a very happy Thanksgiving on their respective holidays, both already celebrated and forthcoming... though I would hope somebody would enlighten me as to why they don't celebrate it on the same day. I was awake all last night trying to figure that one out. In the spirit of this peculiarly North American holiday, let me take a moment to thank all of our editors for their contributions to this project. It's people like you who make people like me...well, a "people person"! May all your Wiki days be bright, and may your Love Boat never turn into a Poseidon. Kisses, Miss Julie To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.

Delivered on 12:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for uploading Image:RedRobe cover (Amazon).jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Does anyone running an image bot on this place actually make sure the damn thing works first? Appropriate (and surprisingly polite, given it's (a) a bot and (b) a copyright-paranoid) note left on the bot's Talk: page. — OwenBlacker (Talk) 21:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Wappen Gams.png. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 01:06, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More stupid, pointless copyright paranoia. Fair use case is blindingly obvious from {{Non-free logo}} (and {{Non-free symbol}}, with which I replaced the former). Go find something actually useful to do. ë OwenBlacker (Talk) 01:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Wappen Thal.png. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 01:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And another. Pointless, stupid copyright paranoia without a human actually reading the damn image page. Such a waste of everyone's time. — OwenBlacker (Talk) 01:51, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Rheinau.png. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. Additionally, if you continue uploading bad images, you may be blocked from uploading. STBotI 02:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And another. — OwenBlacker (Talk) 02:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading Image:Wappen Gams.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 15:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

File:Red leaves wreath transparent bg.png            The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter            File:Red leaves wreath transparent bg.png

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue XII - December 1, 2007 Here comes Santa Claus, Here comes Santa Claus, right down Santa Claus lane! Ho, ho ho (but not that kind of ho!) and Merry Christmas, everybody! Yes, that's right. It's time for the Christmas edition of the LGBT Love Boat newsletter. This homo Love Boat is cruising into Christmas and counting down the days to a brand new year! It doesn't matter if you're Christian or belong to some other, more obscure sect. Jesus loves you one and all, so let's curl up around the fire, sing some carols, drink some egg nog, and have a gay old time. But before we do, perhaps your chipper cruise director Miss Julie should spread the gender bendin' news from everyone's favorite project.... Table of Contents Quelle Suprise! King James is a Queen! It's Britney, Bitch! Game show for nerds Jón Þór Birgisson Everybody loves a sequel Not quite the second coming, but special just the same Battle of the Wikipedia Stars! Santa needs elves Urgent Christmas appeal Surrender, Dorothy!!!!!!! Ambrosia Christmas came early You! Quelle Suprise! King James is a Queen! Our dear Haiduc, never a stranger to controversy, recently decided to delve into the wardrobe of the British Monarchy, and what did he discover? King James had more than appreciative eyes for strapping young men! Naturally, Haiduc felt the need to share this news with the community, but instead of being praised for his scholarship, he was reviled. In fact, one rabid heterocentrist even rummaged around in his own wardrobe until he found an old pair of socks to play with. All seemed lost until astute editor Jeffpw noticed some odd postings and did some sleuthing of his own. The socks were uncovered, the Wicked Witch was melted and readers the world over were able to learn that Good King James regularly ordered tube steak from the menu of the day. Thank you, Haiduc! Thank you, Jeff! And let Miss Julie add (for readers who might not know) that tube steak tastes just like chicken! It's Britney, Bitch! Well, maybe it's not Miss Thang, herself, but it's the next best thing: Chris Crocker! he stirs up just about as much controversy as his idol does, even here on Wikipedia. Though it's all a bit of a muddle, one of our editors hopes you can drop by the talk page and leave a message of hope for those battling the forces of obstructionism in that little corner of the Wiki World. It is so hard to spread enlightenment. As Miss Parker herself said, "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think". Game show for nerds Wallowing in cash from the latest beg-a-thon, the powers-that-be have decided to sponser a little contest here to improve the articles, with a Grand prize of $100. Yeah. Just enough for a Burger King dinner for the family. Still, the thought is nice and the goal is noble, so we should support it. Our little Queer beehive has taken a look at what's on offer, and both the Greek Traditionalists and Daughters of Bilitis are well represented. The ever useful SatyrTN has made a little list, which can be found here (if that malignant bot hasn't archived it already, that is). So find a pal, roll up your sleeves and dive right in. Let's show this Encyclopedia just what Queers with firecrackers up their....err, I mean, let's show the others what we can do. Jón Þór Birgisson I can't pronounce his name, but he's awfully cute, he's deliciously foreign, and best of all...he's GAY! But he won't be for long, if certain users have their way. A concerted effort has been under way for a while now, designed to neuter poor Jon (pretend I put a little accent thingy over that O) and make him into a sort of rockin' Ken doll. So please watchlist this hunka man, and keep him queer! If anybody questions you, tell them "Miss Julie sent me". Everybody loves a sequel Readers not afflicted with Alzheimer's will remember that last month we had a little story about Alice and her harasser. That proved so popular that we bring you the sequel: Benjiboi and his stalker. After a chance meeting at the Michael Lucas article, this anonymous user took a shine to our Benjiboi, and has been showering him with attention on virtually every board on Wikipedia. Flattered though he is, Benjiboi finds the attention a bit distracting, and administrators have been seeking various remedies for this. It has proven difficult, as the stalker has an IP address that changes quicker than Superman in a telephone booth. So perhaps some of you would like to watchlist Benjiboi's page, and lend a hand if you see some love letters from an 11 digit friend. I was actually thinking we should get Alice's harasser and Benjiboi's stalker together. Then we could have another sequel, sort of like Freddy vs. Jason. Any bets as to who would win?? Not quite the second coming, but special just the same Let me be the first to give a warm, wet, Love Boat kiss (though not with tongue) to our newest Project members: Jacksinterweb, Cleduc, Pigman, Becksguy and Iamandrewrice. Even in the month of our Saviour's birth, your popping into our Wikipedian lives is a blessed event indeed. As Jesus Himself said, "Live long and prosper". He did say that, didn't he? I think he said it. In any event, if he was standing next to me now, I'm sure he'd say it, and add, "Happy homo editing!" Battle of the Wikipedia Stars! Indomitable Ann Bannon is holding her own in Wikipedia's answer to American Idol: The Featured Article candidate list! For four feverish weeks, she has mastered the challenges and not been eliminated from the competition. Drop by the FAC page and show Ann you love her....or give her the hook (I'm not supposed to tell you how to vote). Giving our plucky Ann reason to hope is the recent promotion of List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: Sa-Sc. If Miss Julie has her way, we will have the entire alphabet of Queerdom Featured here on Wikipedia soon! And I would be remiss if I did not give a warm, Lesbian salute to our own Belovedfreak, who showed Wikipedia with But I'm a Cheerleader that even pom poms are no protection from the Love that dare not speak its name, and got a gold star for her efforts. Climbing the Wikipedia career ladder is User: Tim1965, who has not only written, but is now promoting Reel Affirmations to Good article status. Best of luck, Tim, and remember: there are no small parts, only small actors. We're sure you'll be trading that green circle for a gold star soon (assuming you get the green in the first place!). Santa needs elves Yes, I know: packages need buying, trees need trimming, egg nog needs drinking. The holidays make many demands on our time. It's ...well, it's a bitch, is what it is. So I wouldn't blame you for skipping this little section and putting off my request until next year. But...think of the children. Our future. They need quality information about the homosexual "lifestyle" if we are to indoctrinate them properly. That's why I am asking you to drop by our Peer review area and give your meaning as to the efforts of your fellow gay Wikipedians. And think: in this season of kindness and good will to all, isn't it nice that I am pointing you to someplace where you can (in a Wikiloving way, of course) rip someone a new asshole? Think about it...and those children with their shiny, bright eyes, thanking you for contributing to their future. Even more festively, consider joining in on the deletion discussions of our favorite articles. Here you can bandy about such words as "homophobia", "Right-wing Christian agenda" and my personal favorite, "just who do you think you're pushing around?!?!?". If you play your cards right, there might even be an extra present under the tree for you. :-D Urgent Christmas appeal Tovojolo asked me to ask you to edit Elizabeth Bishop as part of the Collaboration Project. She's an old dead poet (Miss Bishop, not Tovojolo. I've never actually met Tovojolo. She's probably very young and attractive. Maybe somebody should ask if she's single), but she was a flaming homosexual long before most of us had even been conceived, so we owe her some respect. Tovojolo actually asked me for the last newsletter, but Miss Julie forgot. Bad Miss Julie. She was so busy boosting morale it just slipped right by her. Nemissimo, maybe you need to crack that whip again to get Julie back in line. Surrender, Dorothy!!!!!!! Friend of Dorothy has attracted the attention of a group of....the more senior elements of our gay society. They disagree with our thesis that Saint Judy was the possible source of the term, and demand we change the article to reflect their contention that Dorothy Parker was the origin. The problem is, their source didn't check out. So we agreed to disagree. Well, we at the project did. They got kinda mad at us, said unkind things, and started edit warring. Though they are old, they are certainly quick, and could revert the article faster than my nimble fingers could press the undo button. To quote the divine Miss Parker, every time I saw the article on my watchlist, I thought to myself, "What fresh hell is this?". The page was protected by sympathetic administrators, but keeping an eye on it will keep Dorothy safe from future Wicked Witches of the West or East. Ambrosia Our dear Benjiboi has been busy indeed, lately. He recently made fruit salad out of Fruit, turning a once nasty word into a damn good article, and saving it from deletion! Congratulations, Benjiboi! I hear he has turned his attention from fruit to poultry now. Before he is through, he will have turned every major food group gay on Wikipedia! Christmas came early Yes, indeed! Valued administrator WJBscribe was raised out of the mire of mid-level management and placed squarely into the Pantheon of Bureaucracy! And Miss Julie is just too proud of him not to mention that he got the most support votes in the history of Wikipedia! Congratulations, WJB! We know you will not prove the Peter Principle correct! You! Yes, you! It's you who make this project shine! It's you who make Wikipedia such a valuable resource for all humanity! And it's you who make Miss Julie's dull life just a little bit better. So I want to take this moment to thank each and every one of you for all you do here. Merry Christmas, everybody! Happy Hanukkah! Festive Kwanzaa! Delirious Dong Zhi! Delicious Diwali! And for our oppressed Iranian brothers and sisters, I wish you a safe and joyous Yalda. And if I didn't mention your favorite December holiday, well, it's because I feel it's so special I should just keep it between you and me. Always remember: You light up my life! May we all have a joyous holiday season, and a safe, healthy, happy and prosperous 2008. With love from Miss Julie To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Your Cruise Director know.

Delivered on 20:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC). SatyrBot 21:23, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's been one high aiming month! The French WikiProject and related pages have been aiming high for Christmas - and have received an equal number of presents in return!

• The French Portal is now a Featured Portal!!! It passed its Candidacy with 100%. Special thanks go to NYArtsnWords and all those that have made this Portal work.
• The Newsletter has made it to a second issue. You can find its page at WikiProject France/Outreach/Newsletter and its archives at WikiProject France/Outreach/Newsletter/Archives.
• A new page has been setup (WikiProject France/Links) to provide an index of the Projects/Portals pages (as well as helping newbees). When creating any pages in the Project/Portal namespace, please add them to the index page. This page also give WP:FRANCE members a handy watchlist.
• As like last time, members are asked to renew their memberships at Wikipedia:WikiProject France/Members.
• I will be on holiday when the next issue is meant to come out so could some generous person(s) please do the next issue at Wikipedia:WikiProject France/Outreach/Newsletter.

Well, that's this issue. Au revoir et à bientôt till the next time, ChrisDHDR (18:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)).[reply]

Thanks for uploading Image:ReMix cover (Amazon).jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thanks for uploading Image:Stamping Butterflies cover (Amazon).jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thanks for uploading Image:End of the World Blues cover (Amazon).jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thanks for uploading Image:Rheinau.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 20:40, 15 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading Image:Wappen Thal.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thanks for uploading Image:Lucifer's Dragon cover (Amazon).jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thanks for uploading Image:Neoaddix cover (Amazon).jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 21:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]