Template talk:Lang-el

• Template:Lang-grc for Ancient Greek.

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As most of the Multilingual support templates, this one should also italicize the word.
English: Example
German: Example
Greek: Example
First line of the source:
{{Language with name|el|Greek|{{{1}}}|links={{{links|yes}}}}}
should be changed with this one:
{{Language with name|el|Greek|''{{{1}}}''|links={{{links|yes}}}}}
Ufo karadagli (talk) 18:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This change has been completed. --Diannaa ^(Talk) 18:44, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with this change. Italics are useful and sensible for languages written in the Latin alphabet, where there is a need to distinguish foreign words, but Greek has its own unique alphabet and hence it is unnecessary. Furthermore, it sometimes makes reading the text (when diacritics are used) difficult. The MOS states this quite clearly: "Text in non-Latin scripts (such as Greek or Cyrillic) should not be italicized at all—even where this is technically feasible; the difference of script suffices to distinguish it on the page." Constantine ✍ 19:17, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was not aware of that. You can go ahead and request removing of italicization of the word. Ufo karadagli (talk) 20:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry, I assumed as much. I'll notify Diannaa just in case she didn't see this. Cheers, Constantine ✍ 21:23, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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In the See also section, both lang-grc and polytonic are listed, but polytonic no longer serves its former purpose (invoking a style declaration) and now simply transcludes lang + grc. Please delete the link to polytonic. Thank you — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 18:17, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done  Sandstein  22:00, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 22:18, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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See here. Thanx.
P.S. FYI I'm planning to do the same thing to the ell template.
Thanatos|talk|contributions 05:56, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 16:19, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What is the difference between the existing documentation and the documentation you created? Hyacinth (talk) 21:00, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

1.Thanx for your time, your replies. 2.The present documentation is the generic lang-x doc ("The above documentation is transcluded from Template:Lang-x/doc") with an ad hoc See also Lang-grc for Ancient Greek added before it. The one I've created is an analytic one similar among varieties of Greek lang- templates (grc, ell, gkm minus grc-gre whose documentation I haven't decided what to do with yet; it's sui generis lacking a lang|grc-gre use possibility ; btw the real sui generis is gmy, but I don't think there is any need to go over this now...(am I missing some other greek lang code template?)). It explains, as do the ones on other Greek varieties of lang- templates in detail both a.the syntax (detailing if one compares docs the differences between these templates), and b. where el (and ell with its different look and syntax) vs grc (and perhaps gkm - User:Lfdder and I have had a little amicable fight over this) should be used (although should, may in fact prove to be, at least for the time being, arbitary and meaningless). Thanatos|talk|contributions 08:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done I've converted the template to use the standard {{documentation}}. Thanatos, sorry that this request has taken so long to be carried out. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 04:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx. Thanatos|talk|contributions 09:43, 19 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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To allow making use of Template:Language with name's {{{lit}}} parameter, I created a sandbox version. While for many related articles, a {{{translit}}} parameter would be helpful, for now we should start with the current Template:Language with name. Regards, --PanchoS (talk) 15:34, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Testcases check out and no objections, so Done. Alakzi (talk) 18:17, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Awesome, thanks! --PanchoS (talk) 18:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Propose adding a |translit= parameter allowing proper addition of a generic transliteration per my last sandbox version, as showcased in the accompanying Testcases, and as already implemented and flawlessly working in Template:Lang-zh. --PanchoS (talk) 17:46, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@PanchoS: Is there a reason why {{Lang-zh}} doesn't have |translit=? Also, is there a reason why this template wouldn't support |link= like {{Lang-zh}} does? — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 18:56, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Andy M. Wang: IMHO, {{Lang-zh}} should allow |translit= as well, but I thought there was no hurry, as we can easily add support to named parameters, while deprecating is always more cumbersome. |link= is a not-yet-standard synonym for (plural) |links= that was previously introduced to {{Lang-zh}} in this edit. SMcCandlish has a point there, so obviously I didn't phase it out there, but neither did I consider it helpful to introduce yet another parameter at this point. I'd be perfectly fine with adding it upon separate discussion, though. --PanchoS (talk) 19:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! The changes look fine. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 20:01, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, another thought was that we might want to use (plural) |links= to turn off all links, whereas |link= would only turn "Greek" into (unlinked) "Greek". There's a point in differentiating between these two cases, as the "translit." or "lit." link might be helpful in a secondary occurence of {{Lang-el}}, if not present in the first occurence. On the other hand, the difference might be too subtle. Think we would need some more (separate) discussion on that aspect, so we'd better omit |link= as a synonym for now. --PanchoS (talk) 20:06, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@PanchoS: Thanks for the heads up! FYI, I noticed on Ammon that the usage assumed "lit" was the second unnamed param, rather than "translit". I Special:Diff/720424160 made a correction. There might be a few other instances where the param number is assumed, so I created Category:Instances of Lang-el using second unnamed parameter (need to wait for it to be populated) to track usage (if I did it correctly). — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 20:38, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Andy M. Wang: Thanks, yeah I came across one of these, too. However, from what I know, there's never been any similar template interpreting the second unnamed parameter as a literal translation, so I've no clue why someone used it that way. Probably we should altogether switch to named parameters, but for non-Roman scripts, the transliteration seems to be the better candidate for an unnamed parameter. --PanchoS (talk) 20:55, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@PanchoS: Also, if we proceed, I want to request {{Language with name and transliteration}} for indefinite template protection. Currently it has 2200+ transclusions, but if used on this template (which has 16000+ transclusions), your template itself should have the protection as well. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 19:04, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, that might make sense. --PanchoS (talk) 19:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done @PanchoS: Special:Diff/720422230. I'll update the documentation slightly to mention |translit=. I'll also submit an RFPP on {{Language with name and transliteration}}. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 20:04, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Re: |link= and |links=: Parameters are "cheap", and in this case |links= should be the documented, "advertised" parameter, with |link= a synonym of it that should work but need not be mentioned. There is no use case for linking "Greek" but not "lit." or "translit.", then later not linking "Greek", but linking "lit." or "translit." These should always be linked at first occurrence, and (unless separated by a wide gulf in a very long article) not re-linked later. Standard operating procedure. It would be confusing to fork the functionality, because the "only link this, not that" would be contrary to MOS:LINK or MOS:ABBR.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  23:08, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish: Parameters aren't cheap at all. Inconsistent parameter sets amongst related templates are a bad thing. So if carelessly adding parameters, while making sure they are consistent, we'd end up with maintaining basically unused parameters for five hundred (!) Category:Lang-x templates. Not saying we shouldn't arrive at adding |link=, but if we do, it's not because parameters were cheap.
Secondly, as described above, there is a case for turning the language link off but not the others, see also Example 3 I added for you at Template:Lang-el/testcases. --PanchoS (talk) 01:53, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We're arguing the same point. Having "special" behavior of |link= vs. |links= at this template is a bad idea. If it's really going to be that big a job, just change them all to |link=, use a bot to remove |links= from templates that formerly used it, then disable the plural parameter.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  03:04, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This comment might affect a more general case than {{lang-el}}, but I don't know how else to pursue it. The use of |translit= produces the word "romanized" in the result. In the context of an article that uses non-Oxford British English (e.g., "{{lang-el|Φίλιππος|translit=Fílippos}}" in Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh), this is not the proper spelling. See American and British English spelling differences and {{Use British English}}. Is there a way to fix that, or could an optional parameter be provided to fix it – e.g., |sp=br, similar to an option in {{convert}}? If it is already handled, could an example be added to the documentation? — BarrelProof (talk) 17:44, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]