Template:Did you know nominations/Sun Yang

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:44, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Sun Yang

Sun after winning the 200 metre freestyle at the 2016 Arena Pro Swim Series

• ... that Sun Yang (pictured) is the first swimmer in history to win Olympic gold medals in the 200, 400, and 1500 metre freestyle events? Source: "Sun wins gold in the 200 free, making him the first swimmer ever to stand atop the Olympic podium in the 200, 400 and 1,500 events"
  • ALT1:... that Sun Yang (pictured), a three-time Olympic gold medalist and eleven-time world champion, is the most decorated Chinese swimmer in history? Source: "Sun is also the most decorated Chinese swimmer in history ..." Note: source is from 2016 and is outdated; see achievements table in article for all citations.
  • ALT2:... that the public hearing of Chinese Olympic swimmer Sun Yang (pictured) on 15 November 2019 was hampered by translation issues, causing frustration for both judges and lawyers? Source: "The translation problems at Friday's hearing began almost from the start, and it was unclear at times how much of the testimony and questions were understood, with both judges and lawyers expressing frustration"
  • ALT3:... that Chinese Olympic swimmer Sun Yang (pictured) has been described by NBC Sports as "arguably the greatest freestyle swimmer of all time"? Source: "Controversial as he is, Sun Yang is very arguably the greatest freestyle swimmer of all time."
  • ALT4:... that in 2011, Chinese Olympic swimmer Sun Yang (pictured) broke Grant Hackett's 10-year world record in the 1500 metre freestyle, the longest-held world record in swimming? Source: "China's Sun Yang, at only 19 years old, has chased down one of the few World Records that survived the polyurethane era, and broke Grant Hackett's World Record in the men's 1500 free in 14:34.14. ... Hackett's former mark was the oldest World Record on the books: men's or women's, short course or long."

• Comment: First time doing a DYK; let me know if I didn't follow instructions correctly or if I can make improvements. Thanks.

Improved to Good Article status by Bobbychan193 (talk). Self-nominated at 04:23, 20 November 2019 (UTC).

• Article is a new GA, long enough, neutral, and well written. I find ALT0 the most interesting, which is verified with the supplied source (being described by NBC as "arguably the greatest freestyle swimmer of all time" would also make a great hook). Image is freely licensed. QPQ not required for first-time nominator.

There is, however, some close-paraphrasing issues in the "2018 testing incident" section: "Sun called his coach, the head of China's swimming delegation, and his lawyer. He was advised not to sign incorrect paperwork. According to the inquiry, one of the testing entourage had taken photos and videos of the swimmer without authority or permission. Around 3:00 am, four hours after the drug test, Sun's camp phoned the deputy director of the Zhejiang Anti-Doping Centre, asking what should be done to dispose of the blood sample." This closely resembles the abc.net.au source and needs rewriting. See Earwig report. -Zanhe (talk) 05:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: Thanks for the feedback; I'll rewrite that section. What is QPQ? Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

QPQ is the review requirement, which is exempt for new nominators with fewer than 5 DYK credits. See WP:DYKRULES #5. -Zanhe (talk) 05:35, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: Got it, thanks. I've edited the section in question. Can I add an ALT hook with the NBC quote? Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:41, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the issue. ALT0 is good to go. Feel free to add more hooks, and I'll review them too. -Zanhe (talk) 20:21, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

@Zanhe: Thanks. I've added two hooks. Can I ask, what is the point of having extra hooks? Bobbychan193 (talk) 20:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Approve ALT3 as well, ALT4 seems too complicated to me. Only one hook is required, but extra hooks provide more options to work with. Every nomination is checked by at least three people: reviewer, promoter, and admin, and they may have different preferences: some like shorter hooks with sweeping statements (such as ALT3), while other prefer hooks with more solid facts (such as ALT0). -Zanhe (talk) 01:54, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

All three proposed hooks seem problematic for not mentioning the issue of doping at all. If this DYK gets promoted with the first hook or ALT1, Wikipedia's main page will shortly be promoting a purely positive POV on (to quote the recent CBC source from above) "swimming's most controversial figure" at a time where the doping case is still being contested and seeing strange developments (e.g. just yesterday: [1]). ALT2 fails to mention what the hearing was about.

Also, the current version of the article lede has NPOV problems regarding its coverage of the doping concerns (failing to explain what was controversial about the 2018 test in the first place, and highlighting the exculpatory ruling by FINA without mentioning that it is currently being contested by WADA). Regards, HaeB (talk) 14:07, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Important/relevant guidelines to consider per WP:DYKHOOK: The hook should be neutral (all three state facts); hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided (focusing on the (supposedly unintentional) doping, which really only resulted in a three-month ban, would probably violate this rule); and When you write the hook, please make it "hooky", that is, short, punchy, catchy, and likely to draw the readers in to wanting to read the article. Shorter hooks are preferred to longer ones, as long as they don't misstate the article content (in their current states, all three hooks are more or less short, and they are "hooky"). Given the 200-character limit per hook, it would be unfeasible to include doping; it would take too many characters to explain that he was using a recently (at the time) banned substance, but it was for his heart issues and he didn't know it became banned, etc. If we leave details out and use fewer characters, it could potentially be misconstrued or misleading. And to be clear, the recent developments are not for doping; they're for a 2018 incident where supposedly unqualified testers came into his house for an out-of-competition test, and the vials were smashed by Sun's bodyguard after Sun called his lawyer and coach. Bobbychan193 (talk) 19:14, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

For ALT2, I'm already at around 164 characters. Is there a way I can expand it to explain what the hearing was about without going over the limit? Any suggestions? Bobbychan193 (talk) 19:14, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

I will expand the lead to include the recent public hearing. Thanks for the feedback. Bobbychan193 (talk) 19:14, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done Feel free to take a look. Bobbychan193 (talk) 19:21, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

@HaeB: I understand your point, but DYK policies and longstanding consensus forbid featuring overly negative hooks about living people, and a hook highlighting an ongoing investigation about an alleged wrongdoing (of which he was already acquitted once) will not be approved. Even with a conviction, hooks featuring such negative aspects are often rejected. I just recently tested the waters with a corruption case, but the hook mentioning the investigation was predictably passed over. -Zanhe (talk) 20:17, 20 November 2019 (UTC)