Talk:Zabag (ancient territory)

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I don't understand why Phillippines claim that Zabag or Sanfotsi was located in the Phillippines. Cite the source please, because its already well established that Zabag or Sanfotsi was none other than Srivijaya empire in Sumatra, Indonesia.Gunkarta (talk) 16:57, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know anything about this, but I found a source with some info -- look at Paul Kekai Manansala (2006), "Appendix F. Location of the Kingdom", Quests of the Dragon and Bird Clan, Lulu.com, ISBN 9781430308997. Search for further mentions of Zabag and Philippines in the online Google Books preview. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 02:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I still find this Philippines "claim" or proposition as possible location of Zabag/Javaka is quite unpopular and a long-shot theory provided by some Philippines writers/historians (the reference-site provided through a blog too, which is unappropriate reference). It only based on similar sounding toponym or place name from foreign sources, since there is no historical inscription or evidence (inscriptions, temples etc) founds in Philippines as evidence about Javaka or Zabag existence in Philippines. Yet I try to do justice by mention it as one of theories about "possible location" (Gunkarta (talk) 17:16, 23 June 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Do we have any reference/s that Zabag is no longer considered to be theorized a part of the Philippines? Philippine idea was based upon the original authors of the Chinese accounts themselves. http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/sanfotsizabag.htm Being in historical conflict doesn't mean we should believe on primary sources. First point of view is that it is in China, second is that it is in the Khmer lands (Cambodia) and the third is in the Philippines.--The Wandering TravelerWIKIPROJECT UNIVERSITY OF THE PHILIPPINES NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT! 06:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Scholars do not know where Zabag was. Both the Chinese and Muslim accounts could refer to just about anywhere in the South China Sea Basin. The only mention of the Philippines in the online reference above is pure conjecture - not at all scholarly, and not found in the original sources themselves.

No doubt many people still dream that Zabag was Filipino, just as many people still believe the Code of Kalantiaw was a genuine Filipino document. But the first actual reference to the Philippines is from the Chinese in 972.

"The Sung Dynasty was almost literally supported by tariff from revenues on overseas trade, so it is not surprising that from this period comes the first positive reference to political states in or near the Philippines. An entry in the official Sung History for the year 972 records the first administrative action ... ^[1].

Scott needs to be read in full by any serious historian of Filipino pre-Spanish history. Gubernatoria (talk) 09:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No offense, but I still finds the theory suggesting Zabag (as it was called by Arab traders) or Javaka was located in Philippines is vague, weak, and rather baseless. There is no credible history books by established historians mentioned about this. No strong references to back it up. There's only several (Philippinos) blogger/writers that suggesting this "dream" theory. Until there's credible books back it up or strong archaeological findings and inscriptions in Philippines support this theory, the Philippines theory just like a fantasy. Not worth to be mentioned in encyclopedia article. (Gunkarta (talk) 16:06, 1 July 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

I suggest this article should be merged with Javaka. As far as I've red from some Indonesian and International history books about ancient Indonesian Archipelago and Malay peninsula, "Zabag" and "Sribuza" (Srivijaya) was the name for the same kingdom according to Arabic sources. While "Javaka" is Sanskirt Indian spelling associated with "Javadvipa" or "Java". Also often associated with "Suvarnadvipa" (isle of gold). Most of historian agree that Zabag and Javaka is the same entity and refer to historic Srivijaya empire, why did this kingdom become separated Javaka (in Thailand project) and Zabag kingdom (in Philippines project). To serve each countries political-historic claims? (Gunkarta (talk) 17:00, 23 June 2010 (UTC))[reply]