Talk:West Auckland, New Zealand/GA1

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Reviewer: Mertbiol (talk · contribs) 13:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will take on this review. The article has a lot of detail on the ecology and the physical geography of West Auckland, which is very interesting to read. Mertbiol (talk) 13:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

General comments

My main concern is the scope of the article as it currently stands. I have had a look at Māngere Bridge (suburb) as a guide to what should be included in articles of this type. (This was also nominated by user:Prosperosity and became a Good Article in January 2022.) I think the following sections would need to be added to West Auckland, New Zealand in order to satisfy criterion 3a (breadth of coverage):

I think this is a fair amount to add, so I will pause my review here, to let the nominator respond. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 13:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I can easily add the demographics, but for the core area of West Auckland they are already included at Waitākere ward. If Whau ward is also considered to be part of the area, I can generate stats for the two wards. I don't consider Albany ward to be part of West Auckland, but parts of Rodney ward are and we would have to go to SA2 statistical areas to generate the demographic stats. There would be several dozen SA2 areas in West Auckland but I can easily combine the wards and the individual SA2 areas from Rodney. I need suggestions from Properosity about which ones to include.-gadfium 18:55, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Gadfium: It's a little bit more difficult as West Auckland isn't a formally defined area, so we'd need to make a judgement call as to what counts. The most consistent definition in reports/studies was Waitākere ward+Whau ward, which missed out places like Hobsonville/Kumeu in Upper Harbour and Rodney (and older pre-2010 demographic definitions were of Waitakere City, missing out Avondale/Huapai/Kumeu). I'm not sure if there's a good answer here, as if we made a broader definition, we'd still be making a call on, say, if Helensville is a part of the definition.
The best definition I could work out (based on what areas were referred to as "West Auckland" in the press) was Waitākere ward, Whau ward, then following the upper harbour inlet north-west: eastern West Harbour (half of the suburb is in Upper Harbour), Hobsonville, Herald Island, Whenuapai, Riverhead, then a line to the west for the townships of Kumeu, Huapai, Waimauku, Taupaki and Muriwai. Sometimes south Kaipara settlements are included (Kaukapakapa, Helensville and Parakai), but I personally think this is a stretch.

--Prosperosity (talk) 21:09, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. If anything's not right, let me know. The only tricky thing was that one statistical area is partly in Waitākere ward and partly in Rodney.-gadfium 01:17, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mertbiol: Sure thing, I can make sections on these. --Prosperosity (talk) 21:09, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mertbiol: Here you go, I've added all these sections. Do you think anything needs to be added or changed? --Prosperosity (talk) 05:33, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Prosperosity: Thanks very much for adding those additional sections. A couple of points for now:
  • There are a few references missing in the article as it stands, particularly in the "Amenities" and "Notable people" section.
  • I would suggest renaming the "Flora" section to "Ecology" and adding a paragraph on the local fauna. (It seems very odd to mention the plants but not the animals!)
Once you've been able to work on these aspects, please let me know and I'll start going through the article in detail.
Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 09:47, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mertbiol: Done! Let me know if there are still any statements you'd like additional sources for, or if there are any more problems. --Prosperosity (talk) 00:41, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks @Prosperosity: I am aiming to have some comments for you by Sunday morning your time. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 21:00, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Map

Map
Map of West Auckland showing the former Waitakere City (1), Avondale (2), Hobsonville (3) and Titirangi (4).

This isn't a GA requirement, but I thought it might be useful to include a larger-scale map in the "Definition and etymologies" section. You are welcome to use this one if you like (feel free to alter as you wish) or to ignore this suggestion entirely! Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 12:45, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I was hoping to add a map of overlapping definitions showing zones a little similar to the Auckland volcanic fields map, of the old Waitakere City boundaries + modern Waitākere ward/Whau ward + any areas called West Auckland outside of this definition, but it's a little beyond my OpenStreetMap skills. --Prosperosity (talk) 20:43, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

General comment

  • There is quite a lot of MOS:OVERLINKING in this article. I have tried to catch as many repeated links as I can, but please check to make sure that none are missed.

Lead section

  • I suggest adding "now" to "and now one of the largest regional parks in New Zealand." checkY
  • I suggest deleting "on the lands" from "The metropolitan area of West Auckland developed on the lands between the Waitākere Ranges to the west..." checkY
  • Waitākere Ranges is linked twice in the first paragraph. checkY
  • I suggest moving "in areas such as Massey, Henderson, New Lynn and Glen Eden" to a new sentence starting "It covers areas such as Massey..." checkY
  • I suggest linking "portages" to portages of New Zealand. checkY
  • Please eliminate the repetition of "developing"/"developed" in the final sentence. You could use "began to expand" for the second occurrence. checkY

Definition and etymologies

  • The sentence starting "The Whau River and Te Tōanga Waka (the Whau portage)..." is very long (49 words). Can you split it into two please? checkY
  • Likewise, could you split the sentence starting "Hikurangi referred to the central and western Waitākere Ranges..." please? checkY
  • Please link Polynesia. checkY
  • Please delink the second occurrence of Waitākere River. checkY
  • I suggest deleting "The name" from "The name Whakatū is the traditional name for the Tasman Sea". checkY
  • Is there a "the" missing from "and the west coast beaches of West Auckland south of Te Henga / Bethells Beach"? checkY
  • Please delink the second instance of Te Henga / Bethells Beach, New Lynn and Henderson. checkY
  • Should "the" be deleted from "now the Auckland city centre"? checkY

Geography

  • There is a {{clarification needed}} tag in the first sentence. I don't think this is particularly unclear, but it might be better rephrased as: "...most of the Auckland Region was lowered 2,000–3,000 metres below sea level, forming a sedimentary basin." checkY
  • Please delink Waitākere Ranges. checkY
  • Please delink New Lynn, Te Atatū and Hobsonville. checkY
  • Would "topography" be better than "shape" in "The modern shape of West Auckland..."? checkY
  • Please delink the second instance of Waitematā Harbour. checkY
  • Please eliminate the repetition of "west coast" in "Sand dunes formed along the estuaries of the west coast, creating west coast beaches such as..." checkY
  • I suggest changing "had" to "has" in "which had drifted northwards" and adding "has" to "which has travelled down the Waikato River as sediment." checkY

Ecology

  • Please change "were" to "was" in "were historically dominated by..." (first sentence, first paragraph). checkY
  • I suggest changing "native orchid species" to "native orchids" to reduce repetition of "species". checkY
  • I suggest changing "many of which self-naturalised by seeds being carried by winds from the east coast of Australia" to "many of which self-established from seeds carried by winds from the east coast of Australia." (This may be an ENGVAR issue, but to me, "self-naturalised" would imply that a small population was deliberately planted, which then spread via seed dispersal.) checkY
  • Please delink Waitematā Harbour. checkY
  • Please place commas either side of "such as Henderson, Te Atatū Peninsula and Whenuapai". checkY
  • Please delink Henderson. checkY
  • I suggest changing "nikau palm trees" to "nikau palms" to reduce repetition of "trees". checkY
  • I suggest changing "the Waitakere Ranges is home to…" to " the Waitakere Ranges are home to…". checkY
  • I suggest changing "which are impacted by introduced predatory species…" to "which have been impacted by introduced predatory species…". checkY
  • I suggest changing one of the instances of "reintroduced" to "re-established" (if possible) to reduce repetition. checkY
  • In the geography section, you did not capitalise "West Coast beaches". checkY (unsure why I did this!)
  • Please delink Whau River. checkY
  • Please remove the excess bracket in " ((īnanga) ". checkY

Human context

Origins

  • I suggest changing "early in Maori history" to a date range, as I think this would be more helpful to non-New Zealanders and it would reduce repetition of "early". ?
There's debate as to when these events happened (archaeological evidence vs. traditional genealogies). The most commonly cited figure from carbon dating/ethnology is c. 1350 (and traditional genealogies date back to the 1200s), but at the moment there's emerging evidence that settlement may have been earlier. It's quite difficult to find a source that will capture this within either an Auckland context, or in the context of specific waka (establishing concrete dates for waka arrivals might be impossible). Finding an up-to-date source that also talks about this in an Auckland context is difficult, but if there is one in the future I'd love to add it.
I've fixed the wording a little, does this work? --Prosperosity (talk) 10:22, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should "Early Polynesian navigator Kupe..." be "The early Polynesian navigator Kupe..."? checkY
  • Please reduce repetition of " Kupe". (I presume you could use he or him for one instance?) checkY
  • I suggest changing "was known to visit the region after arriving in New Zealand" to "was known to have visited the region after arriving in New Zealand" checkY
  • Please split the final sentence of this subsection into two, as it is currently very long (52 words). checkY

Early settlement

  • Please delink Waitākere River and Auckland isthmus. checkY
  • Please change "well known for their abundant seafood..." to "well known for its abundant seafood...". checkY
  • I suggest changing "due to the existence of..." to "including...". checkY
  • Please add the to "in the modern urban centres of West Auckland." checkY
  • Please delink Waitematā Harbour. checkY
  • Please delink the second instance of pā. checkY

Te Kawerau ā Maki

  • Please delink Helensville. checkY
  • Please split the second sentence of the second paragraph (starting "While initially relations between the iwi were friendly...") into two. checkY
  • Please delete "as" from "border of the rohe as between...".checkY
  • Please change "on" to "of" in "east on the Tāmaki isthmus." ☒N
They were on the isthmus, which is to the east of West Auckland. Is it clearer with a comma? --Prosperosity (talk) 10:30, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest changing "remained a neutral party..." to "remained neutral...". checkY
  • I suggest changing "where Waiohua paramount chief Kiwi Tāmaki was killed..." to "in which the Waiohua paramount chief Kiwi Tāmaki was killed...". checkY
  • I suggest changing "During early European contact in the late 18th and early 19th centuries..." to "In the late 18th and early 19th centuries..." to reduce the repetition of "European" and "contact". checkY
  • Please delink Te Henga / Bethells Beach. checkY

The Cornwallis settlement and the establishment of Auckland

  • Please split the first sentence into two. (It is currently 61 words!) checkY
  • Please delink the two instances of Ngāti Whātua in this subsection. checkY
  • I suggest rephrasing "as a logging, trading and shipping settlement" to "focused on logging, trading and shipping" to avoid repetition of "settlement". checkY
  • Please delete "an" from "advertised as an idyllic and fertile". checkY
  • I suggest changing "The settlement collapsed by 1843..." to "The settlement had collapsed by 1843..." checkY
  • I suggest deleting "to develop" from "as a location for the capital of the colony of New Zealand to develop." checkY
  • If possible, please rephrase the final sentence to avoid the repetition of "Te Kawerau ā Maki". checkY

Early settlements

Waitākere Ranges dams and regional park

  • I suggest changing "water droughts" to "droughts". checkY
  • I suggest changing "which finished construction" to "which was completed". checkY
  • Please delink Waitākere River. checkY
  • Would "sparked the campaign" be better than "sparked the movement"? checkY
  • Please change "which had been reserved by the Auckland City Council..." to "that had been reserved by the Auckland City Council...". checkY
  • Please link Auckland City Council. checkY

Urban development

Demographics

  • Please add a footnote to make clear which definition of West Auckland you are using in this section.
    I've added a footnote to the section.-gadfium 20:29, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Landmarks and features

Education

Transportation

  • Please delink Auckland city centre (two occurrences in this section). checkY
  • Should "the" be deleted from "the Auckland city centre"? ?
It seems fine to me! --Prosperosity (talk) 10:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Amenities

Stopping here for now

I will aim to provide further comments by Tuesday morning your time. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 17:38, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I've started making changes (should be done later tonight). I'll be on a flight tomorrow, but I'll see if I can ask someone else to help make the final changes. --Prosperosity (talk) 05:23, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mertbiol: All done. The only major issues are:
Dates for settlement: as I said above, it's an ongoing debate and so any sources specifically talking about West Auckland (or Auckland in general) aren't necessarily the best. If there's a good source in the future, I'd love to add it. --Prosperosity (talk) 11:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Both "the Auckland CBD" and "the Auckland city centre" sound very natural to me. There are a few names for the central city, but almost always people use "the". --Prosperosity (talk) 11:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notable people

  • This isn't a GA issue, but my personal preference for "Notable people" sections is to give the years of birth and date for each individual and to indicate their connection to the area/settlement. For example:
    • Ian Scott (1945–2013) artist, grew up in West Auckland from the age of seven[ref]
It's completely up to you if you want to implement this now, later or not at all. ☒N

To keep consistent with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81ngere_Bridge_(suburb) as relative template for GA in other Auckland suburbs, will leave this suggestion unimplemented for now and if changes are made in future it would make sense to apply to all Auckland suburb articles, thanks. Dactylantha (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delinked, thanks. Dactylantha (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Local government

  • I'm not sure what the convention is for New Zealand settlement articles, but I would suggest moving this section up the page, possibly so that it come before the "Demographics" section.
  • I suggest moving "in the 1860" to after "established across the Auckland Province", so that the first sentence reads: "Road boards were the first local government in West Auckland, which were established across the Auckland Province in the 1860s due to a lack of central government funding for road improvements." checkY
I took the liberty of implementing this change, and also trimming 'which' to create a reduced relative clause and limit repetition.
On the note of repetition, it might be worth restructuring the sentences in this section to begin with words other than "In"? Dactylantha (talk) 22:47, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Have also removed Rodney as per repeated links guidelines in [[MOS:OVERLINK], please let me know if this was incorrect or inappropriate. Dactylantha (talk) 00:55, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The final sentence of the third paragraph is unreferenced. checkY
This item was left unticked, but I could see a reference regarding Bob Harvey's term as mayor. As such I have marked this off, but the reference is not my work. Dactylantha (talk) 00:55, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The final paragraph of this section is entirely unreferenced. checkY
Have added references, but unsure if compliant with WP:NOR guidelines. I pulled information directly for Auckland City Council and believed this may be permissable as a reputable primary source? Open to feedback if incorrect. Dactylantha (talk) 00:55, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Westies

  • I suggest that this section is moved up to the "Definition and etymologies" section. checkY
  • I suggest changing "the stereotype usually involves a macho..." to "it usually refers to a macho..." (to avoid repetition of "stereotyp-").
While this comes from a reliable source, the statement about 'Westies' here seems to be the opinion of the original author on Te Ara and not is not directly referenced. I have made some changes to the structure of this section so that it feels more balanced and less negative. Dactylantha (talk) 02:44, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest deleting "famously" from the final sentence.checkY

Potential plagiarism issues

Earwig's Copvio Detector has picked up a couple of issues. Please rephrase (both are from the "Human context" section):

  • "the New Zealand Brick Tile and Pottery Company diversified into china production to supply local markets and American troops." checkY
Rephrased, please let me know if there are any issues. Dactylantha (talk) 02:52, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the 1920s and 1930s, airfields were developed on flat land at Hobsonville and Whenuapai for the New Zealand Air Force." checkY
Rephrased, please let me know if there are any issues. Dactylantha (talk) 02:52, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

End of first pass

I have now run through the article once from start to finish. I have been checking references as I go, but I will do a formal spot check on the next pass. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 17:01, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mertbiol: Thank you! I'm back in New Zealand now, so I'll go over the reference checks right away. Sorry for the delay! --Prosperosity (talk) 22:02, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass through the article

  • Please reduce repetition of "area" in the first sentence of the second paragraph of the lead section. checkY
  • Should "The Whau River and Te Tōanga Waka (the Whau portage) marked the border between the former Waitakere and Auckland cities had divided Eden County from Waitemata County since 1876." be "The Whau River and Te Tōanga Waka (the Whau portage) marked the border between the former Waitakere and Auckland cities and had divided Eden County from Waitemata County since 1876."? (First paragraph of the "Definition and etymology" section) checkY
  • This might be an ENGVAR issue, but should "was lain on this rock" be "was laid on this rock"? (Second paragraph of the "Definition and etymology" section)
Both seem correct, but I'll go with laid (no big issue). --Prosperosity (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should "and the name of the ancient walking track linking the peninsula to the central Tāmaki isthmus" be "and the ancient walking track linking the peninsula to the central Tāmaki isthmus is named after him"? (Last sentence of the "Origins" subsection) checkY
  • Should "different early Māori people" be "different early Māori peoples" (i.e. plural "peoples")? (First paragraph, "Early settlement" subsection) checkY
  • I suggest linking influenza. (final paragraph of "Te Kawerau ā Maki" subsection) checkY
  • Reference [2] redirects to a generic "Archives databases unavailable" message. Is it possible to add a link to an archive URL please? checkY
  • Reference [4] (Waitakere Area Principals' Association) appears to be a dead link.
It works for me! Is it okay now? --Prosperosity (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference [12] (Locality Population Snapshot West Auckland) redirects to a generic "page not found" message. Is it possible to add a link to an archive URL please? checkY
  • Reference [31] (Review of Mayor Bob Harvey's book) does not appear to support: "Many people from West Auckland self-identify as a Westie with pride, despite historical use as a pejorative term."
How about this? Removed the unsourced section. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference [39] (National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research) does not appear to support "the Tasman Sea shoreline was over 20-kilometres west of its current location".
The image in the reference does. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference [53] does not appear to support "Tiriwa, a chief of the supernatural Tūrehu people".
Added reference. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference [67] redirects to a generic "Page not found" message. Is it possible to add a link to an archive URL please? checkY
  • Reference [73] (New Zealand Herald) does not appear to support "subdividing 220 plots of land in the area".
That's from the Redman source. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference [80] (The Whau: Our Streams, Our River, Our Backyards) appears to be a dead link. Is it possible to add a link to an archive URL please? checkY
  • Reference [81] (Names & Opening & Closing Dates of Railway Stations) redirects to a generic "No results found" message. Is it possible to add a link to an archive URL please? checkY
  • Reference [148] (Names & Opening & Closing Dates of Railway Stations) appears to be a dead link. Is this the same document as reference [81]? checkY
  • Reference [180] (Previous Local Government Agencies) redirects to a generic "Archives databases unavailable" message. Is it possible to add a link to an archive URL please? checkY
  • I have checked the following references (OK unless noted): [1], [2] (see above), [3], [4] (see above) [5], [9]. [10], [11], [12] (see above), [13], [14], [18], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], [27], [28], [29], [30], [31] (see above), [32], [33], [39] (see above), [44], [46], [47], [49], [50], [53] (see above), [54], [55], [56], [67] (see above) [73] (see above) [74], [76], [80] (see above), [81] (see above), [85], [87], [97], [98], [99], [100], [101], [102], [103], [104], [105], [106], [107], [108], [109], [110], [111], [112], [113], [114], [115], [116], [117], [118], [119], [120], [121], [122], [123], [124], [125], [126], [127], [128], [129], [130], [132], [133], [134], [135], [136], [137], [138], [139], [140], [141], [142], [143], [144], [145], [146], [147], [148] (see above), [149], [150], [151], [152], [153], [154], [155], [156], [157], [158], [159], [160], [161], [162], [163], [164], [165], [167], [168], [169], [170], [171], [172], [173], [174], [176], [177], [178], [179], [180] (see above), [181], [186], [187], [188], 189], [190], [191], [192].
  • The potential copyvio issues have been addressed satisfactorily.
  • All images are appropriate, have suitable captions and are correctly licensed.

That's all for the second pass. In view of the number of issues with references, I don't feel able to formally put the review "on hold" at this stage. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 12:41, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mertbiol: All done! Let me know if you have any concerns or if there are any other issues that crop up. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Final verdict

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

It has been a pleasure to review this very interesting and highly informative article. It is well written and appears to cover all aspects of West Auckland in depth. Congratulations to @Prosperosity: for their hard work to bring this nomination forward. I have no hesitation in promoting this article to GA status. Great job!!! 18:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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