Talk:States of Ambazonia

This article was nominated for deletion on 15 March 2023. The result of the discussion was Delete and redirect to Ambazonia.

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I see no evidence that the flags of Ambazonia's counties are not entirely fictional. They are not present in the source provided. Unless the uploader can provide evidence that Ambazonian separatists actually use them, they have to be marked for deletion.

For the rest of the article, I would propose a merger with Ambazonia. If we have to remove the flag section and if we exclude everything that is not already mentioned in the main article, there is not much left to warrant a separate article. It would, however, make a fine section in the main article; the "Administrative structure" section is almost empty. Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 19:14, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mikrobølgeovn: The article appears to mostly rely on primary sources, i.e. AmbazoniaGov (which represents only one of four rival governments!). Some listed refs do not seem to support anything told in the article at all; for example, the BBC source does not talk about flags. After a quick overview, the entire article seems extremely problematic. The article should either just be deleted or only merged with Ambazonia after substantial cutting; I would argue that we should condense the content into a small section "Proposal states", with clear attribution as to which sources claim what. For instance, I have found just one non-primary source on a proposal "Midland State", namely here; no idea how reliable this source is. Applodion (talk) 23:16, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vilaminta: Do you have a comment? I hate to throw cold water on your work, but like Applodion said, parts of this article can be modified and merged with Ambazonia. Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 14:26, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Let's merge. Vilaminta (talk) 05:18, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Actually, I've just filed an AfD for a straight redirect, without a merge. Just about none of this content is either usable, sourced to secondary reliable references, or non-fictional, and the main article itself is horribly bloated and needs dramatic slashing. (To be quite blunt, the fanciful assertions on its website of future governmental structures from a handful of guerillas is perhaps more grounded in reality than the creations of cosplayers, but not too much more so.) Ravenswing 01:00, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I just wanted to say that I think the section on 'States and Counties' is mostly unsubstantiated.

I tried to start the transition of merging 'States and Counties' with the section called 'Administrative structure' in the main Ambazonia article as suggested by @Mikrobølgeovn, but I agree with @Applodion that most of the article seems to be based on unknown and unreliable sources, or even fully manufactured.

The entire first paragraph about three autonomous regions isn't attributed to any source, and the only place I could find any evidence of this proposed plan was the states map on the AmbazoniaGov [Source 1] and in the news article by Bareta News [Source 2]. On the other hand, the proposed constitution on the AmbazoniaGov https://www.ambazoniagov.org/images/docs/Interim-Constitution-of-the-Federal-Republic-ofAmbazonia.pdf website states that the number of states will be chosen in an election after independence! (It says so on page 24, article 1, section 1.b )

Furthermore, all the following text in the article on how councils and local leaders are elected and the limits they have on power are not substantiated anywhere! There are few sources given on many of the sentences describing complicated transitions of power and the election process, but where there are sources they lead back to Bareta News, a unknown and unproven source of information. Even worse is that the additional sources of the Amba Peace Plan [Source 39] and States [Source 1] pages on the website don't actually describe anything written in the article! The whole information about State Councils, District Officers, LGAs aren't explained or are not even mentioned in the sources given! The only real substantiated truth I could find is that there are 13 counties.

However, I think the biggest issue is that most of the information is being portrayed as being abstract truth, or that these processes and ideas are about to be implemented. Instead, all of this information is currently only proposed, and being proposed by a party that is outside of power. As a result, I think the article should be written in a way that sounds like it could possibly happen. For example, 'Ambazonia is' a federation made up of Three Autonomous States, we could instead say that 'a proposal by members of the Ambazonia Interim Government in exile states that The Federal Republic of Ambazonia would be a federation made up of three autonomous states'.

What are your thoughts on this? SamuraiArmada (talk) 03:09, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SamuraiArmada Unfortunately, I think you're right. I wonder if it would be better to merge most of this article Ambazonia Governing Council and Interim Government of Ambazonia. As for the large chunks of text that appear fabricated, I have tried to address this a number of times on different talk pages. The section with a flag gallery (which I have deleted twice) was completely unsourced. Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 12:10, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How about we rename the politics section to "Proposed Ideas on Ambazonian Systems of Goverment". In this section we can discuss the proposed ideas of the Ambazonia Interim Government in exile in Nigeria, how their press releases propose a federated system, and their loose ideas of a president, prime minister, clan council and senate, as well as supreme court. However, I do no think we should include any ideas on formation about election and intricacies of government as none of these claims can be substantiated by any source connected with any of the multiple Ambazonian rebel groups, or can it ever be really introduced due to the fact they are not in power. I feel this information should also be given an a subsection of this section, warning the reader that this information is very loosely worded and that many of the other factions have given contradictory ideas or have not even given any resources to such an idea as a Constitution. SamuraiArmada (talk) 15:07, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because it is a plausible redirect, and as such is ineligible for CSD. Ravenswing 11:18, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I have redirected it to Ambazonia. -- MelanieN (talk) 14:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]