Talk:Ncuti Gatwa

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You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Surely, nationality is about which passport someone has. Rwandan-Scottish may be perceived as an ethnicity, but not a nationality. British is the correct nationality. Francis Hannaway (talk) 13:45, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rwandan-Scottish for the lede, and United Kingdom for the infobox, this is the format used for British citizens who specify a home nations identity.Halbared (talk) 20:29, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. He has Rwandan nationality. 2. If a Scotsman moved to Japan and took Japanese nationality, who would consider him to be Japanese? Rustygecko (talk) 20:06, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It can be done. Japanese nationality law#Acquisition and loss of nationality. Adakiko (talk) 13:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Over three years ago, I sourced an article where Gatwa identifies himself as a Brit. It was later removed. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 10:10, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Current citations for "Rwandan-Scottish"

Two sources give Ncuti Gatwa as "Rwandan-Scottish". One of the sources being the The National (Scotland). Why shouldn't Gatwa's be listed as "Rwandan-Scottish"? Regarding dictionaries as sources: wp:Dictionaries as sources.

1. "Black and Scottish — 'I thought I was the only black person in the world'". BBC. 9 May 2022. Archived from the original on 12 July 2022. Retrieved 8 August 2022.
2. Jane McLeod (9 May 2022). "Who is Ncuti Gatwa? Meet the Rwandan-Scottish actor taking over as Doctor Who". The National (Scotland). Retrieved 20 November 2022.</ref>

If a Scottish newspaper calls Gatwa "Rwandan-Scottish", why shouldn't that be stated in the article? Adakiko (talk) 12:59, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As per note a in MOS:BIO#Notes there isn't a preference between referring to someone as British over Scottish and it should be based on what it used in sources. The majority of sources that I've seen refer to him as Scottish so I don't think it needs to be changed to British. Suonii180 (talk) 18:47, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Because he's not Scottish. He has no Scottish ancestry. He is Rwandan. 2A02:C7C:A81D:3100:34AD:5EDF:AED4:B641 (talk) 07:05, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you can cite a reliable source stating that this is an important distinction, we'll take what The National has to say over what you, a random person on the internet, have to say. DonQuixote (talk) 13:11, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The photo currently up is a screengrab from YouTube. I've asked BBC Doctor Who and his agent on Twitter whether they have a better one.[1] Marnanel (talk) 13:54, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good job taking initiative! CreecregofLife (talk) 21:28, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm being VERY generous to CreecregofLife and bringing this to the talk page to resolve. What year should currently be listed in the filmography for Gatwa's first Doctor Who appearance? My answer: 2023. No source that I have seen confirms that he is appearing in the forthcoming 2022 episode - we can reasonably anticipate that he will, but that is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. If there is a source confirming his appearance in a regeneration scene this year, then of course that can be provided and 2022 listed. Until that point, we can only follow what we know. U-Mos (talk) 02:41, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He found out in February. Filming wrapped in March. It's not synthetic to say his first appearance is in 2022. Nothing else would make sense for his reveal to be now if it wasn't the case. CreecregofLife (talk) 02:43, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That is exactly what synthetic is. You've brought two facts together to assume something they don't say. That's not what Wikipedia does. A compromise might be to source his expected appearance in 2022 in prose, which is fine to do, and put "Forthcoming" in the filmography box. U-Mos (talk) 02:46, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bringing two facts together is called a case. Do you have a source saying he takes over in 2023? That his first appearance is in 2023? Because “first adventure” is very specific wording that does not mean what the other two do CreecregofLife (talk) 03:09, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Response to third opinion request:

I don't see any sources given in this discussion for either year, so if neither can bring actual sources to the discussion, neither year should be listed in my opinion. Combining sources like done above does seem like WP:SYNTHESIS to me. Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 15:09, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Right here and here. 2022. Can't pass the torch in 2022 if no one's there to grab it CreecregofLife (talk) 15:27, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I can't help but notice that the second source says: On May 8, 2022, the BBC revealed that Ncuti Gatwa will play the Doctor in the 14th season of Doctor Who in 2023. which does imply to me that the year for Doctor Who appearance should be 2023, even if filming was in 2022. This is consistent with many other filmography articles. Amadeus²² 🙋 🔔 15:35, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Does not say he debuts in 2023, nor does it say he’s filming his first full episodes right now, so I’m not sure how you get that interpretation. We have sources for how regeneration episodes work. We do not have sources that say he debuts in 2023 CreecregofLife (talk) 15:58, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My bad, I didn't mean to say filming started in 2022, it should've been phrased instead as 'even if filming were to have been in 2022' as was proposed earlier. My interpretation relies solely on the fact that the BBC (and undoubtedly other big media too) reported that Gatwa would/will star as Doctor Who in 2023, and as such if this is indeed the majority coverage, we probably shouldn't diverge from this formatting on Wikipedia. Amadeus²² 🙋 🔔 19:26, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Would star. Doesn't mean he doesn't appear before then CreecregofLife (talk) 19:35, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Even if he does, it's a filmography section which should list the 'official' date, which seems to be 2023. I also still don't see a source that says he will do a regeneration episode in 2022, so unless you can provide this I doubt I, or anyone else, would be persuaded by your point of view. Saying it 'doesn't make sense for it to be revealed if it isn't the case' is not even WP:SYNTHESIS but pure speculation. Amadeus²² 🙋 🔔 19:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your entire argument is based on speculation, and yet mine is entirely based on fact. If it “seems” to be 2023 then there’s no factual basis. All facts and precedent tell us it’s 2022.CreecregofLife (talk) 19:44, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

None of the references presented actually and explicitly confirm either year as the actor's debut. Many speculate and call it likely that he'll debut in 2022. Many others say he'll be the Doctor in 2023, but don't say that will be his debut. The solution of not listing any of the two years seems like an appropriate one. Do you have anything against it, @CreecregofLife:? —El Millo (talk) 21:07, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List it as TBA, not “forthcoming”. I’ve never seen anyone use “Forthcoming” in the infoboxes. I did scroll all the way back to freshly-announced Thirteenth Doctor-era Jodie Whittaker (circa June/July 2017) and it listed Doctor Who, even with the debut episode (apparently Twice Upon a Time” was known as “The Doctors”?) as TBA. So with that precedent, that works. CreecregofLife (talk) 21:11, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so it is solved. List it as TBA until it's clear when he'll be debuting in the role. —El Millo (talk) 21:18, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Could we please change 14th to 15th Doctor. John Hurt's War Doctor was the 9th, and it is important to count him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:5884:8601:5C9D:D474:DDE4:F286 (talk) 14:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He’s not in the numbering though CreecregofLife (talk) 14:47, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What does that mean? 2A00:23C7:5884:8601:28C0:EDE0:78E9:BA62 (talk) 19:43, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffat clears up confusion about the number of Doctor regenerations, sort of DonQuixote (talk) 19:46, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It means we’re not jumping from 13 to 15 CreecregofLife (talk) 20:21, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Turns out he is the Fifteenth Doctor, because David Tennant's gap Doctor is Fourteenth. The IP editor was right for the wrong reasons. O.N.R. ^(talk) 09:00, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please keep Doctor Who out of the "known for" section of the infobox until he actually is known for appearing in it. It's currently over 12 months away before we will even see him in the programme. He'll be known for Barbie before he's known for Doctor Who. – Dyolf87 (talk) 09:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

He will not be the fourth Scottish actor, he is not a Scottish national, I'm not sure if he has a British passport, regardless he is only Rwandan, to be Scottish you have to be from Scotland. 2A00:23EE:18E0:38F:829:E471:9E74:3A5E (talk) 08:12, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC and The National say that he's from Scotland (both cited in the lede).

Personally, I trust Sylvester McCoy, Peter Capaldi, Michelle Gomez, David Tenant and Karen Gillan--all of whom are proud that he's Scottish--over some random person on the internet. DonQuixote (talk) 10:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly your citation of 5 individuals, none of whom is on the Trusted Source List, is an opinion, don't you think? And not a NPOV opinion?

The National says Rwandan-Scottish.

BBC says Scottish-Rwandan.

Personally, I find the whole thing unnecessarily confusing as do others, apparently.

Why can't he simply be proud of being Rwandan?

Danindenver (talk) Danindenver (talk) 22:10, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hence why I said 'personally'. Another key phrase 'over some random person on the internet'.

Also, why can't he be proud of being both? DonQuixote (talk) 00:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, would just like to call to attention that in the recent GQ interview, it is stated that "Gatwa’s family moved to Edinburgh from Rwanda in 1995 as refugees. Gatwa was two years old at the time, and doesn’t remember it." All other sources point to them fleeing in 1994, but it is possible the journalists simply looked up the date of the Rwandan genocide and wrote it this way. It is also possible (probably more so) that they fled Rwanda in 1994, and actually arrived in Edinburgh in 1995. Would love if more experienced editors could help work this out. Thanks. JamJamSvn (talk) 22:01, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the Elle article cited he uses the word queer to describe himself. So that should be the word used here. 2A00:23C4:471D:B101:D967:F48F:5D5E:D4E6 (talk) 21:09, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. I've restored this correct description, the one that is verifiable. — Bilorv (talk) 21:10, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As a gay man myself, I find the description 'queer' offensive, unless Ncuti has himself used that term to define himself. 94.173.104.171 (talk) 06:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]