Talk:Naples/Archive 1

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Naples is the largest city of southern Italy. Naples and its suburbs has around 3 million people living there.

Naples is a city rich in traditions, art and history. It has its own language, called "Napoletano". Napoletano is actually mistermed a "dialect" of Italian when in fact Napoletano, as well as other so-called "dialects" such as Siciliano and Veneto, along with Italian itself, are all sister languages descending from Latin.

This city has its origins as a Greek colony and, along with a large part of southern Italy, was part of the Greek based culture of Magna Grecia. It quickly became an important city in the Mediterranean.

Naples was taken over by the Roman Empire and was called "Nea Polis" (Which in Latin means new city). In addition, citizens from Naples are called "Partenopei". They are called Partenopei because a siren died in the port of Naples.

Between 1284 1816, The "Regno delle due sicilie" (Kingdom of the Two Sicilies) was created, dominated by the Spanish.

Naples was controlled by rulers from different countries until Italian Unification in 1860, when it was integrated into the new Italian state. The major influences on this city have been from Greek, Arabic and Spanish cultures, and they have left their mark on the traditions and culture of the city.

Naples is a city rich in music, art and traditional food, and has dominated in Italy and all over the world.

One of the most important traditions in Italy is "Christmas". Every year people prepare a "Presepe" for their house or church. A presepe is a nativity crib of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem. There is a competition around the city for the best one.

Other attractions of the city are: Pompeii from the Roman Empire, the Amalfi Coast and Sorrento. There is also a variety of museums, art gallery, and theatres.

The opening of the funicular railway to Vesuvius was the occasion for the writing of the famous song "Funiculì Funiculà", one more song in the centuries long tradition of Neapolitan songs. Other Neapolitan songs are also famous outside of Italy, for example "'O Sole Mio", "Santa Lucia" and "Torna a Surriento".

Another tradition of Naples is the food.There are so many dishes which have become national and international ones. The most popular are: pizza, pasta, fish stew, ice cream and the traditional food of Naples, witch is based on meat, fish,and vegetarian food. In addition there is a good selection of wines, the most noted are: Lacrima Cristi, Greco di Tufo, Fiano di Avellino.

In conclusion, Naples is a hospitable city, providing entertainment for individuals of all ages, who can find relaxation and excitement and who can enjoy the architecture and the unique style of the city!

What is the point of the above item? It contains errors in fact--or at least oversimplifications-- and has stylistic problems, apparently a rush translation job. ("...They are called Partenopei because a siren died in the port of Naples..." ?? They are called Parthenopeans because Parthenope was a siren in Greek mythology who is said to have washed ashore on the small isle of Megaride after throwing herself into the sea when her singing failed to enchant Ulysses.) It isn't really "talk" about the main article. Just wondering. Jeffmatt 03:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it really encyclopedic to have a list of postcodes for Naples? None of the links in that section even resolve to anything. If no one objects, I'm going to remove this section. —Cleared as filed. 05:01, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

I inserted the landmarks template in the body of the main article while I work on filling in at least some of the main empty slots. This means that there is redudancy between the landmarks as listed in that subsection and the template. I don't know what to do about that except leave it as is for a while until the slots have been filled and then eliminate one or the other. Jeffmatt 03:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I moved the reference to the band Spaccanapoli. It was an ad, obviously put in by someone in the group. I renamed it Spaccanapoli (band). (It now seems to have disappeared.) The main reference Spaccanapoli now leads to a short description of the street, as it should. Jeffmatt 03:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I did away with redundant entries between the lists and the landmarks bar.Jeffmatt 07:09, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Changed my mind. The nav bar is ugly on the page. I replaced all the items in the lists. Little by little, I'll do the ones that need doing. The nav bar, of course, remains at the bottom of the individual items once you go to the page. Jeffmatt 07:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Still filling in the landmarks. I'll add photos later. Jeffmatt 08:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Working on it, working on it. Wikipedia is an ongoing collective effort. I just started a section on demographics. All help is appreciated. Jeffmatt 15:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Napoli has an amazing skyline now. There are many glass towers and office buildings that could match up to many North AMerican cities. We should include more colourful pics to liven up the page including some pics of the city's massive skyscrapers.

Started on that. See Centro Direzionale. Jeffmatt 05:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

To 24.36.36.67. Thanks for straightening out the demographics a bit. I realize I had too much stuff about the province of Naples in there. If you get a user name, we could commicate on our talk pages. Jeffmatt 05:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

What's up there now is useless, I'm afraid. We need some high-quality copyright-free graphics! What else is new. Jeffmatt 14:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Forgot to log in. New paragraph and citation in the "diaspora" section (identified by IP number) are mine. Sorry. Jeffmatt 15:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The section was redundant, having been covered in the "Around Naples" section. There was no text--just a list of links that already exist in the other section. Jeffmatt 10:15, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the recent mob war that has pretty much "engulfed" this city, be on the page? Or at least mentioned???? Is wikipedia running behind a few years or something? [1][2]Superdude99 20:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there is Mafia in Naples, indeed there is something which looks similar but which is rather different, a part of it is called Camorra or even something else like O' sistema (local dialect) by some of the napolitans. 13 November 2006.

I live in Naples, here is born the Camorra, the local Mafia System that have an economy much bigger than the legal one. I'm talking of Billions..it should me mentioned. Reference on the book "GOMORRA" by Saviano. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.18.14.44 (talk) 23:01, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Of course we're running behind! We all have real jobs. Be a real super dude and write an article on it. Good luck! Seriously, where would it go on this page? We'd need a subsection called, perhaps, "Social Problems" (or something like that) with a number of subheadings--unemployment, organized crime, etc--and then a link to respective main articles. I see there is an article at Camorra--a brief item about organized crime. That might be a start: i.e. a "social problems" section with a first link to that item. What do you think? But since the episodes you mention are recent and ongoing, someone might try putting a shorter item up on the "news" section of the main page. I haven't got the time right now. Jeffmatt 08:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice if people would stop loading their own names, or the names of their friends, into "Famous Neapolitans"--out of alphabetical order--and waiting for someone else to do all the research. At least start a stub!Jeffmatt 08:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Al Capone is american of italian (neapolitan) origin, but he isn't neapolitan! User:SpeDIt 0:34, 11 february 2007 (CET)

• It looks out of place. JuJube 02:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I dropped down the climate table at the top so it no longer bleeds over into the info box on the right. That leaves a lot of white space, but it's better than it was. Jeffmatt 18:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I have seen this term applied to not just people specifically from Naples, but the Province of Naples too. Is this correct useage? For example someone from Pozzuoli is a Neapolitan too? - The Daddy 15:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Tthe article currently states: "Neapolitan-Calabrese is the geographically most diffuse Italian language and the Neapolitan dialect ('o napulitano) spoken in Naples is often mistaken with the language itself". These are bold assertions that need explanation and/ or a source. Mariokempes 00:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I've seen the old name spelled "Neopolis" which means "new city" in Greek. Here, it's spelled with an "a". Correct or what?

The food and drink section is now unnecessarily long. I would find it rude if someone reverted my own contributions, so I'm going to kindly request that the recent additions by FBWiki be moved to the article Italian food and the current section reduced to its former length. Sicilianmandolin 11:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

In fact I removed much of it. There were numerous redundancies, typos, errors etc. Much infos can be found in separate articles for which links are present. --Attilios 11:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

for the article on Roma they have the motto of 'Senatus Populusque Romanus', for this one would 'vedi Napoli e poi muori' be the Neapolitan motto? its the one ive heard most. also as roma has 'The Eternal City' would Napoli have 'Partenope'?--SalvoCalcio 04:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I've heard many stories of crime targeting tourists in Naples as well as other criminal organizations. Is there someone who's willing to write a section on this? I can't because I've never been to Naples.Wai Hong 09:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I live here, Naples is the city with the most high crime perception in Italy. It should be mentioned. Last year died over 200 people in gunfights,only in the city. It's unfair to not mention theese facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.18.14.44 (talk) 23:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me, some people talk italian?? however.. i am wondering.. because nobody write here that naples has got most buildings religious in the world.. i think it is a very important factor!! thanks --87.1.15.110 16:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I've reorganized the Naples article a little. I noticed two contradicting figures regarding the number of immigrants in Naples. Does anyone know an accurate number of immigrants in Naples?Wai Hong 14:38, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The link in the partner cities section claims that Kragujevac, Serbia is a partner city, but the flag next to its name is Ukrainian. On the site used as a reference, it's really mentioned as Kragujevac, Ukraine, and Naples is not mentioned as partner city at the Kragujevac article, but I can't find anything about Kragujevac, Ukraine. So, which one is it?--Vitriden (talk) 00:55, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Well the official website says "COMUNE DI KRAGUJEVAC (Ucraina)" which means basically City of Kragujevc (Ukraine), but I cannot find where that city for Ukraine is? It's confusing. - Animagentile (talk) 02:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe that is a mistake. Obviously, there is no larger city named Kragujevac in Ukraine, and I sincerely doubt that city of Naples would become partner city with a village. Therefore, I assume this is Kragujevac, Serbia, and I've made the change, in an honest belief I'm not making a mistake.--Vitriden (talk) 12:19, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

This should be standard in a city article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.17.58 (talk) 12:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Oregano is not an ingredient of pizza Margherita, as can be verified on the cited reference, as well as on this official document. It is, together with tomato, garlic and olive oil, an ingredient of pizza Marinara, the other traditional Neapolitan pizza. See also the relevant italian article. fudo (questions?) 12:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I had to see that unfotunately, looks like some Mafia members are probably controlling this Wikipedia article as nothing is mentioned here in the incipit of the problems of the city that are enormeous. Everybody and mean really everybody knows it, so it's critical in Wikipedia to have mention of it. It's really incredible. This is deliberate continuous disinformation. And if you look in the history you will see that in the last months many people tried to say something about it and it was always systematically deleted. Wikipedia, the mafia-controlled encyclopedia? --78.54.67.192 (talk) 12:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The article already contains a link to Camorra. If you think the Camorra is more pervasive in Napolitan life than you would think judging by the article, you can always fix it, or dicuss it here. Shinobu (talk) 16:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I think 78.54.67.192 seems to be a troll and an uneducated one at that. First of all the Mafia is from Sicily, as Shinobu rightly pointed out Camorra is from Naples. Second of all, Mr. 78.54.67.192... I suggest you take a look around Wikipedia, why are the Russian Mafia not dedicated mention in the intro of Russia? Why are the numerous white nationalist neo-nazi gangs not given a mention in the intro of the United States article? Why are MS 13 not mentioned in the intro of every country in the Americas? Why is Yakuza not mentioned in the intro of Japan? When we have sections dedicated to those things, then we can talk on this one. In any case, the Camorra are already mention... I notice the IP of this person seems to be Germany, the same as the guy who came earlier this month with his unintelligent view of Naples. In the Italian Unification section, if Heir 78.54.67.192 can read, he would see that it says already.

Naples still has some issues, however: high unemployment and landfill management problems, the latter of which has been attributed to the Camorra by the media, a loose confederation of organised crime networks.[38]

Clearly nothing is "covered up" or left out. Its given due weight and directly mentioned. - Gennarous (talk) 03:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

By the way, the Camorra is only a small part of the problem. The real problem lies with local administration and politicians. I'm from Neaples myself, and it is a very well known fact here that *they* are the real problem. Stolen money and corruption = no money for waste management. Multiply for about 15 years and you get... BIG problems. The Camorra (which, btw, is not a family but a system just like the Mafia) "just" allowed unscrupulous industries in Northern Italy to deposit their waste - including toxic waste - here illegally, in exchange for much less money than legit disposal systems would cost. - RV. 18:11, 25 Jun 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.56.57.233 (talk)

Vinci Enzo-Milan there are more murders in Naples that. "Words of Clemente Mastella said today at the joint meeting of the Commissions for Justice and Constitutional Affairs on the effects dell'indulto held in the Senate. The minister has shown four tables compiled by the Directorate General of Statistics of his department on the basis of data provided by prosecutors in Milan, Rome, Naples and Palermo. Between August and October 2006 in Milan there were 27 murders, up from 23 in Naples, as well as the murders committed between January and November of this year are higher in Milan (103) than Campania (75). "So it is, as Pirandello, if you believe ...", Mastella said after the heckling that had Levati classroom.

Compared to these data, the website of the prefecture of Milan will appear others, reporting 21 homicides in the first six months of 2006. A discrepancy, this, which some explained by the fact that data from the Ministry refer to the district, while those of prefectures to the territories of the provinces. But a 'gap' so great between Milan and Naples in the city against Parthenopean affected crime may be explained, according to others, with the possibility that for the first were taken into account data from the district of the Court of Appeal (which includes a larger territory), while the second data from the district of the Court of Naples. So dear jo no embittered you there are people and I know that just vannp out and I repeat I have studied and lived 4 years in Switzerland to speak evil of Naples with the most common ancients (Legacy regard to suggest that this Napoli si'che it is true is the city of music say that 80% of those born in Naples knows sing percchè If not napulitan that is) since 1861, when it was united Italy, with consequent destruction of the southern part of Savoyard system-Piedmont, are in the Po Valley of the most Lerch thieves and crooks, no one ever equality: banks, railways, health, transport, ports, airports, procurement, prisons of gold, humanitarian missions, parmalat, tangentopoli, Unipol, Argentine bonds, Calciopoli, savoiopoli, telecom, etcetera, etcetera. All sectors of public and private life were goals of their ongoing fraud and robbery. In comparison, the mafia, the Camorra and the 'ndrangheta are naive thieves chickens. Now, if it considers it necessary to send the army in Naples to the many killed, it is absolutely urgent to send in the "Padania" UN troops, better equipped to stop this kind of permanent and devastating crime which is the main cause pregnant and underdevelopment and crime in the South. TEN WORST LARGE CITIES FOR MURDER, 2002 CITY FOR 100,000 (1) Washington, DC 45.8 (2) Detroit 42.0 (3) Baltimore 38.3 (4) Memphis 24.7 (5) Chicago 22.2 (6) Philadelphia 19.0 (7) Columbus 18.1 (8 ) Milwaukee 18.0 (9) Los Angeles 17.5 (10) Dallas 15.8

For the record in the United States there are about 35/40mila killed deaths a year, against 800 in little Italy. Whereas States have a population of five compared to ours, which means they will kill on average 10 times more than us.

Vituperatissima the province of Naples, even in the darkest years of clan wars, produces around 100/130 killed deaths a year, for 3 million people, about one-seventh of the national total.

Around 3 / 4 deaths per hundred thousand inhabitants.

In Washington we are at 45 per hundred thousand.

As I said, the clan of Secondigliano, the NCO, the Spaniards, the secessionists, all together passionately, compared to what happens in certain localities U.S. army seem to salvation.

Reflecting on this data before you say, as many Italians, which Naples is insecure, and then booked for Brazil (where the indexes are even worse than Americans. Jo anyway and these people who only speak evil of Naples that you find yourself fight with a Palermo said that Minch naples fired but always, (we are not excuse civil like you) or go away in style to the stadium and you feel called terrone.Jo continues to find what you do and not be sent out to do in the anus If not then do a chapter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.16.34.199 (talk) 11:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC) Già! agree with you does not refer to the Mafia in Sicily, yahuza in Japan, the mafia in colombia or different gang all over the world, you should always throw fand on the city of Naples, because I do not know if there is something wrong must always be a Neapolitan in half. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.16.34.199 (talk) 11:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

• Milan (second municipality for population and first metropolitan area in italy, her metropolitan area include all the province and also other: her density is very hight...)
• Naples (third municipally for population and second metropolitan area for many sources: censis, Onu, Istat, Svimez, etc..., her metropolitan area include all the province and also other: her density is very very hight, first density (in absolutely) in Italy and one of the most densely populated in europe)
• Rome (first municipally of italy for population and third metropolitan area, her metropolitan area not include all the province, absolutely not;for extension is the bigger (3.089, 24 km²) but her density is very very low! summarizing, the metropolitan area of Rome is not very important if comparated with Milan e Naples. Please..... only one source sayd who the second for population (Ocse)--Focak (talk) 13:30, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I believe that Istat is the only offical source, much like the Census Bureau is in the U.S. Here is the Istat page for Napoli, and I am sure that there are similar Istat entries for Roma and Milano etc. http://www.istat.it/istat/attivita/sediregionali/campania/CensimentoNapoli.pdf Unless you cite to this or to a source that cites to this, the never ending editor war about the relative size of Napoli will remain as pointless as it is tedious.Stwiso (talk) 15:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Pointless discussion indeed!!!

Relative size of Naples is taken by demographic census that occurs any 10 years...

Last census took place in 2001, so any further data (from a census to another) that are press released by CENSIS italian official insitute for demographic were calculated with not-direct methods. For example they calculate the number of people that leave the legal address in Naples and subscribe theirselves as legal address in other cities and vice-versa. But it is logic that this number may vary from month to month because of vaste mass of people that buy or sell new houses or keep new apartments for rent, and due to waste of time in refreshing legal address state registries.

I agree with Stwiso. Any other discussion regarding number of citizens in Naples is pointless and meaningless.

With regards, --Raffaele Megabyte (talk) 12:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Offensive behaviour by user Focak

I want to mention that the italian language title of the edit by user Focak stated on 03:26, 4 May 2009 is gratuitous and offending.

Title of the edit says:

Da tenere conto anche di tutti i napoletani non iscritti regolarmente all'anagrafe, è meglio scrivere sempre intorno al milion, per non contare poi gli extra non regolari

A slight translation says:

it is to consider also of all neapolitans that are not listed regularly in the State Registry, it is better to write alwyas "around one million" to avoid counting then not regular extra citizen..."

Is this guy a provoker or troll or something else?

I believe he is just ignorant.

Did he knows that people in Naples actually born usually in hospitals and childs are automatically registered in State Registry by doctors?

People that were unknown to State registry were common in '800 century, for matter of avoid taxations, and there were still random episodes of people that were unknown to State Registry upto 1940, maybe 1950.

Nowadays in Italy if parents refuse to declare a new child, is due to sure heavy mental disease problems, and sure these people are heavy disturbed.

Situations like discovering people not listed in State Registry are nowadays so uncommon in Italy that news like these hit all the press agencies and were discussed by all the media as very strange and curious news...

Perhaps it was discovered one case in Rome about two years ago when social services discovered a mental diseased woman that was 40 years old and never declared by her parents due to they believe it was a shame to have a daughter with mental illness.

Also it is important to mention that alien people present in Italy could often refuse to declare their new born childs to avoid being rejected from italian territory, but this is due to they are not informed of italian law.

Infacts the law in Italy protects the privacy of alien parents in order to preserve mainly the care and health of any new born child, and doctors in hospitals are allowed not to advice italian authorities, but they just register name and surname of the new born child, and his/her parents keeping intact their privacy.

But again the child is inscribed in lists of State Registry.

Do not take with ease the assumption that Italy is a "third world" nation, please, Italy is almost a civilized place, even with all its problems and its extremes.

Sincerely, --Raffaele Megabyte (talk) 12:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

That heading pretty much says it allWikilurk (talk) 02:24, 1 September 2009 (UTC)wikilurk 31 Aug 09

Concerning this edition:

City name	City population (2008)	Urban area[1]	Metropolitan area (ESPON)[2]	Metropolitan area (OECD)[3]	Larger Urban Zone (Eurostat)[4]	Urban Agglomeration (United Nations)[5]
Barcelona	1,615,908	4,185,000	4,082,000	4,900,000	4,233,638	4,920,000
Naples	963,522	3,020,000	2,905,000	3,100,000	2,253,964	2,250,009

Summary: this edition is fake. Barcelona is clearly bigger: 1.6 million on city (Naples: only 0.9 million), urban/metropolitan/agglomeration of Barcelona with from 4 to 5 million, Naples with only from 2.2 to 3.1 million peoples. Inter-man (talk) 17:26, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

It' not! That is the urban region of Barcellona, and that is the agglomeration of Naples, not metropolita area! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.23.144.117 (talk) 16:04, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I wonder how to organize better this section.

The philosoper Benedetto Croce was born in Pesasseroli, but he lived main part of his life in Naples (and died there too), so I included him in the list. But I found also that Massimo Troisi was in the list and he was not born in Naples (he came from San Giorgio a Cremano, a city that is nearby Naples), he has sure a neapolitan culture, but he is not related with Naples city as citizen. I think it must be removed from the list.

Other people that I want to include, because they are strictly related with Naples, but I am dubious, because I do not want to steal other cities their notable citizens...

• Francesco De Sanctis Born in Morra De Sanctis, dead in Naples. Scholar, literary critic, minister of instruction.
• Anton Dohrn, Scientist, German Darwinist and the founder and first director of the Stazione Zoologica, Naples, Italy.
• Giuseppe Mercalli, scientist, volcanologist. Born in Milan, he was professor at university in Naples, and kept the direction of Vesuvius Observatory until his death.
• Giuseppe Moscati, doctor, scientist, saint. Born in Benevento, dead in Naples.
• Vittorio De Sica, actor, director, academy award winner. Born in Sora, died in Paris. His mother was from Naples, and he spent part of his youth in Naples, before World War I. He was higly influenced by neapolitan culture.
• Renzo Arbore, Musician, composer, TV anchorman. Born in Foggia, but studied in Naples and his culture was higly influenced by neapolitan culture.

Sincerely, Raffaele Megabyte (talk) 20:23, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I've checked the sources that are available on the web and thought about this issue more deeply. The founding date of Naples is very much a matter of definition, and even the founding dates of the individual settlements are uncertain:

• Arrival of Greeks in the Gulf of Naples: ca. 9th century (cannot be taken as founding of Naples, of course)
• Megaride: ca. 9th century (but I don't see how it can be identified with Naples)
• A port in the area of Naples: ca. 9th century?
• Cumae: ca. 8th century – or later? (Cumae is not Naples, of course)
• Parthenope: ca. 7th or 6th centuries (but Parthenope is originally a different settlement and was only absorbed by Neapolis later)
• Neapolis: 475 BC (only this settlement has undoubted continuity with present-day Naples)

And of course prehistorical (in this case, pre-Greek) settlements will necessarily have to be ignored.

I think the article should notice the ascertained 475 BC founding date for Neapolis, mention and explain the precursors, but make clear that Parthenope is strictly not the same thing. Thoughts? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Agreed - the sources mostly seem to corroborate that. Feel free to reword the relevant section. Michaelmas1957 (talk) 20:12, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

I secretly hoped that you would give it a try – I'm struggling to come up with a good way of phrasing it, and you seem to be good at it. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:16, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

There - done. What do you think? Michaelmas1957 (talk) 20:34, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

See, that's much better than what I was writing at the same time: "Founded in 475 BC as a Greek colony, close to even older Greek settlements – from as far back as the 9th century BC – that it eventually absorbed, Naples is [...] Named Neápolis (Νεάπολις), which soon merged with the older settlement Parthenope (Παρθενόπη), it was among [...]" – I'm sure you'll agree that is overly complicated and stylistically flawed. I thought about dropping the date from lede altogether (and was about to change that part to "Founded as an ancient Greek colony, [...]"), since it is uncertain and requires overly detailed discussion, anyway, but your solution works fine for me, too. Great job! That's how editing Wikipedia should always be like. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:39, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Glad I could help. Let me know if there's other stuff I can help you with. Michaelmas1957 (talk) 20:53, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The rhodes arrived on the Island of Megaride in the 9th century and founded a "little commercial port". Later, the cumans, trasform "the little commercial port" into a city proper called Partenope. Later, with the Etruscans, Partenope fell into decline. When the cumans defeated the etrucans, partenope came back "to live", and the cumans can be free to expand it, the city. So, was born Neapolis. Neapolis is strongly collegated to Partenope, not another history, another city.

You can find in Italian wiki http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partenope_(storia) (History of Partenope)

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storia_di_Napoli#Napoli_greca:_la_fondazione_di_Partenope (look: "year of fondation: IX-VII sec.)

Sorry my little english.--79.19.83.8 (talk) 21:25, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Strabo says that "naples was founded by the Rodhes" in the 9th century. --79.19.83.8 (talk) 21:28, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The third-party sources cited take precedence over other Wikipedia pages. We're not saying they are utterly separate - more that they were settlements in the same general area which merged over time, which is what the sources state. Michaelmas1957 (talk) 21:30, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

No no no, the experts about history of Naples say:

Later the invasion of the etruscans, Partenope came back "to live". Partenope cannot "enlarge" on the Pizzofalcone hill and the cumans founded a "new city center", so Naples. Later, with the romans, the different between the old and the new city was marked beacause there were the samnite wars. Only in this period. Later, Naples came back the only city... so "new city center" (it was founded for that reason)... Partenope (the old city) came back only "peripheral location". Naples and Partenope is the same thing. Virgilio called Naples Partenope... "Mantua me genuit, Calabri rapuere, tenet nunc Parthenope; cecini pascua rura duces" (Latin) (so, Partenope = Naples).

The sources into italian wiki have taken over other wikipedia!--79.19.83.8 (talk) 21:45, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, cite some third-party sources for that info, if you want to have it added. Michaelmas1957 (talk) 21:48, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

1Book: G.B. Carratelli, Naples out and in the walls, Newton e Compton Editori, Rome 2004

2[3] Naples was the "new city center". There is all here. Bye...--79.19.83.8 (talk) 21:56, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The city – initially known as Neápolis (Νεάπολις) – merged with an earlier settlement named Parthenope It's not exact!--79.19.83.8 (talk) 22:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

What mean Devolopping out ....etc??? No no no... Naples was founded by the Rhodes in the 9th century, as "a little commercial port", and later the cumans transform it into a "city proper" called Partenope. So, Naples was founded between the 9-7th century. So, it is Exact...--79.19.83.8 (talk) 22:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

I've reverted your changes, because they have no consensus on this talk page, and are not supported by the sources, as far as we can determine. If you want to cite an Italian book (I'm still doubtful because it seems to contradict the majority of sources), give us literal quotes (in Italian) and translations (to English), so we can check what the book actually says.

You need to reign in your patriotic zeal; you seem to be bent on increasing the age of Naples, although the sources do not support such an early founding date for either settlement. The view you're supporting would push Greek colonisation further back than is accepted among historians (no earlier than 800 BC: see Magna Graecia#Antiquity, Colonies in antiquity#Greek colonies etc.), and dates this precise are not available in such an early period, which is why I've been careful to write "ca. 9th century" for the port (which was not called Parthenope, as per the available sources, but is not named anywhere!) and Megaride: it is equally possible that they were founded only in the 8th or 7th. It is misleading the reader to state "Naples was founded in the 9th century" as fact in an encyclopedia, because there is no certainty about this, in view of the evidence.

By the way, the Cumans are a medieval Turkic ethnos; the inhabitants of Cumae would probably be called "Cumaeans". Also, the inhabitants of Rhodes are the Rhodians. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:11, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

"Patriotic zeal?" What it means? You are very confused! The Rhodes were in the bay of Naples in the 9th century! It's not a patriotic source! here... this source is taken from Strabo (ancient greek, no italian - Strabo says that "Parthenope was founded by the Rodhes") and the presence of a Doric emporium is confirmed by the monetary system "foceo" distinct from "eubeo" adopted for the first emission cumane!

Later, the cumans transform it into a true city (7th century BC)

This is an Enciclopedy. Is it also a patriotic source?. You are very very confused, you have cancelled everything! Naples was refounded after the decline of Parthenope (during the etruscans hegemony). Parthenope was abandoned, but after the cumans refounded it as "Neapolis", near there... after the battle of Cumae this created a situation of greater freedom to settle on the coasts of Campania and found new settlements. So, Parthenope was refounded.

"Neapolis urbs ante Partenope dicta est prius Phalerum -- Naples was first called Parthenope and before that Falero" (Claverius)

English

English

English "the original name of Neapolis"

English "Parthenope (later Neapolis) in Campania"

English "Naples was founded in the 9th century, but it wasn't a true "colony", but a "small commercial port"... after the cumans transform it into a true city (7th century)...

I put all these informations, please!--79.35.139.226 (talk) 22:02, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

The history of Naples is very complicated!

Many civilizations came and went in Naples (Naples became a city very powerful - in Europe - under the Angevin monarchy: during the bicentenary the monarchy extended its hegemony in Jerusalem, Latin Impire, Kingdom of Unghery, Tunisia, Italy - Florence, Pisa, Rome, Sicily)... later was the capital of the aragonese empire. All this when was the capital city of kingdom of Naples.

Before of the kingdom of naples was the capital of a indipendent ducky and more wars were done again the church, benevento, french, normanns, etc.., and later was the capital city of the kingdom of sicilia... when the kingdom of sicily and naples came back "united", was born the kingdom of two sicilies and later promoted italian unification with the "neapolitan war".

Ps: during the spanish empire naples was also the second city "of the empire after madrid", but was the most populated city of the empire with 400,000 and obviously "very important city". Modern example: Naples = New York Madrid = Washington.

This is the history of Naples after the greeks and romans.--79.26.90.135 (talk) 01:48, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Just to point out that the correct neapolitan demonym for the Neapolitan people is "Napulitano" and not "Nnapulitano" as reported in the article. Nnapulitano is a neuter noun meaning Neapolitan as a language and should not be used when referring to people. BR, Nkloud (talk) 10:40, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

This entire section needs to be re-written in proper English. It also sounds very boastful right now instead of being objective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Craigmoysey (talk • contribs) 15:30, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

The Introduction about history is very poor!

Naples remained influential after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, serving as the capital, etc.. It's ok, but the importance of the greek Naples is very different of the Naples capital. During the greek age, Naples is one of the most important cities of Magna grecia, but later Naples is the CAPITAL of a powerful Kingdom. It's different. Naples was also the capital of Empire (under aragon) and before was the capital of powerful monarchy (see Anjou).

"It is difficult to identify a city or cities with which Naples might be compared. Its cultural roots are so completely different from those of any other Italian city that comparison would be worthless. It is equally difficult to equate Naples with other major Mediterranean cities such as Barcelona or Marseilles. Uniqueness is a quality that is hard to define, but Naples seems to come very close to having it, however defined."

(ICOM State of Conservation of World Heritage Properties in Europe here)

Naples derseves better!!--79.32.137.12 (talk) 23:54, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

It's true. --Laputa88 (talk) 19:39, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

>> Naples Flirts With Detroit Fate as Budget Rejected: Euro Credit(Lihaas (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2014 (UTC)).

The influence of organized crime is a factor in Naples, and this article should at least mention that. (For comparison, the article on Pulaski, Tennessee mentions that the KKK was founded there.) (Heroeswithmetaphors) talk 23:07, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

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What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 15:25, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Who named the city? And why? Wasn't it old already? Kortoso EMFDYSI (talk) 17:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

what do you mean with that? be clear please.--Bolzanobozen (talk) 15:58, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

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'Neapolitan tailoring offers comfort and lightness; it was born as an attempt to loosen up the stiffness of English tailoring' i find this comment is an unnecessary insult to English people but most importantly the source given makes no mention of the 'stiffness of English tailoring' as this is unsourced the comment should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.14.189 (talk) 14:21, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Greetings, Per MOS, the article lead is a max of 4 paragraphs. This article has 6 so I'm hoping another editor may be able to combine or reduce some of this content. Sometimes I am able to do this myself but this one could use some expert help. Regards, — JoeHebda • (talk) 13:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Every rule in the manual of style is just the opinion of a few editors (often just one) who liked that rule — disregarding the opinion of the thousands of editors who did not like it, or who are not into writing rules for other editors.
The first rule that people should follow, in all situations, is: "THINK of what would best serve the interests of readers who come to this article." Sometimes the answer is a one-line head section. Sometimes it is a screenful.
In any text, one should break a paragraph whenever there is a change of topic. It makes no sense to join paragraphs just to achieve a numeric target that someone just made up. How woudl that make the article better for the reader?
All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 00:37, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

I have moved this to the talk...

Naples has a waste management problem because the landfills are full. The garbage crisis of 2007 has led to serious health warnings but attempts to ease the problem are being hampered by the Camorra, the local mafia.^[1] The Camorra has infiltrated parts of the waste management industry in Naples, and a significant part of the budget appears to be disappearing into the pockets of the Camorra.

Since the mid-1990s, the Camorra has taken over the handling of garbage disposal in the region of Campania, with disastrous results for the environment and the health of the general population. Heavy metals, industrial waste and chemicals and household garbage are frequently mixed together, dumped near roads and burnt to avoid detection, leading to a severe soil and air pollution. Together with corrupt local officials and unscrupulous industrialists from all over Italy, the Camorra has created a cartel that has so far proved very difficult to combat for officials.

Obviously its notable but I don't think it needs an entire section on it in the article. Its recentism. Maybe it deserves its own article if somebody who knows more about that wants to. I'll make a mention of it in the "modern Naples" section. - Gennarous (talk) 12:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Sitting in Berlin-Germany, right now I do watch a 2 hours documentary about this situation. It mentions all the facts of this development. Naples has now become internationally known for this ongoing crisis of European dimension. I moved back the section to the main article.

Then, as advised create an article on Naples waste management issue. Wikipedia isn't a bulletin site for recent news, its mentioned in passing in the recent history. It does not deserve an entire section of its own see WP:Recentism. Note that Wikipedia city, country, etc articles are written in regards to a historical context. - Gennarous (talk) 12:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe it should be mentionned as it is an internationally well-known issue. On the other hand I'm not all that familiar with WP guidelines on this kind of stuff. On another note, I'm surprised that there's no mention of the mafia in this article; it seems as though it is a major issue (I assume there are more incidents than just the garbage one).

Would there be a problem with creating the Naples waste management issue article and simply copy/paste the above text? A bad article is better than no article (as far as I know) and I feel this issue should be mentionned somewhere. M.nelson (talk) 02:33, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Note that WP:Recentism is not an official policy or guideline of Wikipedia, and I think that most people by now would expect to find references to the waste management issue and other problems, in the main article. Nevertheless, I doubt that putting a short but very emphatic sentence like The city is everywhere in the world synonymous with organized crime and other widespread problems in the introduction is an appropriate solution. Maybe a "Crime and other problems" subsection in the Society section would be better, with "see also" references to Camorra and/or to an article dedicated to the recent waste issues. fudo (questions?) 15:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

So now recent starts before the 90's? Anyway I came to this article precisely to look for some more information on this subject and I was surprised to see no mention of it on Wikipedia at all. I personally don't care if the issue is recent or not, it is still a problem of epic proportions. Garbage not collected for months... in a modern-day city. This is not some obscure factoid that will blow over after a solution is reached, this will be remembered for long after. And because it has its roots in the socio-economic situation of the city, and can be used to illustrate those, it would make for an excellent addition to the article. Let's add it back. Shinobu (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I did the same. I came to this article precisely to find info on this subject. I find myself going more and more to the "discussion" pages on Wikipedia now because the useful information I want is actually placed there and not in the main page. I find it very strange that people choose not to include information in an encyclopedia whose tagline talks about "the sum of all human knowledge". I've submitted the article for creation. --84.151.209.252 (talk) 07:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the idea that this section can be considered WP:Recentism is highly questionable. According to a BBC News article from January 2008, "Rubbish collection is a perennial problem which has plagued Naples and its politicians for some 15 years." Now if that's correct, but if this section is still Recentism despite this, then, by that reasoning, the List of current child actors from the United States should be deleted on the grounds of Recentism too, since a lot of those actors are less than 15 years old, and therefore younger than the "recent" Naples waste problem. 85.210.70.181 (talk) 08:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

See the italian article, specifically this it:Napoli#Problemi della citt.C3.A0. There is a section on the Camorra family and on the garbage problem. These are also both discussed in great detail in the Spanish (es:Nápoles#Camorra y degradaci.C3.B3n urbana) article, which is at featured status. I'm no Italian, and don't know anything about the issues, but I figure that this gives us the green light to start a section in the English language article. Based on this, I have replaced the initially removed text. M.nelson (talk) 03:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The Wiki entry for New York City mentions the 9/11 terrorist attack and the entry for Turin refers to the Winter Olympics held a few years back, as notable events associated with those cities. As a chronic problem afflicting Naples the waste problems is certainly worth mentioning here, especially given its implications.Campolongo (talk) 10:36, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the entry carries mention of Pizza and Sports Teams, but not environmental and health crisis that affects the economics and environmental health of the city, the Metropolitan area, and Compagnia — not to mention its very future. This would the equivalent of describing the cuisine in Chernobyl or Fukishima, but failing to mention history-changing events. 138.180.194.2 (talk) 06:02, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

The comparison with Chernobyl and Fukushima is completely out of place. Chernobyl was a little town and the main thing that ever happened there is the nuclear disaster. The article Fukushima does not even mention the event in the lede, and again it is a small city in relation to the average Japanese city. Naples has been a major political and cultural hub for centuries, therefore the lede focuses on its role in history. About the waste crisis: it should be mentioned in the article (as it is now in the History section), but I don't know if it's relevant enough to have a place in the lede. Similar waste management crises happened in Milan, Rome, Palermo, and other cities, and I don't think anybody is asking to put this in the lede sentence of their articles. --Ritchie92 (talk) 07:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku: I do not know where in the MOS you found your information, but WP:SHORTDESC is clear and positive that the short description should begin with a capital letter. The examples I found in the talk archives bear this out. Elizium23 (talk) 07:42, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@Elizium23: It appears you are right on this point. I was under the impression that I had read somewhere, perhaps the MOS or WP:SHORTDESC, that beginning the short description with a capital letter was discouraged, but the opposite seems to be true. I stand corrected. werewolf (talk) 13:01, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

It's interesting, the effort to keep information about Naples' very salient waste management issues as well as the Cammora 100% out of the article lede LEDE for more than a decade, despite the best intentions of editors to bring up the issues and find a way to include them in the lede. It's somehow ok for the lede to talk about the recent subways expansion, the recent Centro Direzionale, the number of Michelen Stars for restaurants, but it's not ok to include huge issues in the lede for which the city is known worldwide, issues which affects the health and welfare of millions of people, the economic life and future of Italy and characterizes life in Naples... because similar things have happened elsewhere... because these things are recent (they're not)? Given that there's a ten year+ effort to reconcile the nature of these issues with the lede of an article about Naples, some relevant questions to ask about keeping these issues out of the lede are: is it because these issues have negative connotations, and someone is using the article as a promotional piece for the city? Is it because these issues have controversy associated with them and someone doesn't want an unbiased article to include negative information? Are there people with a pro-Naples bias pushing to keep these issues off the front page? At this point the issue should be elevated to a higher editorial review.842U (talk) 11:25, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

• Ritchie92 talk contribs‎ 164,124 bytes +4‎ Reverted 1 edit by Arorae (talk): This revert has nothing to do with the comment; also not true: the comune council has to meet for the first time and then the mayor is officially declared undothank Tags: Undo
  • it is a false assertion, in Italy the comune council do not meet for electing the Mayor, and the MAyor is declated by direct election (see Eligendo site).--Arorae (talk) 10:56, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

@Arorae: Yes I already apologized for that on your talk page and replied to your post on my talk page. Also, I already changed the infobox to reflect the new mayor, and you also thanked me for that edit. So I don't really understand why you are writing this here. Everything is solved by now, there is no need to be polemic. --Ritchie92 (talk) 11:07, 5 October 2021 (UTC)