Talk:Lee Berger (paleoanthropologist)

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Anthropology Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale. Biography: Science and Academia This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the science and academia work group. Palaeontology: Paleontologists Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palaeontology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of palaeontology-related topics and create a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PalaeontologyWikipedia:WikiProject PalaeontologyTemplate:WikiProject PalaeontologyPalaeontology articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the paleontologists taskforce. Scouting Mid‑importance Lee Berger (paleoanthropologist) is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ScoutingWikipedia:WikiProject ScoutingTemplate:WikiProject ScoutingScouting articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. South Africa Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject South Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of South Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject South AfricaTemplate:WikiProject South AfricaSouth Africa articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. United States Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The content of this article has been derived in whole or part from http://www.profleeberger.com/files/cv_2007.pdf. Permission has been received from the copyright holder to release this material . Evidence of this has been confirmed and stored by VRT volunteers, under ticket number 2007052810002629. This template is used by approved volunteers dealing with the Wikimedia volunteer response team system (VRTS) after receipt of a clear statement of permission at permissions-enwikimedia.org. Do not use this template to claim permission.

The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. Profberger (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. This user has declared a connection.

This article was nominated for deletion on 3 July 2007. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

This article reads more like a self-promotion CV for Mr. Berger than a Wikipedia biographical article. It is even structured like a CV! Please check WP:NOT. No self-promotion is allowed here as per WP:BIO. If one looks at the name of the main editor of this article, there is an obvious NPOV conflict of interest as per WP:COI. Finally, the vast majority of archaeologist bios run much much shorter and conform to the idea that Wikipedia articles should be overviews and should avoid irrelevant text. Please check biographies such as Tim White and Erik Trinkaus for more appropriately written bios of an appropriate level of detail. Mumun 無文 17:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mumun

If you will go back to the original discussions on this article you will see that we have discussed this matter in depth - the article did indeed derive from my CV - You will also note that the edits I have been performing have simply been in line with the comments of wikifying it (adding references in an appropriate manner etc.). I am eagerly awaiting an editor to work on this as was suggested, or I would be happy to do so if you would like to make suggestions. I would point out that the argument that others have short bios is probably more of a condemnation of the bio writing than the actual contributions - particularly of the two you mentioned.

Regards,

Profberger 05:17, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Took down the COI banner. I think the bibliography needs improvement -- the text mentions that Prof. Berger has publications related to his research in Nature and Science. These citations should be included since Professor Berger is an anthropologist and the bibliography should contain papers and books that are directly related to his research.Mumun 無文 17:07, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From my perspective, the article would benefit if we could spotlight the specific research accomplishments of Professor Berger rather than the awards. Are there any ways in which we could adjust the text or article structure so that such accomplishments could be highlighted a little more than now? It is not that awards are not important or less relevant, but Professor Berger's research has been profiled in media, where he has been characterised as a relatively young and promising scholar. I don't think awards should disappear, though (far from it -- there are some big awards here), but perhaps merit slightly less attention and could be further copy-edited.Mumun 無文 21:59, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The edits done today were to move the article toward being encyclopedic, rather than being an article based in largest part from self-published material from the Professor's CV, drawn not from independent published biographical and scientific sources, but from his personal (not university or other official) web pages.

Note, little actual substantive content was changed, though, based on BLP criteria, much of the article could be removed as devotedly, perennially unsourced—which automatically makes it contentious in the view of many BLP editors.

Note, one edit performed was to remove part of a statement from the "Further reading" section:

• Portions of this Article were based on Lee Berger's Published Curriculum Vitae

It is entirely inappropriate to attempt to indicate sourcing, broadly in this way, and especially so from a self-published source.

In the course of the editing, two tags were added, then removed because the required edits were made that justified their removal — the URL-only and reference style tags. (All references that now appear are of a relatively uniform style, and are no longer URL-only, at all.)

The three major objections that remain are:

• that vast swaths of this article are sourced only from Prof Berger's self-published CV;
• scientific content is all but solely derived from lay sources (exceptions being a primary Berger source, and one News and Views article);
• the tone of the article remains self-congratuatory, as if the editors (Users) Gladysvale and Lysine007, in addition to the identified Prof Berger (User:Profberger) do not understand the need for independence of viewpoint in these encyclopedia articles.

I would particular suggest that @Profberger: and his select colleagues—those too close to the title subject to be objective—post material to a new section in Talk, rather than edit the article. Otherwise, it will remain an embarrassment, rather than a good article candidate here.

Finally, I invite removal of the section tags, one by one, after each section is sourced and otherwise made encyclopedic, and removal of the article tags after all section tags have been removed as a result of improved article content.

Other editors concerned with misuse of BLP articles by individuals too close to the article subject have been notified of these changes.

Cheers, Le Prof (User:Leprof_7272) 71.201.62.200 (talk) 18:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Lee Rogers Berger. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924082208/http://www.profleeberger.com/files/Taungbirdofpreybc.pdf to http://www.profleeberger.com/files/Taungbirdofpreybc.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160909104329/http://www.profleeberger.com/files/cv_2007.pdf to http://www.profleeberger.com/files/cv_2007.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:19, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Lee Berger and sediba skeleton.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:51, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a section covering the publication of three new papers related to Homo naledi in the journal eLife, including some contextual info regarding Berger's public announcements and reactions, and the peer reviews which are made public in eLife peer review process. On the whole these reviewers were very critical, and the language of this section comes off similarly critical but to the best of my ability everything is properly cited and devoid of subjective language. I'd welcome any input if people have suggestions for improvement or new info regarding Berger's recent publications and related activities with Netflix and the like. Mausfield (talk) 18:34, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]