Talk:John Byrne (comics)

Transgender comments

Byrne's Superman was not the fist comic ever to feature a variant cover, so that statement needs to be amended. See the following: https://www.progressiveruin.com/2022/04/25/there-are-no-biopsies-of-jokes-only-autopsies/


Transgender comments

Since there's already a Controversies section, do people think that Byrne's comments about transgender people rate a mention? This would be the primary source, unless it gets coverage somewhere more notable: http://www.themarysue.com/john-byrne-is-asshat-about-trans-people/

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:John Byrne (comics)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Aintabli (talk · contribs) 03:31, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Happy to review this. Aintabli (talk) 03:31, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). A few sources are comments on forums by John Byrne about his own life, which is not problematic per WP:ABOUTSELF.
2c. it contains no original research.
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
7. Overall assessment.

Spotchecks

  • Though the series proved initially very popular, with its first issue selling 500,000 copies, Source: "The monthly 'Uncanny X-Men' book ... would sell between 400,000 and 500,000 copies per issue, each and every month, like clockwork," @FlairTale, can't find a mention of the "first" issue and the number of copies appears to be slightly lower than that. Aintabli (talk) 14:05, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli Source for the first issue was added. --FlairTale (talk) 19:53, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the late 1970s, while serving as the regular penciller of X-Men, Byrne began penciling another superhero team title, The Avengers. Working for the most part with writer David Michelinie, he drew issues #164–166 and 181–191. Byrne and Michelinie co-created Scott Lang in Avengers #181 (March 1979). Could not find anything relevant to the second sentence. Verified the last sentence, except for the issue number. @FlairTale, please add sources or cite already-existing sources for the unsourced parts.
  • Byrne has cited multiple reasons for leaving the series, including "internal office politics" and that "it simply started to get old". Verified. Aintabli (talk) 23:52, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Byrne later made a story in Action Comics #592–593 where Big Barda (who is based on Kirby's wife Roz) is brainwashed and forced to almost make a pornography with Superman. Verified. Aintabli (talk) 00:20, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli Sources added. --FlairTale (talk) 02:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • He was married to photographer and actress Andrea Braun Byrne for 15 years until divorcing. Braun's son from a previous marriage is fellow professional comic book artist Kieron Dwyer,[115] and Byrne became Dwyer's stepfather when the boy was 13 until Byrne divorced his mother. Could not find any mention of the duration of the marriage in the source. The reference [115] could be moved towards the end of the second sentence, because it mentions that Dwyer was 13 when Byrne married his brother, but the following reference also has it. The beginning of the second sentence should be worded better, because it refers to the same marriage, not "a previous marriage".
  • Byrne encouraged Dwyer's aspirations to be a cartoonist and assisted in landing Dwyer's first professional job drawing Batman #413 (Nov. 1987). Verified except for the issue number and month. Aintabli (talk) 15:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli I couldn't find a source for the exact number of years of the marriage, so that part was removed. I copied the CBR source to the end as well, because it confirms the issue number and date. I'm not sure what you mean by the "same marriage" though. Dwyer is not Byrne's biological son. --FlairTale (talk) 03:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My bad. I misread that part. I read it as if it said "Byrne's son from a previous marriage". ("Byrne" was actually "Braun".) Even then, it should have been "Byrne's stepson". I totally mixed it up, so you're good. Aintabli (talk) 03:28, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • One of Alpha Flight's characters, Northstar, eventually became Marvel's first openly gay superhero. Though Byrne from the beginning intended the character to be gay, Northstar's homosexuality was only hinted at during Byrne's tenure on the series. Verified.
  • In 2015, Byrne was inducted into the Will Eisner Hall of Fame, alongside judges' choices Marge (Marjorie Henderson Buell) and Bill Woggon and elected inductees Chris Claremont, Denis Kitchen, and Frank Miller. Verified.
  • For publisher IDW, Byrne worked on the superhero series FX #1–6, written by Wayne Osborne, starting with the March 2008 issue. His other projects for the publisher include stories for the Star Trek and Angel franchises. Verified. Aintabli (talk) 03:48, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This (the source used for the excerpt above) appears to mirror an article from somewhere else. This is essentially a forum, and the information wasn't posted by John Byrne. FlairTale, could you possibly replace this, preferably with the original article? Aintabli (talk) 04:28, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @FlairTale, I'm planning to ask for some quotes. Which books used in this article (or any not-easily-accessible publication) do you have access to? For example, Modern Masters Volume 7: John Byrne by Cooke and Nolen-Wealthington? Aintabli (talk) 04:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Aintabli It seems that forum was made in response to an existing article. I could not find an archived link for it, so I just replaced the source. I have access to Modern Masters Volume 7: John Byrne. --FlairTale (talk) 03:25, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • He would later become the final person to draw Funky Winkerbean, taking over illustration duties from artist Chuck Ayers for the strip's concluding week, ending on December 31, 2022. This is unsourced.
  • @Aintabli I think someone added that after I nominated the article. I gave that line a source. --FlairTale (talk) 03:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please provide a quote to verify the following:
    • He created the superhero parody Gay Guy for the college newspaper, which poked fun at the campus stereotype of homosexuality among art students. Gay Guy is notable for featuring a prototype of the Alpha Flight character Snowbird. While there, he published his first comic book, ACA Comix #1, featuring "The Death's Head Knight".
    • Jack Kirby's work in particular had a strong influence on Byrne and he has worked with many of the characters Kirby created or co-created. Besides Kirby, Byrne was influenced by the naturalistic style of Neal Adams.
    • Byrne's take was comedic and the She-Hulk, who was aware she was in a comic book, regularly broke the fourth wall, developing a love-hate relationship with her artist/writer by criticizing his storylines, drawing style, character development, etc.
    • Byrne has never done drugs and only drinks alcohol very sparingly.
    • a feature some of these have in common is to have characters who actually age during the course of the series, which is uncommon for characters in ongoing comics.
    • For many issues, he was paired with Claremont, with whom he teamed for issue #11 of the black-and-white Marvel magazine Marvel Preview featuring Star-Lord. The Star-Lord story was inked by Terry Austin and lettered by Tom Orzechowski, both of whom soon afterward teamed with Claremont and Byrne on Uncanny X-Men. Aintabli (talk) 00:47, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • What was the comic that you did in art school?...It was called "The Death's Head Knight."
    • ...when I look at it now is that I had not yet really locked into any of my major influences. It's sort of pure John Byrne, with no Neal Adams, no Jack Kirby, no John Buscema......And what Neal did was take that level of realism and...
    • He asked me to do a new She Hulk book, but he asked me to come up with something that hadn't been done with the character before—something new and different. I thought about it for a while, and then I thought, "Well, how about she knows that she's in a comic book. We'll break the fourth wall."
    • I have never done drugs in my entire life...I've been drunk, like, twice in my life.
    • ...but I think the aging fanbase is exactly what turned out to be the target audience for Generations. It's all those people like me who grew up reading the Silver Age tuff and remembered it.
    • How would you characterize your experience working with Chris and Terry? (28)......That's some incredible energy, really—and even Tom's lettering with Chris's writing, it all came together (36) --FlairTale (talk) 03:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Looks good. Made a few minor edits. Passed the article just now. Aintabli (talk) 20:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Structure

  • The reference in the lead is unnecessary.
  • One source mentions he was a Canadian citizen, but I cannot find this info in the article.
  • I suggest the merging of the single sentence paragraphs with the rest, or they could be expanded. Aintabli (talk) 15:57, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that Byrne's nationality is referenced because back in 2005, Byrne had deleted content on the page several times and accused Wikipedia of spreading lies and libel about him. He seemed to particularly take issue with being called things like "Canadian-American" and "British-American", as he only classifies himself as American now. Even Jimbo Wales got involved to help address Byrne's concerns. With all that said, do you still think the reference should be removed? --FlairTale (talk) 03:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. I did not know that this article had such a peculiar history. Given it is a disputed matter by the subject himself, it may be better to leave the reference in the lead. After all, it wouldn't disqualify the article from being a GA. By the way, thank you for your recent edits to the article. Aintabli (talk) 03:21, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • These should be resolved now. --FlairTale (talk) 03:25, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 21:02, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(
  • Comment or view
  • Article history
)
  • ... that John Byrne retold the origin of Superman in the 1986 comic book limited series The Man of Steel? Source: Manning, Matthew K. (2010). "1980s". In Dolan, Hannah (ed.). DC Comics Year By Year A Visual Chronicle. London, United Kingdom: Dorling Kindersley. p. 221. ISBN 978-0-7566-6742-9. In the six-issue miniseries entitled [The] Man of Steel, the mammoth task of remaking Superman fell to popular writer/artist John Byrne...The result was an overwhelming success, popular with fans both old and new.
    • ALT1: ... that John Byrne was the writer and artist for the 1986 limited series The Man of Steel (1986), the first comic book to use of variant covers? Source: Cronin, Brian (April 24, 2008). "Comic Book Questions Answered: What Was the First Variant Cover?". Comic Book Resources. Archived from the original on October 1, 2016.
    • ALT2: ... that John Byrne was both the writer and artist for Fantastic Four comic books and his work on the title has been called a "second golden age"? Source: Plowright, Frank, ed. (1997). The Slings and Arrows Comic Guide. London, United Kingdom: Aurum Press. ISBN 1854104861.
    • ALT3: ... that John Byrne retold the origin of Superman in the 1986 comic book limited series The Man of Steel, 48 years after the character was created? Source: Manning, Matthew K. (2010). "1980s". In Dolan, Hannah (ed.). DC Comics Year By Year A Visual Chronicle. London, United Kingdom: Dorling Kindersley. p. 221. ISBN 978-0-7566-6742-9. In the six-issue miniseries entitled [The] Man of Steel, the mammoth task of remaking Superman fell to popular writer/artist John Byrne...The result was an overwhelming success, popular with fans both old and new.
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Captain America

Improved to Good Article status by FlairTale (talk). Self-nominated at 00:19, 24 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/John Byrne (comics); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: No - Approving all but ALT1. Source says they cannot definitively determine that The Man of Steel (1986) was the first comic book to make use of variant covers.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: ––FormalDude (talk) 05:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@FormalDude: Are there any preferences between the main hook and ALT3, in terms of which is more interesting or better written? FlairTale (talk) 06:42, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Slight preference to ALT3 for being potentially more interesting, I'd be fine with either though. ––FormalDude (talk) 03:13, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]


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