Talk:Jeff Robbin

Jeff Robbin was nominated as a Engineering and technology good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (November 9, 2022). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

Jeff Robbin was nominated as a Engineering and technology good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (March 1, 2023, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

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I doubt it even meets Wikipedia:B-class on #2. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 06:28, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, moved down to C (but might be start too). SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 12:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I'm aware, I've compiled every bit of coverage from WP:RS. How can this article fail for missing information that doesn't exist? To be clear, I'm not contesting the assessment, just confused. DFlhb (talk) 21:14, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Added some detail since the last review. Also, per WP:GACN point 3; I disagree with the previous fail; I checked again, and don't think there's any material from WP:RS that is missing from the article (which, by my perspective, would mean the "broad coverage" criterion is met). My research was quite thorough. If any material is found in WP:RS and missing in this article, I'll be glad to insert it.

Same with images; I looked deeply (before the 1st nomination) and found none to be freely-licensed. His only public appearance that I found was this iTunes U demo during an Apple keynote, but Apple has copyright to that. I will take a screenshot, and contact Apple's copyright team through their public form, to ask whether they'd graciously release the copyright for the screenshot, and I'll report back when I hear from them; but I don't think that's a prerequisite for a GA review. DFlhb (talk) 20:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgFo9STa70E DFlhb (talk) 18:56, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jeff Robbin/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: David Eppstein (talk · contribs) 07:39, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is barely a start-class article's worth of material about Robbin himself here (WP:GACR #3a), padded out by only-vaguely-relevant details about the Apple products he was associated with (GACR #3b). For instance, we are told where he was born, and his university degrees (dubiously sourced: the source says he took computer science courses while our article says he has a computer science degree, not the same thing (GACR #2bc). The infobox but not the main text has a rough birthdate, again dubiously sourced to an article about something else that ambiguously states him as being 28 either when he founded a company or when Apple later bought it up (GACR #2bc). We do not know what kind of economic circumstances he grew up in, where he grew up, and where or when he obtained either of his degrees. Most of the product sections have barely two sentences in which Robbins even is mentioned. We are told he "was chosen to lead the iTunes team" but not by whom, when, or how long this was after the acquisition of SoundJam. The chronology is out of order (the iTunes section significantly overlaps with the iPod section) and gappy (we get no information from 2012 to 2018 and nothing from then to present). Was going from head of iTunes to a team leader on iPod a demotion? We don't know. None of the sources appears to be directly about Robbin. Does he even pass WP:GNG? If any of these sources has enough in-depth coverage of Robbin to meet that criterion, it doesn't show in the amount of coverage of him that it is used for in this article. The only image in the article is not of him; it is plausibly public domain but instead implausibly claimed to be an own-work CC-licensed image (GACR #6a). I think this is so far from meeting GACR 3, in particular, as to be a quick-fail (WP:GAFAIL #1). Additionally, this was already the main complaint in Talk:Jeff Robbin/GA1, and I don't think it has been adequately addressed (GAFAIL #5). I see that efforts have been made to find material for more content, but did not find much. I think not every topic is capable of reaching GA levels of completeness. This may be one that is not, at least not with the sources currently available. Indeed, I think it is close to needing to be tagged with {{notability}} (GAFAIL #3). —David Eppstein (talk) 07:39, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the detailed review, and, given that both nominations were quick-failed, I flatly apologise for the time waste and for my complete misunderstanding of not every topic is capable of reaching GA levels of completeness.; my interpretation of that was looser, but mine was clearly out of step with commonly accepted practice here. I won't ever renominate this article, and will be far more careful with any future GANs.

Addressing specific criticisms:

• Undergraduate CS degree: fixed.
• Age: removed
• iTunes lead: Isaacson 2011 says after the acquisition, Robbin continued to lead the music software development team for the next decade; given that Isaacson was published roughly a decade after the acquisition, I don't want to read that as saying that he had stopped being the iTunes lead.
• iPod: it wasn't a demotion/promotion, rather his iTunes team was tasked with working on the iPod software, which iTunes would sync with.
• To be clear, even statements that don't mention Robbin's name (for example, Less than four months later, in January 2001, iTunes was released for free as part of Apple's digital hub strategy) are still supported by citations that mention Robbin by name. I've tried to avoid COATRACK, though I agree these are passing mentions.
• The image: I do apologise for mislabelling that; obviously, only the cropping was my own work, but the template was indeed applied incorrectly.

DFlhb (talk) 12:37, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At WWDC 1997, Jeff Robbin gave a presentation titled "Session 204: Mac OS Support in Rhapsody’s Blue Box"; there are transcripts and a video floating around online, and it states he was a "Technical Lead", so it seems he was involved in Rhapsody too, not just Copland. Can't find a secondary source, so I'm putting it here in case anyone's Google-fu is better than mine. DFlhb (talk) 09:53, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]