Talk:Golden Horde/Archive 1

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Archive 1

For your interest, Ordu means army in turkish. AltIn Ordu means golden army.

This article seems to harp a tad too much on the Horde's policies toward Ruthenia, especially considering that the article itself claims that Ruthenia was not a major consideration for the Golden Horde. I'd rewrite myself by I don't really know much about the subject. Isomorphic 01:57, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I propose that the link for steppe color-direction system be removed, since it does not appear to be relevent, or that clarifying text be added if the relevence is simply not obvious to non-specialists.

Rus' is medieval Russian state. All Russians named own country "Rus" until 17 centuries. Muscovy was named by Russians as Rus' too. Russia is the name of Russian State from the 18th century only. Modern Russian language and Russian culture is successors of the language and culture of medieval Rus'. The Tsar dynasty of Russia began in medieval Rus' (Rurik of Novgorod). The medieval epos of Rus' (bylinas of the Kiev cycle) was kept in northern territories of Russia. The most part of territory of medieval Rus' is territory of modern Russia. Novgorod, Vladimir, Ryazan, Suzdal, Tver were the big cities of medieval Rus' and cities of modern Russia also.Ben-Velvel 22:14, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Needs further processing into the text:

External attacks against neighbor countries

• 1259 : Second mongol attack against Poland, lead by Nogai Khan
• 1261-1266 : war against Ilkhanate
• 1287 : Third mongol attack against Poland
• 1357 : Attack against Persia; Tabriz taken
• 1384-1395: Tokhtamysh war against Timur --Ghirla | talk 09:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe Europe was saved form conquest by GranKhan'death which prompted batu to retreat eastwards

Frank Russian (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I believe that The Golden Horde invaded Europe, reaching Westward as far as Liegnitz, where they won Battle_of_Legnica, and being in some trouble at the Battle_of_Neustadt when the army turned back due to a death in Mongolia. If this is right, why is it not mentioned? Carrionluggage 07:11, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Read carefully. --Ghirla | talk 10:51, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - sorry I missed seeing that Neustadt was probably covered by Vienna. Carrionluggage 17:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Ghirlandajo,

1) The rule of Golden Horde was not the West-European system seigneurs - vassals. It included regular invasions, first of all with a target of a pillage. It is difficult to tell, whether it has been authorized by the Supreme khan, or Tatar warlords operated independently.

Only during second half of 13th century the Golden Horde carried out 14 ruinous and punitive expeditions to Russia, especially destructive in 1252 (campaign of Nevruy) and 1293 (campaign of Dyuden). Many cities (Suzdal, Rostov, Vladimir, Tver, Vladimir, Pereslavl, Ryazan, Murom) have been ruined many times.

Attacks proceeded in 14th century (excepting the period of rule of grand duke Ivan Kalita) and in 15 century.

These data can be found in the Full Collection of Russian Annals ("Полное собрание русских летописей (ПСРЛ), М.,1962 или М.,2001, ISBN 5-94457-011-3).

2)

The Genoeses merchants (Kafa, Azak, Soldaia, Tana) resold slaves and other goods seized by Tatars in Russia.

(http://www.lib.ru/HISTORY/ANDREEW_A_R/krym_history.txt)

I ask to include this information.

Ben-Velvel 09:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The map on this page indicates that the White Horde was located westerly of the Blue Horde. However, the map on this page (third map down from the top) indicates otherwise. More here. It is possible, I suppose, that the later White Horde of Tokhtamysh was located on different lands than the early White Horde of Orda. -- Additional references are needed to clarify. -- Takwish 15:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The five color-direction system (black — north, blue — east, red — south, white — west, yellow — center) is not only the "steppe color-direction system" - it is extremely old color-direction system of Hinduism and Taoism also. Gugugu 09:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

There appears to be a contradiction between the the five colors as listed above (blue - east, white west) and the first sentence of Mongol Origins (Blue Horde - West, White Horde - East). Maybe there is a logical explanation for this to those with more knowledge on the subject, but to the lay reader it's confusing.

The terminology in the Turkish and English sources is the same. The only difference is some Turkish sources uses "Gök"/"Kök" (eastern) not blue ("mavi" in Turkish) as in English sources. White (western) is the same "Ak" (white). In addition, I checked Encyclopedia Americana article which is written by Edward L. Keenan from Harvard University. There Blue is used for Eastern and White for Western Hordes. However, there was a difference between Russian chronicles and islamic souces (Arabian and Egyptian) (V.G. Tiesenhausen's work in 1884). This difference is explained in B.D. Grekov and A.Y.Yakubovski's state-of-art book "The Golden Horde and its Downfall". The major work were done by Russian scientists (A.Romaskevic and S.L. Volin 1941, B.D. Grekov and A.Y.Yakubovski 1950, G.Vernadsky 1953). On the other hand, the terminology used in wiki-article is not correct. The wiki-article terminology does not reflect the common usage. I'll do the changes. There is no difference. I'll also correct the related information for the Blue Horde (eastern) and White Horde (western) articles, too. Actually, maybe it's better to rename these articles as Eastern and Western Hordes, which totally removes the terminology disambiguity (actually there is no such difference between Turkish, Russian and English sources). Regards. E104421 15:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

In western terminology, the White Horde (Orda's ulus) is the eastern, the Blue Horde (Batu's ulus) is the western and the Sibir Horde (Shayban's ulus) is the northern. The Persian colour scheme is opposite to this hence the confusion.

Also, why is Berke mentioned as consolidating the blue and white hordes. I can find no sources supporting this and no mentions of any activities of his east of the Volga. I thought they were united when Toqtamish took power in the 1380's. Surely the white (Eastern) horde was a seperate entity until this time?

It looks like that we continually have problems with the ethnic roots of ancient states. Golden Horde is one of the controversial states. Now, it is written Turkic, but it wouldn't be my best choice at all. I would prefer Turco-Mongol, because at first, the Golden Horde was ruled by the Mongolians and the majority of the population was Turkish. (It is possible to say that almost all of the people in the state was Turkic). We all agreed at it was turkicized later, but it also carried Turkic elements in the beginning. We can discuss it here with references. But please lets not turn the article into a mass of references. Tajik, what I have done was just eliminating extra references. I can also find as many websites and book as I want to show that it is Turco-Mongol. Lets also decide on one (at most two) references at the end. Also, please try to stick to websites with edu extension (or gov if it is possible to find on this topic). And I have no access to Irannica so please avoid using it. Thanks. Caglarkoca 23:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that the confusion is really simply explained. The original Mongols were a Turkic people and Turkic speakers. It is believed that all of the Turkic people originally came from Asia minor and Mongolia and spoke one language. As years went by, each country started speaking its own version of the original Turkic language much like the slavic peoples. Even though Russian and Slovene are slavic languages, the separation of almost a thousand years without maintaining literary or grammatical rules changes a language sometimes to a point where members of the same race and same linguistic group don't understand each other any more. The same is true today of Mongonlian and someone who speaks the Crimean Tatar language.

Nodi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.44.248 (talk) 00:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

My friend, you are totally wrong. Around 6-4.000 Mongol households constituted the Horde at first. The Mongols can't speak Turkish, though they share many same words. For example, Ogedei Khagan denounced a Tajik that his father didn't know Turkish and he spoke only Mongolian according to Rashid-al Din's book. Muslim historians agree that the Mongol were just ruling class of the Horde and they absorbed into the large Turkic groups in Southern Russia as time went.--Enerelt (talk) 04:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

I have objection to usage of Turkish name for the Horde at the beginning of the article. Kipchas the main population of the Horde called them Altın Orda, orsomething else,. But Turkishis a language of Oghuz group, we need to use a language of Kypchak group there, such as Kazakh or Nogai, that stay the closest to Kypchak language. The Tatar language and the Crimean Tatar language are less close than the first two. --Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 14:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I fully agree with this one. The modern Turkish language belongs to the Oghuz branch and has absolutely nothing to do with the Golden Horde. It is as irrelevant to this article as is the German name for the Kushans in the respective article or the Persian name of the Scythians in that article. I guess it's again an attempt by Pan-Turkists to create an image of Turkic unity and to claim Mongol and Russian history for the Turkish Republic.

There is no relation  between Germans and Kushans. But Kypchaks are another branch of Turks like Germans and Austrians. Your comparison is very ridiculous  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.96.159.191 (talk) 20:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC) 

'Oghuz branch and has absolutely nothing to do with the Golden Horde'

you cant not say 'absolutely' oghuzs are turks so golden horde were, and its translation in oghuz turkic ; altın-altun ordu-orda so like all the freakin turkic branchs. ultimately all the turkic branch has something to do with golden horde for god's sake they are all turks..

its inappropiate to write turkish but it must be turkic not tatar or something else —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.253.7.214 (talk) 22:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but Siberia was already incorporated ...

As for the eastern border, in Idel-Ural region it was some to the west, at the Sura River. It's traditional conception (I'm not sure that was any differencies between Russian and Bulgar principalities for Sarai)--Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 14:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The only source I have is a tatar Encyclopaedia (once I I had uploaded there a map, but it was succesfully deleted). My version I'll place there: en:Image:Golden Horde 1389 Untifler.svg.--Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 14:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for that information. I have moved the border to the Sura River, per your suggestion. I appreciate the input. MapMaster 19:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ignoring the colour confusion, I'm just going to refer to Batu's Horde as Blue and Orda's as White. In the article it says: 'Batu then succeeded in establishing control over Orda's territorial endowment and subjugated the northern littoral of the Black Sea, incorporating the indigenous Turkic peoples into his army'.

Things along those lines seem to be popping up quite regularly on wikipedia and the internet in general, however, has anyone actually got any sound historical references or evidence of this ever happening. I ask because this site refers to Orda and many of his descendents as being 'Khan of the White Horde'. It also shows Batu and his descendents as being 'Khan of the Blue Horde'. Can anyone explain the discrepancies?

Also, out of interest, it mentions Shiban as being 'Khan North of the Caspian Sea' (My spanish is not perfect so if I've translated this wrong then say), Teval being 'Khan of the Siberia', and Toga Timur being 'Khan of the Bulgaria'. Can anyone explain?

Why does the article say that the majority of the population was Turkic, neglecting the Russians? According to the 1389 map, the Principality of Moscow made up a significant part of the Horde's territory. Other Russian lands belonged to the Horde earlier in its history, but had been lost to Lithuania by 1389. Furthermore, I can't imagine that the Russian lands had lower population density than the non-Russian lands. --Smack (talk) 05:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Russia was a vassal state of the Golden Horde, not a part of the Horde. One of its many vassal states. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexxzz123 (talk • contribs) 16:52, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

No matter what nationalists say Novgorod was a vassal of Mongols! History is history. You can not change it.--Enerelt (talk) 01:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

This has been discussed many times, but still seems to be a problem. The Turkish name of the Golden Horde is totally irrelevant in this (i.e. in the English Wikipedia's) article. The Golden Horde was a Mongol-ruled nomadic fiefdom, and the name "Golden Horde" is not even Mongol, it is derived from Russian. The driving force of the horde were Qypchaqs, a Turkic (NOT "Turkish"!) nomadic people who spoke a language of the Qypchaq group (Tatar language). The difference between Medieval Qipchaq (Tatar) and modern Turkish (which belongs to the Oghuz languages and was - more or less - artificially created via Ataturk's language reform in the early 20th century) is (at best) as close as between Medieval German and modern English - they are NOT mutually intelligible.

There is no reason why the Turkish (<-- related to Turkey) name of the Golden Horde should be mentioned along with the only 3 relevant languages: Qipchaq/Tatar (language of the driving force), Mongol (language of the ruling elite), and Russian (language of the majority of their subjects). Tājik (talk) 14:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

"and the name "Golden Horde" is not even Mongol, it is derived from Russian." Russians borrowed "Horde" (initially ORDA) from turkish so you are wrong. And the successor state to golden horde was a subject and ally to the ottomans so... Niyeti bozuk http nesnesi (talk) 11:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Can you please discuss/help, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mongol_Empire#Excellent_article_and_general_mongol_invasion_conquest_articles 97.118.116.250 (talk) 12:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

What does this mean: "It is about a warrior and his mother who missed each other and annoyed constant warfare."? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.69.199 (talk) 00:05, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

In the infobox as of now these names are in the infobox:
Алтан Орд
Altan Ord
Altın Urda
Golden Horde
The Ulus of Jochi
Зүчийн улс
In my mind this entire sequence looks rather random and messy, it seems to require a bit of cleanup. I am no expert on names of the Golden Horde, but I would suggest that a new consensus should be made as to which names and styles there should be. Additionally when there are so many names as this in an infobox it should also say directly which language each of the native names are written in. -GabaG (talk) 16:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Surely 'Khanate of the Golden Horde' should redirect here. I got a bit confused when it didn't come up, just a thought. 18:57, 26th of January 2010 (GMT) mspence835 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mspence835 (talk • contribs)

Nothing easier than that. --Latebird (talk) 19:35, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

In the last section of the article (Provinces), Khorazm, has been shown as a province of Golden Horde. Is the list of provinces sourced ? As far as I know, Khoraznm was in the realm of Chagatai Khan.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 17:49, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Khorazm (Khwarizm) was divided between the Chagataiyid and Jochid families. During the reign of Mongke, he assigned almost all of Khorazm to Batu in the early 1250s because they wanted to eliminate the Ogedeid and Chagatayid families' power. When the civil war broke out in 1260, the Chagatyid khan Alghu repulsed all Jochid retainers from Khorazm and took places including cities which never had been ruled by his ancestors. However, his late successor, Baraq, made peace with the Golden Horde and give some part of Khorazm to Mongke-Temur of the Golden Horde in 1269. I already cited my source (It is a Russian source). Uzbeg Khan's viceroy in Khorazm was Temur-Qutlugh. When you visit there, you could still see buildings he built.--Enerelt (talk) 01:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Discussion of terminology is in a mess. The Hordes of the Jochid Ulus article, apparently proposing to shed light on the question, is a train wreck. It will not do to simply translate "golden horde" into Tatar, Mongolian and modern Turkish(!). What you need to do is establish if, and when and where, these names are recorded. Apparently, the term appears in East Slavic (Russian) and in Persian sources. The "Tarikh-i Dost Sultan written by Ötemish Hajji in Khiva in the 1550s" is mentioned, but no verifiable reference is given. I assume this is a Persian work written in the 16th century. I have no idea whether the "golden" terminology, if found in 16th century Persian records, is derived from Slavic historiography, or from actual 13th century Turco-Mongol traditions. People will need to WP:CITE sources to clear this up.

If the Golden Horde is known as Алтан Орд in modern Mongolian (in Cyrillic orthography!), this is evidently just a translation from Russian. What you need to do is cite references that the Turkic or Mongolian term is attested before the 16th century, ideally before the 15th. Otherwise you're just translating a term into modern languages, and might as well cite the Portuguese, German or Bengali translation. If the original reference is indeed Persian اردوی زرین , just cite your source and be done. --dab (𒁳) 20:48, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I just added the alleged flag of the Golden Horde. It is not 100% certain that it is correct - however, it is on the english wiki, it was used on the Timurid article, and has some sources (see the file page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Golden_horde.svg) I'm tentatively putting it in place since it seems to be the best candidate - feel free to make any necessary corrections if you have research/information on this. Bigdan201 (talk) 00:27, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

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The Noga who claimed to be the descendants of the Golden horde, as-swell did Russian historian and scholars.

Here are pictures of the Nogai people of live in southern Russia and Northern Caucasus.

http://s14.postimage.org/au4kzmsfl/nogai7.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3479384709_58e741941b.jpg 94.175.118.39 (talk) 8:47, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ut77eAbMUHoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 15:57, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

http://books.google.com/books?id=6st6ZUFvfdYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 02:39, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Lithuania's modern borders are far from the Golden Horde territories, therefore, I believe that Lithuania should be deleted from the paragraph "Today" 78.84.247.178 (talk) 09:12, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Done Sam Sailor ^Sing 10:28, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Seriously? A few Jewish merchants mean we need to portray this society as this multicultural and multiconfessional? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.90.192 (talk) 21:38, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Here, it is claimed that "After seeking refuge in Lithuania, Sheikh Ahmed, last Khan of the Horde, died in prison in Kaunas some time after 1504.". However, while there is nop biographical article on en.wp, the article on ru.wp ru:Шейх-Ахмед says that he was released in 1527 and lived happily ever after until 1528. Unfortunately, neither refers to any sources. (The Russian version probably comes from Zaytsev's book "Шейх-Ахмад — последний хан Золотой Орды" (2003).) Still, there should be some attempt for concilement between two Wikipedias. --213.184.43.2 (talk) 13:54, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

[[ile:Ephrosinia of Suzdal.jpg|thumb|Golden Horde raid Suzdal.]]

One European flag has a Golden flag representing the Golden Horde. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.182.110.231 (talk) 20:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

[[ile:Ephrosinia of Suzdal.jpg|thumb|Golden Horde raid Suzdal.]]

One European flag has a Golden flag representing the Golden Horde. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.182.110.231 (talk) 20:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.182.26.4 (talk)

One European flag has a Golden flag representing the Golden Horde. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.182.110.231 (talk) 20:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.182.26.4 (talk)

Honestly, the article is unreadable, unstructured, incoherent. May I offer this paragraph - from the text - as an example:

"At first Uzbeg did not want to empower Moscow. In 1327, the Baskaki Shevkal, cousin of Uzbeg, arrived in Tver from the Horde, with a large retinue. They took up residence at Aleksander's palace. Rumors spread that Shevkal wanted to occupy the throne for himself and introduce Islam to the city. When, on 15 August 1327, the Mongols tried to take a horse from a deacon named Dyudko, he cried for help and a mob of furious people fell on the Tatars and killed them all. Shevkal and his remaining guards were burnt alive. Thus Uzbeg Khan began backing Moscow as the leading Russian state."

It makes no sense whatsoever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.231.189 (talk) 01:20, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

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105.237.152.250 (talk) 12:01, 28 August 2015 (UTC) kingmongolia.org Has this sight been considered for mention or is it not legit?

Not done: Seems like a promotional website, so its inclusion is not permitted per Wikipedia:Links to avoid. Altamel (talk) 17:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Berke was the Khan of the Golden Horde from 1256/7 until 1267. Can someone complete the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loewenmuth (talk • contribs) 12:05, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

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79.186.220.63 (talk) 17:07, 13 November 2015 (UTC) Poland or parts of Poland were never a part of golden horde what bs is article that

Not done: It was part of the Horde from what I can see: Third Mongol invasion of Poland Stickee (talk) 01:03, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

White Horde

According to my spouse, who has studied this area extensively, it is the White Horde that invaded Rus. The Golden Horde was responsible for protecting the Khan and did not go to the Rus.

173.24.159.34 (talk) 05:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

The use of unreliably sourced 'flags' for a myriad of defunct states has been the bane of Wikipedia for years. Not one of the 'flags' being used to represent a state tallies with the definition of a 'flag'. Various emblems attested to in passing as being associated with one leader or another, a fleeting moment in the history of the state in question, etc. is the equivalent of anything that would begin to resemble the modern day concept of a 'flag'. Unless genuinely reliable sources can be found to back up the use of any images which were purportedly used as flags, we are in breach of {{WP:NOR]]. Suggested reading: WP:NOT. As editors/contributors we are merely here to present mainstream knowledge, not string together a plethora of information individuals believe to be WP:ITSUSEFUL, creating our own mythology as to what is and is not WP:THETRUTH. Anything that doesn't meet with WP:V needs to be kept out of infoboxes. If it's WP:DUE, the information can be included in the body of the article, however there's seldom a situation where WP:WEIGHT would call for it.

Unless any contributors can come up with RS attesting to any of these 'flags' can be understood to be 'flags', I will be removing them. Remember that the WP:BURDEN is on the contributor adding content to prove its veracity. Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:16, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

I've wondered about the validity of some of these flags: are they merely reconstructions?--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 10:26, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

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@Hunan201p:, @Jingiby: WP:SCIRS is an essay, not one of Wikipedia's policies. Link to the archived discussion: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_273#Using_of_primary_genetics_sources_at_Uyghur_(and_many_other_Eurasian_pages). -- Tobby72 (talk) 13:49, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

WP:SCIRS is an essay that states community consensus; please stop going around repeating this misleading statement that you learned from Josh. The discussion you linked to has nothing to do with the statement at WP:SCIRS, which was backed by strong consensus at RfC. The statement about genetics at WP:SCIRS is policy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard&oldid=862831707#RfC:Genetics_references - Hunan201p (talk) 02:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

""The Horde" is a 2012 historical film directed by Andrei Proshkin and written by Yury Arabov. The film is a narrative of how Saint Alexius healed Taidula Khatun, the mother of the Golden Horde khan Jani Beg from blindness." (Youtube)Kdammers (talk) 17:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

• The film turkophobic glossy deceit164.0.101.199 (talk) 15:40, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Titus

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Tulunbay (under the section on Öz-beg) did not die shortly after going to Egypt. So change "She died soon after." to "Al-Nasir Muhammad, however, came to believe that Tulunbay was not truly a Chingissid princess but an impostor. Eventually, in 1327/1328 he divorced her, and she then married one of al-Nasir Muhammad's commanders. When Öz Beg eventually learned of the divorce in 1334/1335, he sent an angry missive. In order to placate him, al-Nasir Muhammad claimed that she had died and even showed his ambassadors a fake legal document. Tulunbay, however was very much alive, and only died in 1340."

On this topic, see for instance Anne Broadbridge, Kingship and Ideology in the Islamic and Mongol Worlds, Cambridge University Press, 2008, pp. 132-137. (References to primary source material can be found there as well.) Tulunbay (talk) 23:19, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

•  Done GPinkerton (talk) 09:14, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Country name "Golden Horde" is translation of Russian words "Zolotaya Orda". But how this name came to Russian language? Certainly, it was not translation from language of any nomads. Usually, phonetical adaptation of nomads' own name were used. Historycally, Western Mongols call themself "Ulan Zalata Ördä". And "Zalata Ördä" sounds, practically, the same as "Zolota(ya) Orda".

Another supporting argument is that Eastern civilization and nomads, particularly, used silver as measure of wealth but not gold. For instance, words "money" and "silver" are the same in the language of Western Mongols. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.187.5.142 (talk) 13:49, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Only Tatar name? What about Central Asian languages? 85.26.165.138 (talk) 23:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)