Talk:French immersion in Canada

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Linguistics: Applied Linguistics Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Linguistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of linguistics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LinguisticsWikipedia:WikiProject LinguisticsTemplate:WikiProject LinguisticsLinguistics articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by Applied Linguistics Task Force. Education Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of education and education-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EducationWikipedia:WikiProject EducationTemplate:WikiProject Educationeducation articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. France Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

• I think the reference to FI being most popular in the Maritimes and Quebec is a bit misleading. It's technically correct, given the stats, but I don't think provincial stats give the full picture. For example, FI is very popular in parts of Ontario, but much less so in other areas, contributing to a relatively low provincial average. I recall figures from the mid-1990s stating that in suburban Ottawa, FI had effectively become the "regular" program, as enrollment was higher than in the traditional stream. But the situation in Peel Region, for example, would be quite different. Similarly, FI probably has much higher enrollment in West Island Montreal than the Saguenay. Given that some of the regions I've referred to have higher populations than some actual provinces, I've taken the liberty to amend the reference in the article. Skeezix1000 21:00, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In Ottawa (pop. 860,000 approx.), in the English-language schools, French Immersion is indeed the regular or majority program for anglophone children. In Ottawa, the province-wide test scores for the FI students shows higher marks than for those students in the minority "English" program. (I would have to check the stats on this.) By the time the students have reached senior public school (grades 7 and 8), they can communicate well in French with a remarkably good accent, while their English reading and writing proficiency is good too. The FI program is a huge success, and students graduating with their "bilingual certificate" have many more employment options open to them, in the federal public service and elsewhere. The clever students seek out employment and travel experiences that provide opportunities to build-on their French-language training. Que-Can 17:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have never heard the "elitist" argument against FI. It must be a very obscure argument. I don't know why it should receive the dignity of being published here. FI is completely free of charge, and it relies on no private tutoring after class. Having more money actually gives you no advantage whatsoever. I'm a product of the system and my friends in the FI program were from all walks of life. I remember at birthday parties how some couldn't afford presents for their friends. FI is there because French is one of our two Canadian official languages, and we need some people who are trained from youth in the other language for our country to function smoothly. I think in Switzerland they have found they need a similar set-up: where kids learn the other official languages from a young age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kozushi (talk • contribs) 23:30, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See the recent update edit in the Challenges section. There is definitely an elitist attitude in Canada re: those in the FI programmes.

   A report, by a PhD candidate scholar in educational policy at the University of Toronto, also discussed concerns about French immersion creating a dual track academic stream in many schools. She referred to a system "where the smart, motivated kids are funnelled into French, and everyone else gets left behind in English" which can become viewed as the "de facto low track stream". The author discussed a study at a Vancouver school, published in the British Journal of Sociology of Education, which concluded that "French immersion programmes operate as a 'cream-skimming' phenomenon … [that] allows white, middle class parents to access markers of higher social status and prestige." https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/11/09/breaking-the-spell-of-french-immersion.html

Peter K Burian (talk) 22:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also see Just say 'non': The problem with French immersion - Macleans.ca http://www.macleans.ca/education/just-say-non-the-problem-with-french-immersion/ Mar 22, 2015 - French immersion—meant to inspire national unity—has turned into an elitist, divisive and deeply troubled system. ... have suggested it become a dual-track French immersion school—hosting both French immersion and ...

AND There's just one problem with French immersion ... well, several ... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the...of-french-immersion/article30259804/ Jun 4, 2016 - For many parents, French immersion is a way to game the system. ... In dual-track schools, they now have a much bigger ratio of disadvantaged ... ... For many parents, French immersion is a way to game the system. It filters out the kids with behavioural problems and special needs, along with the low achievers. In short, it's a form of streaming. Most French-immersion students are from affluent, high-achieving families that work hard to give their children an edge.

AND Dual-Track vs. Single-Track French Immersion Programs https://bc-yk.cpf.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/Dual-Track-vs-Single-Track.pdf the differences between dual-track French Immersion schools and single-track. French Immersion ... and hallways. • Perception that immersion is an elitist program .... Drawbacks of the dual-track system included often unilingual administrators ...

btw, my degree is in French Literature, with a minor in English Literature, so I am certainly not anti-French; quite the contrary. And yes, I am Canadian. See my User page. Peter K Burian (talk) 22:07, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The "controversy" section is so poorly written and expressed, as well as unsourced, that I've moved it to the talk page until it can be straightened out:

Controversy has risen in parents of Canada for the reason that their child cannot get a job/career in Ontario. Though this is incorrect, there are jobs that require french and english. This brought up problems for the anglophones and francophones as they have to learn another language. People thought learning a new language would be an asset, while others have considered it a priorty.

This seems to be expressing (somewhat awkwardly) the sentiment, which does exist, that the original plan of offering French language proficiency as an added asset to a generation of Ontario anglophones has now led to a situation where fluent bilingualism has become a prerequisite for any sort of job in the provincial or federal public service.

If adequately sourced, which should not be difficult, this is an important addition to the article. --Saforrest 04:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NOT all jobs in government in Canada require French; mostly those which include direct contact with the public. Many jobs are in the back room. Several of my friends work in such jobs and do not speak French.

btw, my degree is in French Literature, with a minor in English Literature, so I am certainly not anti-French; quite the contrary. Peter K Burian (talk) 22:10, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just a thought: perhaps someone would like to translate this article into French for the French wikipedia? :) --Saforrest 04:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's one there now: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_%28linguistique%29, and it's much better than this one, as it's not limited to children. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.3.179.31 (talk) 06:22, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Milton, Massachusetts offers a French Immersion program in the four public elementary schools. The following is from the Milton Public Schools' website:

"A French Immersion Program began in the Milton Public School System at the Mary A. Cunningham Elementary School in 1987 with two classes in grade one. Each year, a new grade with two or three classes was added at the Cunningham School. In 1991, a first grade class began at the Glover Elementary School. In 1992, a first grade class was added to both the Tucker and the Collicot. Since 1992, all four elementary schools have added at least one class per grade level each year and the program has expanded into the middle school and the high school. " --Marymgm 13:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This page is threatening to turn into a laundry-list of specific schools that offer this. Let's try to avoid that. This isn't the Yellow Pages. 24.11.127.26 (talk) 20:16, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

>Yes, but isn't that one of the points of this article? I know that's why I came to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.45.162.33 (talk) 09:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Université de Moncton does not provide "French Immersion" at a post-secondary level, as the page would seem to indicate. It is a bona fide 100% francophone university like the University of Montreal, the only courses offered in English are studies in English Literature/English language.

They do offer to take anglophone students and that becomes, of sort, an immersion but it's certainly not what is understood by "immersion program". The anglophone students who wish to take a degree in Moncton must take a minor in French as a second language.

There are language assessment tests/courses when one enrolls both in French and English, the number of classes to be taken in either language depends on how one scores on the tests regardless of one's degree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.148.171.2 (talk) 18:44, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The post secondary section is confusing - the francophone institutions aren't listed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.59.95 (talk) 16:53, 12 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed this comment

  The examples and perspective in this article deal primarily with Canada and do not represent a worldwide view of the subject. You may improve this article, discuss the issue on the talk page, or create a new article, as appropriate.

No wonder it's mostly about Canada which is a billingual countryof over 30 million people and has numerous French Immersion programs across the country. What other country has any similar quantity?

Because it's such a big deal in Canada, there is a great deal of research, and publicity, about FI in Canada. Try to find much detail with a Google or Google Books search from other countries and see how much success you have. (And some of those will quote Canadian studies). Peter K Burian (talk) 23:14, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on French immersion. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150204073639/http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=144196bf-8a12-47e8-8109-b7be65a7bb9b to http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=144196bf-8a12-47e8-8109-b7be65a7bb9b
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050530080949/http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/81-004-XIE/200406/imm.htm to http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/81-004-XIE/200406/imm.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:26, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]