Talk:Ernest Berry Webber

A fact from Ernest Berry Webber appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 May 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Hammersmith Town Hall in London, designed by Ernest Berry Webber, was called an "unfortunate building" by architectural historian Nikolaus Pevsner?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ernest Berry Webber.

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Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester

Given the state to which the gardens have descended, it is something of a municipal tragedy that his museum wasn’t built! KJP1 (talk) 16:54, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@KJP1: Have they really? How sad! This was Webber's vision of it, which looks quite Lutyens-esque in terms of its layout, combined greenery and memorials (EBW did intend for it to be a WW1 memorial, after all). Poor Ernest, he had an unfortunate habit of winning competitions, but never actually rewarded with the building of them. His offering in the former Southern Rhodesia looks wonderful, but I can find no trace of it ever being built. Which is a shame. Although Mugabe would only have pulled it down anyway. Cassianto^Talk 17:59, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cassianto - The gardens are now notorious for drug-dealing and violence and I encounter many of its denizens! It’s got so bad, the police have considered closing them permanently in the current situation. They really are a sad but valuable lesson in how poor architecture/bad urban planning/municipal mismanagement can make a difficult environment truly awful. KJP1 (talk) 18:16, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help on this, as always. Re Dagenham Civic Centre and it being the "best building by far"; not a difficult competition to win, in my experience. Looking at the fire station on Google Street View, it appears very modern (I only count 4 bays and not 5) and I suspect, sadly, that EBW's effort was reduced to rubble a few years ago. Cassianto^Talk 07:36, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes - I found a Google article that was headed "Barking and Dagenham fire service move into new home" so I fear you're probably right. And I think Pevsner was with you on the, generally rather low, quality of Dagenham's buildings! KJP1 (talk) 07:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the fire station was rebuilt in 2014; assuming this is the rebuild there doesn't seem to be anything left of the original. To be honest it looks like it was an absolutely generic urban fire station rather than anything distinctive. As with virtually everything in LBBD, from restaurants to tube stations to pubs to supermarkets, the "Barking good, Dagenham bad" rule applies to buildings as well. Valence House (for Dagenham) and Fulham Palace (for Hammersmith) may well have some books on Webber; local history museum gift shops tend to be a treasure-trove of dusty books on local civic figures, often so long out of print that Amazon hasn't picked them up. ‑ Iridescent 08:42, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think this, [1], shows us old and new. I prefer Webber's. KJP1 (talk) 08:59, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cassianto - On an unrelated point, William Curtis Green. Belatedly got round to checking out what Pevsner has to say on The Wolseley. While he likes it, he prefers Curtis Green's National Westminster Bank, Nos. 63-65 on the other side. Does it [2] need a bit more in his article? You mention it in the third para. of Early years. KJP1 (talk) 07:57, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've singled out the NatWest building, just underneath the Wolseley mention, and I've given it the basis for a supporting quote, if you would be so kind. We had the Wolseley booked until things went mad and everything shut down. Cassianto^Talk 08:35, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Will do, something a bit awry there but think it's sorted now. KJP1 (talk) 08:36, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Now - what I can't get my head round is how to put the book cite into the Note. - Given your habit of using Riley's crappy old referencing style rather than the shiny {{sfn}}. Shall keep trying. Another aside - Liz Walder is given as a book source, but I'm missing her in the references? KJP1 (talk) 08:49, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Now fixed. Cassianto^Talk 09:06, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looking really good!

Well, this is looking fantastic; what a progress from Stub in a matter of days. Many congrats. KJP1 (talk) 15:30, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, and I owe you a glass (or several) of Pinot noir on the next jaunt to the Wehwalt arms for all your Pevsner bothering. Much appreciated. It's good to have seen it go from this to this. And thanks to Edwardx for starting it. Cassianto^Talk 16:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Outstanding effort. Starting this sort of article is easy, getting it to this sort of standard involves hard work. Edwardx (talk) 10:22, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:02, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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Southampton Civic Centre

~~... that after Ernest Berry Webber won the competition to build the Civic Centre and Guildhall in Southampton (pictured), he had to move there to oversee the construction for ten years?~~ Source: [3]

Reviewed: Umm al-Amad, Lebanon

5x expanded by Cassianto (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 19:49, 8 April 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Article is new enough, from 357 characters a week ago to 5904 now, making it also long enough. Definitely no policy concerns. Hook short enough, meets the formatting guidelines, and is broadly interesting. QPQ was done. Image is free and used in the article. The sourcing on the hook is a little bit sideways; it's definitely true that construction of the building took 10 years, and that he had to move there to oversee it, but nothing I can find clearly confirms that he lived there for the full 10 years, so if stronger sourcing can't be found it might be best to have a hook that doesn't imply that. However I'm approving this hook in good faith. This is my third DYK review, so per the intro of the reviewing guide, I invite a second opinion for my review. - Astrophobe (talk) 04:31, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I came by to promote this, but there is no inline cite for the fact that he moved there, and frankly, I don't understand the point that he "had to" move there. Is this supposed to be funny or something? You have a long enough article; please suggest another hook. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 19:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cassianto has a long enough article, and Eeng and SchroCat had potentially better hooks, please see User talk:Cassianto/Archive 1#Ernest Berry Webber. Would you like one of those? My ("bloody dull") take:

ALT1: ~~... that in 1929, Ernest Berry Webber won the competition to build the Civic Centre and Guildhall in Southampton (pictured), which was completed ten years later?~~ --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:01, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is what supposed to be funny? If you're not laughing, then I would suggest that it's not supposed to be funny, what do you reckon? It's not my hook and I don't know where it came from. I don't much care for DYK; it maybe Gerda Arendt who you're after. Cassianto^Talk 20:03, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I pinged both of you. Yoninah (talk) 20:09, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, what? Yes you found it funny? Yes, it was Gerda you were after? I know you pinged both of us. Why don't we switch to SchroCat's preferred version? Cassianto^Talk 20:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Gerda, let's not be dull. How about:

Peterborough Town Hall

ALT2: ~~... that the British architect Ernest Berry Webber is best known for designing the Peterborough Town Hall (pictured), the Guildhall Civic Centre in Southampton, and the Dagenham Civic Centre?~~
ALT3: ~~... that the British architect Ernest Berry Webber gained early attention by winning a competition to design a Manchester art gallery and museum, though the project was ultimately cancelled?~~ Yoninah (talk) 20:24, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please list other ideas on this template. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 20:25, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even read the discussion? I tried to help, and Cassianto pointed out the building pictured above as his best. I found it a monster, and ten years a long time. Perhaps it was a mistake that I tried to help. - "British"? Really? A list of three? A cancelled project as the only thing mentioned. Perhaps it was a mistake that I tried to help. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The only mistake, Gerda, was me ever thinking that DYK was a good idea. I for one very much appreciate your help here. Cassianto^Talk 16:28, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps I can at least help to the above-mentioned preferred version:

ALT4: ... that Hammersmith Town Hall, London, designed by Ernest Berry Webber, was called "an unfortunate building" by the architectural historian Nikolaus Pevsner?" - SchroCat (talk) 18:38, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

copied --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:34, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, it sure sounds like Attack Yoninah Day.

To quote you: "Is this supposed to be funny or something?" I would wager "something", because it's certainly not funny accusing others of attacking you, when they're very clearly not. Cassianto^Talk

ALT4 is fine. Offline hook ref AGF and cited inline. Rest of review per Astrophobe. ALT4 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 20:41, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]