Talk:Delhi

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This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

	Delhi is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 3, 2008.
Article milestones Date Process Result August 16, 2006 Good article nominee Listed January 4, 2007 Peer review Reviewed January 20, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted February 17, 2007 Featured article candidate Promoted May 26, 2010 Featured article review Demoted July 18, 2012 Good article nominee Listed January 22, 2023 Good article reassessment Delisted Current status: Former featured article

Delhi

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Repeating indefinite articles

It’s redundant to repeat indefinite articles unless distinctness of their nouns is ambiguous. I don’t think any reader would misread that “city and union territory” is a one entity (different from both ‘cities’ and ‘union territories’), it's obvious we’re talking about two distinct things (‘city’ and ‘union territory’). I’m reinstating my edit on this issue.

“Straddling” and the “right bank”

“Straddling”

The current phrasing

Lying on both sides of the Yamuna river, but chiefly to the west, or beyond its right bank, Delhi …

is the worst out of all the variations.

Straddle does mean to be on either side of—but all definitions of it include some sort of ‘imbalance’ or ‘irregularity’ in that positioning (on either side), so as to speak. I believe the meaning of straddle used here is in the sense of an ‘irregular sprawl’ (MWO, “Straddle”, V. (1): intransitive verb #2). “Chiefly straddle” is a fine construct—it means the sprawl is much larger to the west of the river, which it is; ‘straddling the Yamuna, chiefly its western bank …’ is an identical construct in meaning, I don’t understand why Fowler wouldn’t have issue with the usage of chiefly in one but not the other.

I removed that bracketed clause and replaced it with “chiefly on the west bank” because I felt the former was unnecessary. It wasn’t incorrect, but the prose felt tighter without it.

But the current wording of that sentence is much worse. It’s not wrong to say ‘lying between’, but it’s needlessly wordy. Straddle was a great word to describe that the river flows through the city, there’s no reason to make it more verbose the way that Fowler has; I think they’re mistaken about the meaning of straddle somewhere if they think “chiefly straddle” is an incorrect usage of that word here.

Right bank

And I disagree that “right bank” needs to be mentioned in the lede at all. I can think of two reasons:

1. The Yamuna isn’t navigable at Delhi to begin with, how often are the right or left banks of the river mentioned for directions by Delhiites?
2. The “or” there in “western or right bank” throws me off, the fact that it’s an inclusive-or isn’t intuitive. Maybe ‘western and right bank’ is preferrable? Personally I would like to cut “right bank” from there entirely.

I’m sure there’s a place down in the article somewhere to mention that most of Delhi lies on the right bank of the Yamuna, but I fail to see why it needs to clutter the second sentence of the lede.

 —I'llbeyourbeach (talk) 13:59, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I did not see this. You are looking at one of the secondary meanings of the intransitive verb straddle; we, however, are using the word transitively. Straddle is not used transitively in the meaning of sprawl. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:30, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PS Oxford English Dictionary (subscription required): 1.d. 1565– intransitive. transferred of a thing, esp. of a thing having legs; also, to divaricate, sprawl. Also with complement and figurative.

Example:

1875

"Lubber prose o'ersprawls, And straddling stops the path from left to right." R. Browning, Inn Album i. 1 Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:37, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The right bank has little to do with navigation. Most rivers don't flow (in all scales) in a direction with respect to which "west" is clearly defined. Indeed the Jumna river has twists and turns in its course, one in Delhi's northeast, and several just beyond its southeast.

Also, although the word "bank" has come to imply relatively large areas, e.g. West Bank or the Left Bank of Sartre and Camus, it does not extend beyond the flood plain of a river, i.e. beyond the visible valley. So we can't say: Delhi lies on the west bank of the Jumna. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:57, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Or for that matter, "Delhi lies on the right bank of the Jumna." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:00, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See my map: File:HeadwatersGanges1.jpg. The headwaters are hardly navigable. See also the larger-scale maps: File:The Indus river in the Kashmir region.jpg or File:DoabUnitedProvincesIGI1908.jpg Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:09, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Finally, "a city and a union territory." When the coordinate nouns X, Y, in X and Y act as one unit an article (whether indefinite (a/an) or definite (the)) does not need to be repeated. Example, "the horse and jockey surged ahead in the closing minutes." But "the horse and the jockey were thrown in different directions by the unexpected interruption," unless you are aiming for poetic or literary effect.

A union territory is a different entity than a city; it is more like a state, e.g. Jammu and Kashmir (union territory). You wouldn't say, "Delhi is a city and state in India." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:31, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also American English tends to drop articles (i.e. use the 0-article) more than Commonwealth English. E.g. Artist John X was commissioned by the city. (AmE) The/An artist John X was commissioned by the city. (ComE). I'm assuming that Delhi follows the rules of Indian English, which in its standard variety is no different from standard Commonwealth or standard British English. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:41, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am writing to request that the Municipal Corporation of Delhi’s logo be added to the Delhi Wikipedia page in the logo section. As you may know, many cities without a flag or logo use their municipal logo as a symbol of their identity. Examples include Lucknow, Ankara, and New Delhi, etc. The Municipal Corporation of Delhi is the governing body of most of Delhi, providing civic services to a population of about 20 million citizens in the capital city 1. It is one of the largest municipal bodies in the world, with an annual budget of over ₹16,000 crore (~US$1.95 billion) 1. The corporation covers an area of 1,397.3 km² (539.5 mi²). Adding the Municipal Corporation of Delhi’s logo to the Delhi Wikipedia page would help to provide a more complete picture of the city’s identity and governance. I believe that this would be a valuable addition to the page and would help to make it more informative and engaging for readers. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Tamjeed Ahmed (talk) 06:39, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fowler&fowler and Tamjeed Ahmed: MOS:INFOBOXFLAG applies in this? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:46, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, MOS:INFOBOXFLAG does apply to logos. Unless there is something particularly identifying about the logo, it is better not to include it. RegentsPark (comment) 12:26, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But most Indian cities do have a logo. I think Delhi should have one too. Tamjeed Ahmed (talk) 14:22, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Let's add both the state government emblem and the municipal logo as well? Tamjeed Ahmed (talk) 17:41, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What do they add to the article? --RegentsPark (comment) 19:07, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So, by this logic we should remove the logos and emblems of all Indian states and cities. Right? Tamjeed Ahmed (talk) 15:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

??? Tamjeed Ahmed (talk) 11:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I've been an infrequent visitor here lately. I agree with @RegentsPark: entirely. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did not mean to use the 'rollback' tool but the changes need a consensus. TrangaBellam (talk) 07:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]