Talk:Attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election

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Section sizes Section size for Attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election (80 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 34,324 34,324 Background 132 21,918 Trump's 2012 accusations of electoral fraud 1,040 1,040 Uncertainty over Trump accepting an electoral loss in 2016 6,122 6,122 Uncertainty over Trump accepting an electoral loss in 2020 14,624 14,624 Refusal to accept 2020 electoral loss 19,659 63,422 Stop the Steal 31,517 31,517 Conspiracy theories 12,246 12,246 November 2020 5,196 84,798 "Fake" electors 5,855 5,855 Lame duck firings and hirings 15,628 15,628 Lawsuits 5,943 5,943 Michigan officials pressured to not certify 8,649 8,649 Attempt to seize voting machines in Michigan 1,672 1,672 Georgia Secretary of State pressured to disqualify ballots 3,976 3,976 Wisconsin recount-obstruction 3,237 3,237 Partisan hearings with Republican legislatures 2,732 2,732 Conspiracy allegations 23,135 23,135 Threats of violence by Trump supporters 8,775 8,775 December 2020 6,321 72,588 Trump's attempt to pressure state officials 10,138 10,138 Supreme Court petitions 7,489 7,489 Consideration of special counsel and martial law 14,470 14,470 Planning for Congress to overturn the election on January 6 2,422 2,422 Pressure on Pence 1,224 14,923 "Pence Card" conspiracy 9,251 9,251 December timeline 4,448 4,448 Pressure on Justice Department 6,544 6,544 Pressure on Defense Department 3,830 3,830 Plan to seize voting machines 3,618 3,618 Ellis memos 1,717 1,717 Plan to obtain National Security Agency data 1,116 1,116 January 2021 7,531 73,937 Gohmert v. Pence 4,965 4,965 Calls with state officials 15,731 15,731 Justice Department pressured and efforts made to replace acting attorney general 7,174 7,174 Preparations by chief of staff 4,143 4,143 More pressure on Pence 8,139 8,139 January 6 joint session 90 10,827 Senate efforts 8,644 8,644 House votes 1,063 1,063 Report by Rep. Zoe Lofgren 1,030 1,030 Capitol attack 11,213 11,213 Trump operatives breach Coffee County, Georgia election system 1,930 1,930 Lindell memo 2,284 2,284 Later developments 26 63,384 Taxpayer costs 741 741 Security concerns over March 4, 2021 1,576 1,576 Election audits 2,647 34,216 Arizona 8,298 8,298 Georgia 4,104 4,104 Idaho 2,080 2,080 Pennsylvania 6,329 6,329 Texas 3,140 3,140 Wisconsin 7,618 7,618 Mike Lindell reinstatement prediction 1,526 1,526 Senate Judiciary Committee report 750 750 Election law reform efforts 1,699 1,699 Post-election voter restriction efforts by Republicans 182 182 Impact on secretaries of state 981 981 House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack 4,241 4,241 2021 German federal election 1,623 1,623 Justice Department investigations 1,460 1,460 Civil lawsuits 551 551 Continuing subversion efforts and 2024 predictions 10,597 10,597 Post-election allegations of statistical improbabilities 3,215 3,215 Reactions 16 51,381 Republican critiques of the "big lie" 853 21,495 Administration dissenters 1,829 1,829 Consistent critics 5,060 5,060 Others 13,753 13,753 Description as attempted coup 39 19,845 Before the Capitol attack 14,320 14,320 During or after the Capitol attack 5,486 5,486 "Trump won" and "big lie" 6,092 6,092 Corporate reactions 3,933 3,933 See also 129 129 Notes 26 26 References 30 30 External links 3,600 3,600 Total 469,537 469,537

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: Eggers, Andrew C.; Garro, Haritz; Grimmer, Justin (2021-11-09). "No evidence for systematic voter fraud: A guide to statistical claims about the 2020 election". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. Retrieved 2021-11-16. House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack's Presentation Outline

I don't think we have sufficiently weighty RSs to add this to the article, but its in the media and I wanted to note them for followup later. Politico had this scoop,^[1] which has spawned (of course) a cascade of other media stories based on the original Politco piece. Apparently a secret service agent, Trumps lead guy, gave closed (not public testimony). The committee hasn't disclosed it. So what we have here is he said..... he heard it from a friend.....that the other person told a bunch of people..... stuff (Politico heard it from a source that the agent testified to the panel.) This is why I don't think the report has enough WEIGHT to be added to the article. But it sure is interesting. Even as the violence was happening, Trump was tryhing to talk his detail into taking him down to the capitol. Instead they took him to the White House. At least, if the report is accurate.

Imagine if Secret Service had really taken Pence to Andrews and Trump got to the capitol.....

Anyway, the other part of this story that we might be able to use if the committee discloses the agent's testimony is commentary from Professor Ruth Ben-Ghiat, who studies fascism and coups, and opined that "“If you’re having a coup and summoned everybody, and aim to be anointed as the head of a new illegitimate government, you have to be there,” I'm sure there's a weightier RS than HuffPost but for now, ^[2]

Latest count is 20,800, guidelines say to almost always get under 15,000 - is that our target? Superb Owl (talk) 03:34, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After finally reading the entire article from start to finish, there are quite a few times when the article summarizes what's already been written in an earlier section because it reintroduces a topic from November in December and again in January or other sections that comes with re-explanations of a topic.

I sketched a new possible outline for the article here that could save us ~1-2000 words and maybe make the article easier to skim. Superb Owl (talk) 16:04, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Superb Owl, your draft outline is heading in the right direction. (Also see the Select Committee's presentation outline, because their goal was to convey a larger picture than just the minutia in a timeline.) Ultimately, this annotated timeline won't be the only article about the entire conspiracy, from suppressing votes to subverting the election result.

The public knowledge that's currently available is too limited about event details, the connection between events and what happened behind-the-scene. We'll need to learn more from Federal prosecution of Donald Trump (election obstruction case) and Georgia election racketeering prosecution. When those investigations reveal the strategies that insiders coordinated, then the revealed strategies will help in creating the structure of a Wikipedia:Navigation template.

In the meantime, this article can be cleaned to temporarily serve as an annotated timeline for readers to reference during the upcoming trials. Related articles can be started to present some background and explain causes. As previously suggested, this article should spin-off some topics (e.g. Stop the Steal, election audits). rootsmusic (talk) 18:22, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]