Talk:Albert Luthuli/GA1

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 14:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm copyediting as I read through; please revert anything you disagree with.

  • "Luthuli's lineage is often traced back to his paternal grandparents Ntaba ka Madunjini and Titsi Mthethwa, who were ...": any reason not to make this just "Luthuli's paternal grandparents, Ntaba ka Madunjini and Titsi Mthethwa, were ..."?
 Done.
  • "Martin founded the Natal Native Congress in 1901, and in 1912 he took part in the founding of the South African Native National Congress": our article on the ANC makes no mention of his involvement in its founding. Was he an important early member, or perhaps just an early member?
 Done. I realized the Vinson book erroneously mentions that Martin Luthuli founded the ANC. What he probably meant was he founded the Natal Native Congress, which later became the Natal branch of the ANC. I have also linked a new article to support this: http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?pid=S1017-04992009000100005&script=sci_arttext&tlng=es
  • "Luthuli was then able to go to the Ohlange Institute after he had passed Standard 4 at the ABM mission school in 1914." What is "Standard 4"? Is there a suitable link?
 Done. There are no indications as to what Standard 4 is. I removed it to avoid confusion.
  • "brought a shortage of food to the African population. This shortage reached the Ohlange Institute and there was a frequent scarcity of food": this essentially says the same thing three times in a row; can it be trimmed?
 Done
  • The second paragraph of "Teaching" has "Adams College" six times in six sentences. Can we rephrase to avoid some of the repetition?
 Done
  • In a few places I'm seeing a bit of wordiness -- this is not something that's a problem at GA, where clarity and grammatical correctness is the bar to be exceeded, but just an FYI. For example, in addition to the two points above, the next section has "He served under the presidency of his friend and colleague at Adams College, Z. K. Matthews"; we've only just introduced Matthews so we don't need this much contextualization. Another wordy sentence from further down: "The Natal ANC made agreements to make their preparations for" -- surely "agreed to prepare for" would do?
 Done
  • "described the purpose of the society as a means to preserve": a means is not a purpose. Perhaps "described the purpose of the society as the preservation of"?
 Done
  • "have the Zulu royal family be recognized as Paramount": what does this mean? Does the capitalization of "Paramount" indicate some special meaning?
 Done. I wanted to convey that the Zulu Society wanted the government of South Africa to recognize the Zulu royal family as official leaders of the Zulu people. Just used really bad wording. I changed it now.
  • "His salary at Adams College was enough to send home to support his family": as written this means he sent it all home; presumably this should say something like "His salary at Adams College was enough for him to send money home to support his family".
 Done
  • "The peaceful march in Sharpeville ended with sixty-nine people killed by police fire. Along with three people killed in Langa." The second of these sentences has no main verb; is it meant to be connected to the first sentence?
 Done
  • "ceremoniously burned their passbooks": do you mean "ceremonially"? "Ceremoniously" would mean they did it in a ceremonious way, referring to their manner; "ceremonially" would mean they held a ceremony in which they did it. I would imagine it's the latter, but didn't want to make the change without checking.
 Done. I meant ceremonially.
  • "During a NEC Working Group session in June 1961": I know NEC is linked, but I would suggest spelling it out on first use.
 Done
  • "which reassured Luthuli's fears": one can reassure a person, but not their fears.
 Done. Changed to "which eased Luthuli's fears".
  • "was a popular view among the majority of White South Africans": without seeing the source, I suspect this should either be "was a popular view among White South Africans" or "was the view of a majority of White South Africans".
 Done. Changed to the latter.
  • Checking image licences, there are several I have questions about. Several use PD-South-Africa, which says the work must have been published before 1946 to be in the public domain in the US. They must be PD in the US as well as in South Africa to be on Commons. The following images appear not to meet that requirement:
 Done. Removed and replaced with File:Ohlange High School.jpg
  •  Done. Removed and replaced with File:Albert Lutuli Anefo.jpg. Also, do you have any ideas what I can caption the new photo for the infobox? The photo says it was taken on July 21st 1967, but that was the day he died so that's not accurate.
    It's a reliable source, but you're obviously right. I would just remove the date. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:31, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • File:Albert Lutuli.png -- dated 1920, but the publication link doesn't work, so the publication date is unclear. Commons gives a date of 3/3/2012, which might be the publication date.
 Done. Removed and replaced with File:LuthuliCropped.png
 Done. Removed and replaced with File:Palace of Justice (S Wierda) 1902 Church Square Pretoria 061.jpg
 Done. Removed and replaced with File:1933 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Norman Angell.png
    • File:Mandela1951Photo.jpg -- dated 1951
 Done. Removed and replaced with File:Nelson Mandela-2008.jpg
 Done Removed. Not replaced.
  • Three other images also have issues:
    • File:ZKMatthewsUFH.JPG -- the given licence is PD-old-70, but we don't know the photographer so we don't know their date of death.
 Done Removed and replaced with File:Z.K. Matthews Cropped.png
    • File:John L Dube 001.jpg -- this has PD-old for South Africa, and PD-US for the US. The former requires that we know the date of death of the photographer, but in any case it would appear that PD-South-Africa is the right licence. For the US licence we would need a publication date, which is not given.
 Done Removed and replaced with File:JohnDube1891.png
  • The original poster is not out of copyright because it dates from 1952. A faithful photographic reproduction of a copyrighted work doesn't give the copyright to the photographer; the copyright remains with the copyright holder of the original work. So the photograph can't assign a licence. That means the copyright status of the image is the same as that of the poster, which is not specified, but is presumed not to be PD since it's after 1946. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:40, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Removed and replaced with File:Mahatma-Gandhi, studio, 1931.jpg Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Overall the article is in very good shape. I'll do spotchecks next, probably tomorrow. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The fixes all look fine; the only issue remaining above is the last image question. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:56, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

Spotchecks follow. Unfortunately I don't have access to any of the sources so I'll have to ask you to supply the relevant quotes.

  • FN 30 cites "Grants and gifts from the South African Native Affairs Department as well as the society's involvement with the Zulu royal house led to its demise as it collapsed in 1946. The inability of the Teachers' Association and the Zulu Society to lead to any meaningful change caused Luthuli to reject the government as a co-operative partner." Can you quote the supporting text from the source, as I don't have access?
    Luthuli expressed in his autobiography his perception that, in addition to the grant in aid and office space accepted from the Native Affairs Department in Pietermartizburg, the society's involvement in the politics of the Zulu royal house fostered its demise. The inability of the Teachers' Association and Zulu Society to initiate any meaningful change spurred Luthuli to reject the government as a co-operative partner.
    Verified, but the second sentence is too closely paraphrased; see WP:CLOP. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 158 cites "Following his Nobel Peace Prize win, Luthuli was in a position of international renown for his nonviolence despite the concurrent sabotage operations of uMkhonto we Sizwe." Can you quote the supporting text?
On the night of December 15, 1961, as Luthuli and his wife returned to South Africa five days after his nobel acceptance, ANC members of a new military wing known as Umkhonto weSizwe (Spear of the nation, or MK) set off the explosive charges that marked the start of their armed struggle. Vinson 13
When Albert Luthuli, president of the African national Congress (ANC), South Africa’s leading anti-apartheid organization, became the first African-born recipient of the nobel Peace Prize in December 1961, the world celebrated his advocacy of nonviolent civil disobedience. The prize signaled international recognition for his Gandhian strategy to end apartheid Vinson 11
  • FN 146 cites "The stated goal of uMkhonto we Sizwe was to cripple South Africa's economy without bloodshed and force the government into negotiating." Can you quote the supporting text?
    But MK sabotage was to be supplemental to ongoing political action and aim to cripple the national economy without collateral bloodshed, raise wider awareness of apartheid intransigence, and force a shaken government to the negotiating table.
    There are some similarities to the original text but I think this is OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 34 cites "Luthuli then founded the Natal and Zululand Bantu Cane Growers' Association, where he served as chairman." Can you quote the supporting text?
The response was not universal. But we were able to found the Natal and Zululand Bantu Cane Growers' Association. For the first time we were able to make united representations to those who controlled our interests. I became Chairman of this body which included on its Executive such men as the Rev. A. Zulu (now assistant bishop in troubled Pondoland), and Ackroyd Mvuyana.
  • FN 106 cites "Luthuli admitted that the Charter had socialist clauses but denied that it reflected a Soviet Union-style of communism." Can you quote the supporting text?
    Luthuli reaffirmed his view that the Freedom Charter had socialist clauses in it, but denied that it reflected a “Moscow communistic out-look.”
    Verified, but too closely paraphrased. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 91 cites "Following the expiration of his ban, Luthuli continued to attend and speak at numerous anti-apartheid conferences". Can you quote the supporting text?
    Shortly after his ban expired at the end of May, he travelled to Uitenhage where he addressed the annual conference of the Cape Provincial Congress. Immediately thereafter, he travelled to Johannesburg to attend a Resist Apartheid Conference.
    Suggesting cutting "numerous"; the source only names two conferences. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 85 cites "The members elected Nelson Mandela as Luthuli's deputy. Moroka's departure and Luthuli's election victory once again brought to the fore the ANCYL's support for a candidate they believed would implement their programmes and goals." Can you quote the supporting text?
    In December 1952, a month after his dismissal as a tribal chief, Albert Luthuli was elected president general of the ANC on the shoulders of the ANCYL. The membership elected Nelson Mandela as Luthuli's deputy. Potlako Leballo (1915-1986), the future Pan-Africanist leader, formally nominated Luthuli. Moroka's ousting and Luthuli's election brought to the fore the ANCYL's support for a candidate it believed would implement its programmes and objectives. In the past Xuma, Moroka and Champion had all been dispensed with when the ANCYL felt their flexibility had been exhausted. It was not the last time that younger, more militant and increasingly impatient elements in the ANC would manoeuvre their president out of office.
    Too closely paraphrased. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 60 cites "When John Dube suffered a stroke in 1945, A. W. G. Champion succeeded him as president of the Natal ANC following an election. Luthuli went on to serve on Champion's executive. Members of the ANC Youth League, which was founded in 1944, grew discontented with Champion's leadership." Can you quote the supporting text?
    When John Dube suffered a stroke in 1945, Allison Champion succeeded him as Natal president after electorally defeating another conservative leader, the Reverend A. Mtimkulu. During the chaos of the meeting that elected him, Luthuli leapt to the stage to establish order and found himself unexpectedly appointed as acting chair of the meeting. Under Champion's leadership, Luthuli served on his executive. Couper 53
    However, the members of the Youth League, which was founded in 1944, grew dissatisfied with Champion's style of leadership. In 1949 the Youth League had its Programme of Action adopted by the national body. It introduced a new strategy for opposing government policy. The former approach of deputations and lobbying was to be replaced by a more forthright campaign of boycotts, 'stay at home', non-cooperation and even strikes. Champion did not support this new course of action, preferring rather to maintain Natal's separateness and putting the Zulu cause in Natal first. Pillay 12
    Too closely paraphrased.
     Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:48, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The spotchecks show that the sources support the text in the article (though I suggest a one-word change), but several are too closely paraphrased. Close paraphrasing is a showstopper for a GA nomination; it can be difficult to get away from the original form of words used by a source, but we have to do it. I would suggest that you fix the ones listed above, and when those are addressed, take a look through the rest of the article to eliminate any other examples of close paraphrasing. When you've done that I'll do another spotcheck. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I went through some sections to see which sentences should be paraphrased again. I mainly focused on his later years, but tried to cover any place that I remember poorly paraphrasing. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. I'll do another round of spotchecks next; everything else is fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:09, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second round of spotchecks

Can you supply the supporting text for these?

  • FN 14 cites "As chief, Martin was guardian over many relatives and children, which led to Luthuli having a pleasant childhood with friends of his own age."
    As chief he was guardian over many relatives and children so that Albert had a pleasant time with companions of his own age.
    This is too closely paraphrased. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 01:55, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 179 cites "Newspaper articles reported that Luthuli's ability to read and write had significantly declined, and he mostly spent his time listening to the radio."
    The scraps of paper found in the Luthuli Papers confirm accounts in newspaper articles published in mid-1967 that Luthuli was not able to do much reading or writing and spent most of his time listening to the radio.
    The second half is too closely paraphrased. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 01:55, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 155 cites "The attitude of South Africa's government as well as many White South Africans was hostile. Luthuli still had to apply for permission to receive the prize in Oslo, Norway on 10 December 1961. Minister of the Interior, Jan de Klerk initially refused to issue Luthuli a passport but after intense domestic and international pressure, the government finally issued him one."
    But state officials and hostile newspaper articles claimed that the award was a malicious attempt to embarrass South Africa and that Luthuli was as undeserving of the nobel Prize as Adolf Hitler—a rich irony, given the widespread right-wing admiration of the nazi leader. The government-controlled South African Broadcasting Company (SABC) broadcast a defamatory radio program about Luthuli, and Minister of the interior Jan de Klerk initially refused to issue Luthuli a passport to travel to Oslo. This was no idle threat, since Luthuli was already “a prisoner in my own land”: earlier in 1961, the government had twice refused to allow him to travel to the eastern Cape to accept the Christopher Gell Award for his activism. After intense domestic and international pressure, the government finally issued a passport, but declared bitterly that Luthuli’s honor had “debased” the nobel and was not “based on merit, but instead to further propaganda objectives, which must necessarily rob the Nobel Peace Award of all its high esteem.” They also refused Luthuli’s request to attend Tanganyika’s independence ceremonies en route to Oslo.
    Reuses the phrase "intense domestic and international pressure" but I think that's probably OK as it's hard to rephrase. You might put it in quotes.
  • FNs 97, 100 & 101 cite "After convening a secret meeting due to Luthuli's ban,[97] the Congress of the People took place in Kliptown, Johannesburg, in June 1955"
    Hoping to regain the momentum from the Defiance Campaign, the ANC convened a secret meeting in December 1954 with about forty Congress allies. So that Luthuli could attend, they met in a rural school for Indians near Stanger. [97]
    The Congress of the People meeting at Kliptown on June 26, 1955, was a joyous celebration of South Africa’s multiracial, democratic possibilities. [100]
    The Congress of the People took place in Kliptown, Johannesburg [101]
    Reuses "the Congress of the People took place in Kliptown, Johannesburg" but I think that's a standard form of words that would be hard to rephrase, so this is OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 71 cites "Beginning in June, around 8500 volunteers" (of the ANC and SAIC).
    Beginning in June, and in three stages gradually increasing in intensity, disciplined and trained volunteers of the ANC and the South African Indian Congress (SAIC), led by Mandela as National Volunteer-in-Chief, began systematically to disobey unjust and oppressive discriminatory laws thus inviting arrest, assault and penalty. Couper 55
    Eight thousand five hundred carefully chosen volunteers, drilled in the methods of non-violent resistance Legum 59. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 22:57, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No problems. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:12, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Replies above; one and a half of these had close paraphrasing problems. A spotcheck needs to come back clean, or very nearly so, for me to be able to pass the article. If I find problems in the next spotchecks I'll have to fail the article; you can then fix those and renominate and another editor will do a review. Can you fix the ones I found, and let me know when you're ready for me to do some more spotchecks? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have gone through and fixed the ones on here. You can perform the next round of spotchecks. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 01:55, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Third round of spotchecks

Can you post the supporting text for these?

  • FN 10 cites "After the death of ABM missionary Aldin Grout in 1894, the town surrounding the mission station was renamed Groutville.
    The ABM was a Congregationalist enterprise that had begun its work in southern Africa in 1834. Missionary Aldin Grout founded the Umvoti mission station (the small town that grew up there was renamed Groutville following his death in 1894), where Albert’s paternal grandparents, Ntaba ka Madunjini and Titisi Mthethwa, were his first Christian converts.
  • FN 13 cites "In Martin's traditional Zulu household, Luthuli completed chores expected of a Zulu boy his age such as fetching water, herding, and building fires."
    Nozililo sent Albert back to Groutville for schooling, where he lived in the orderly and deeply Christian household of his uncle Martin and his wife, who were also guardians to many other relatives and children. Martin was Groutville’s first democratically elected chief, translator and interpreter for the Zulu royal house, secretary to the Zulu king Dinizulu, and a cofounder of both the natal native Congress in 1901 and the South African native national Congress (later renamed the African national Congress) in 1912, groups that agitated for greater African political rights and land ownership. Serving until 1921, Martin provided Albert with a model for the Groutville chieftainship and an early exposure to African politics. Albert also learned Zulu traditions and performed the typical duties of a Zulu child: building nighttime fires to keep the household warm, herding cattle, weeding crops, and fetching water.
  • FN 31 cites "Despite making little progress in achieving their stated goals, the association is remembered for their opposition to the Chief Inspector for Native Education in Natal, Charles Loram, and his proposal that Africans be educated in "practical functions" and left to "develop along their own lines". Loram's position would serve as the ideological basis for the National Party's Bantu Education policy."
    After four years of preoccupation with ‘material matters’, the association had made little, if any, progress. One of the few things it is remembered for is its vigorous objection towards Charles Loram’s proposal in 1921, in which he suggested Africans be educated in practical and utilitarian functions. For Luthuli, Loram’s idea that people should ‘develop along their own lines’ served as the predecessor to the National Party’s Bantu Education that enforced inferior education on all people of colour.
  • FN 59 cites "In August 1946, Luthuli, along with other councilors, objected to the government's use of force to quell a large strike by African mineworkers."
    With the support of his fellow councilors, Luthuli protested the state’s use of coercive force in suppressing a miners' strike, condemning “the reactionary character of the Union native Policy,” which exposed the “government’s post war continuation of a policy of fascism which is the antithesis of the letter and the spirit of the Atlantic Charter and the United nations Charter.” Vinson 31
    It should be noted that the decision to adjourn indefinitely was not an impromptu response to the brutal quashing of the strike staged by African mineworkers on 4 August 1946 (in defiance of laws that expressly outlawed strikes by African workers), as has been claimed. Evans 187
  • FN 9 cites "With more restrictions put in place, the ANC leaders decided to end the campaign in January 1953."
    Congress terminated the Campaign in January 1953. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 02:31, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:07, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This round of spotchecks came up clean. Passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:45, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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